Jorginho didn't cost us the FA Cup at all. He did however cost us at least a point vs Arsenal and he was a big factor to why we lost when we conceded 5 goals. So he's becoming more inconsistent in recent times but anything other than that is just reaching. I still believe that we lack a player on that position, I would be really happy if we had the power to sign Ndidi.

52 minutes ago, PloKoon13 said:

For all of Jorginho's really good form during the Champions' League run, and in some of our more impressive league performances, that's twice in a week that his limitations have sorely cost us. And this is without bringing up the debacle against West Brom...

While I am thankful for his contribution under Tuchel, he remains an incredibly flawed player, and would still be the first part of our current starting XI that we should be looking to upgrade. Our current options at centre mid are clearly insufficient, even when only playing two of them at a time.

Tuchel is a remarkably intelligent and capable manager, surely as good as we're going to get at the current moment in time. Invest in him and allow him to take a couple of years to build a system that he thinks will win. One thing we should certainly avoid: don't make the mistake we have made so many, many times before which ends up with us having a weird mélange of a squad, each constituent part of it created to fulfil a different vision.

That said, what is (and always has been) plain: Jorginho is not good enough to be a consistent starter for a side aiming to be the best in Europe.

Completely agree Plokkers. And make no mistake Jorginho is the easiest player in our regular starting XI to upgrade.

In fact I would predict that even his staunchest supporters wouldn't miss him within a few weeks of him leaving.

58 minutes ago, just said:

Completely agree Plokkers. And make no mistake Jorginho is the easiest player in our regular starting XI to upgrade.

In fact I would predict that even his staunchest supporters wouldn't miss him within a few weeks of him leaving.

Last time Lampard tried that it didn't go that well at all. At some point we have to face the fact that we need a new DM regardless of Jorginho. 

He was brought in for Sarri pure and simple. That chain smoking superstitious as F mug is long gone and we’re stuck with his pet. He occasionally shows up,  Kova is far  superior in the double pivot. Oh how we could have used him  in  these last few matches. 

14 hours ago, General said:

He was brought in for Sarri pure and simple. That chain smoking superstitious as F mug is long gone and we’re stuck with his pet. He occasionally shows up,  Kova is far  superior in the double pivot. Oh how we could have used him  in  these last few matches. 

Jorginho is World class in his own right like he showed against Real Madrid and MaCity. No one was calling for Jorginhos head until our last 2 matches. The problem is when he is man marked as this disrupts our build up as seen in the games against Arsenal and Leicester. Our players should do more work off the ball to make themselves an option for Jorginho instead of just expecting a pass to feet. I think Jorgi really misses Kova when he is man marked because Kova is smart enough to create space for himself in that position.

I still think we need an upgrade on Jorginho in the summer as well as many other positions

      

5 minutes ago, The Don Antonio said:

Jorginho is World class in his own right like he showed against Real Madrid and MaCity. No one was calling for Jorginhos head until our last 2 matches. The problem is when he is man marked as this disrupts our build up as seen in the games against Arsenal and Leicester. Our players should do more work off the ball to make themselves an option for Jorginho instead of just expecting a pass to feet. I think Jorgi really misses Kova when he is man marked because Kova is smart enough to create space for himself in that position.

I still think we need an upgrade on Jorginho in the summer as well as many other positions

      

The term world class is thrown about far too easily these days. Jorgi is far from world class. I get what you mean that in a certain system he can do his role well, but world class is a massive reach.

Kante is the only world class player we have and IF a player is world class you certainly wouldn’t think you could upgrade them that easily. If they’re world class, they’re one of the best in the world - how do you upgrade that?

9 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

The term world class is thrown about far too easily these days. Jorgi is far from world class. I get what you mean that in a certain system he can do his role well, but world class is a massive reach.

Kante is the only world class player we have and IF a player is world class you certainly wouldn’t think you could upgrade them that easily. If they’re world class, they’re one of the best in the world - how do you upgrade that?

I get your point but Cesc Fabregas was world class and we still had to upgrade him because he had limitations . You say Kante is world class but we also have to upgrade him because he loses his world class powers once he finds himself in an attacking situation

11 minutes ago, The Don Antonio said:

I get your point but Cesc Fabregas was world class and we still had to upgrade him because he had limitations . You say Kante is world class but we also have to upgrade him because he loses his world class powers once he finds himself in an attacking situation

We didn’t upgrade Fabregas did we though? We had to replace him due to his age and his physical limitations were getting worse. We’ve still not even matched him. No one since has had the passing & vision he had. 
Are you just kidding about Kante? I’m gonna give it the benefit of the doubt and say you are.

4 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

We didn’t upgrade Fabregas did we though? We had to replace him due to his age and his physical limitations were getting worse. We’ve still not even matched him. No one since has had the passing & vision he had. 
Are you just kidding about Kante? I’m gonna give it the benefit of the doubt and say you are.

      Very true that we haven't upgraded Fabregas but I wasn't kidding about Kante. A lot of people were saying we should cash in on Kante because of his recent injuries, and on Kante I wasn't saying he isn't World class i was just showing that he had limitations offensively.

16 minutes ago, The Don Antonio said:

      Very true that we haven't upgraded Fabregas but I wasn't kidding about Kante. A lot of people were saying we should cash in on Kante because of his recent injuries, and on Kante I wasn't saying he isn't World class i was just showing that he had limitations offensively.

Out of curiosity, who do you think would be an upgrade on Kante at the moment?

25 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Out of curiosity, who do you think would be an upgrade on Kante at the moment?

To be honest I can only think of KDB right now so i agree with you about it being difficult to upgrade Kante but i wont mind another midfielder who obviously isnt going to be able to do the defensive work of Kante but can do a lot more offensively with final third passes , goals and assist.

17 hours ago, General said:

He was brought in for Sarri pure and simple. That chain smoking superstitious as F mug is long gone and we’re stuck with his pet. He occasionally shows up,  Kova is far  superior in the double pivot. Oh how we could have used him  in  these last few matches. 

If Jorginho was a bad player for us he would have been on loan just like we did with players that really couldn't do their role till someone buys him e.g. Bakayoko... Nobody forced 3 managers to play Jorginho.

We didn't really suffer from not having Kovacic overall, we suffered from Jorginho's mistake against Arsenal, one time in 3 seasons he made a big blunder like that.

I keep repeating the same over and over, Jorginho is the only one that plays that DM role for us, Lampard tried with Kante and it did not work. Too much focus on Jorginho being the Sarri buy, if anything the fact that he played for 2 managers after Sarri should be enough to stop that narrative.

Did I really just see someone claim Jorginho is world class ha ha.. in what exactly, pointing at players as they run past him? Dont be so ridiculous.

2 hours ago, The Don Antonio said:

To be honest I can only think of KDB right now so i agree with you about it being difficult to upgrade Kante but i wont mind another midfielder who obviously isnt going to be able to do the defensive work of Kante but can do a lot more offensively with final third passes , goals and assist.

Billy Gilmour. Better passer than Kante, Kovacic and Jorginho. 

Stick a more a pacy, physical, athletic DM than Jorginho beside him, (that won't be hard), and the world might be our lobster.

That's settled then. Let's give it a try.

1 hour ago, dkw said:

Did I really just see someone claim Jorginho is world class ha ha.. in what exactly, pointing at players as they run past him? Dont be so ridiculous.

Andrea Pirlo was world class right?  I am not saying he doesnt have his limitations I am just saying the same Jorginho was good against RealMadrid, Athletico, Liverpool, spurs and manu other games but he has 2 stinkers and the haters come out of the woodworks.

Jesus, just stop. Saying he's world class, comparing him to Pirlo, are you taking the piss? What does he do that's high quality, what one thing does he do that makes him stand out.

9 minutes ago, dkw said:

Jesus, just stop. Saying he's world class, comparing him to Pirlo, are you taking the piss? What does he do that's high quality, what one thing does he do that makes him stand out.

Everything he does is high quality which makes him a good squad player.

The problem, things he doesn't do. For example, shooting, assisting, winning 50/50 balls, running with the ball, you know the normal skills that every other footballer tries to be good at.

43 minutes ago, dkw said:

Jesus, just stop. Saying he's world class, comparing him to Pirlo, are you taking the piss? What does he do that's high quality, what one thing does he do that makes him stand out.

To be fair, they both are Italian. 

 

(I think that's where the comparison ends though)

59 minutes ago, dkw said:

Jesus, just stop. Saying he's world class, comparing him to Pirlo, are you taking the piss? What does he do that's high quality, what one thing does he do that makes him stand out.

To be fair to the Don I think he might have been comparing Pirlo with Gilmour, the er, Scottish Pirlo. I can see it myself. Same stature. Same calmness on the ball. Same vision. Lots of similarities. I think he has a point.

Just now, just said:

To be fair to the Don I think he might have been comparing Pirlo with Gilmour, the er, Scottish Pirlo. I can see it myself. Same stature. Same calmness on the ball. Same vision. Lots of similarities. I think he has a point.

Ah, McPirlo, quality player. Shame Tommy can't see that.

Excellent once again tonight.

Our top scorer in the league.

Good game tonight, dropped a level slightly with Kovacic which allowed them back in, they both though then regained focus.

Of Jorginho's 13 Premier League goals, 11 have been penalties [85%], the highest such ratio by any player with 10+ goals in the competition's history. Only Frank Lampard in 2009-10 (10) has scored more penalties in a single Premier League season for Chelsea than Jorginho in 2020-21 (7). Penalty specialist.