Jorginho is.... (well now was) a Blue

[axman2526]

3 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

What's wrong with the players I put, I read somewhere that Havertz never missed a penalty while he was playing in Germany and he tried to chip Courtois so he's ice cold, then I trust Mount to bury that like Lampard basically and to spice it up you got a left-footed player like Alonso that is basically a striker mentally speaking  

The Havertz in Germany being the key part their Gol.

The Werner in Germany would be a clear pen taker as well.

This Havertz is trying to do everything fancy so he would likely try and globetrotter pen and hit the bar. 

We dont do well with young players taking pens in shoot outs, Abraham against Pool, Mount against spurs etc.

Alonso wont be playing, Chilwell will we can be fairly sure. The latter cannot even pick out the right spot on a cross his pen would likely end up over the bar.

[Gol15]

Just now, axman2526 said:

The Havertz in Germany being the key part their Gol.

The Werner in Germany would be a clear pen taker as well.

This Havertz is trying to do everything fancy so he would likely try and globetrotter pen and hit the bar. 

We dont do well with young players taking pens in shoot outs, Abraham against Pool, Mount against spurs etc.

Alonso wont be playing, Chilwell will we can be fairly sure. The latter cannot even pick out the right spot on a cross his pen would likely end up over the bar.

Havertz is basically Ballack and Ballack scored from his penalty in 2008

Mount = Lampard so that's 2 goals in the shootout already but you're right he's still young maybe he shouldn't be the last one taking it...

OK Alonso won't be playing, maybe he comes as a sub maybe not, who cares...

So we agree that the captain Dave should take it at some point and Jorginho, so give me Mount and show me the last 2 players!

 

[axman2526]

Well as I was thinking back I remember Jorgi missed his last effort again City in a shoot out...so that does not fill me with confidence.

I would trust Giroud with one, and Emerson. We have 5 subs to use.

On another note how sad is it to have 3 German players are not one of them inspired confidence at taking pens...

[Dean]

57 minutes ago, just said:

Hhmm. Not sure that would have helped Dean. If Werner was taking the penalty you could have gone upstairs, shut the door and hidden under the duvet, but Werner would still probably have hit you with the ball.

Your safest position in that situation is between the goal posts.

😂 😂 I think this wins the forum today Just!

[weetee]

11 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

On another note how sad is it to have 3 German players are not one of them inspired confidence at taking pens...

That ship has sailed a long time ago. I remember one game of Tuchel's BVB side in  a cup shoot-out vs Bayern and Munich missed all five shots I think. IIRC two even slipped. Probably those should have jumped instead of running up to the ball..

[Deino]

Jorginho did well the last game. I can always trust him to take pens

[Guest Sindre]

Nice little video I came across that highlights one of Jorginho's best attributes.

A lot of people don't recognize the importance of someone who's able to do that. But he's brilliant at it.

[axman2526]

If we lose on the 29th the following accurately describes how several om here will talk about Jorginho

 

[Gol15]

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

If we lose on the 29th the following accurately describes how several om here will talk about Jorginho

 

To be fair I'm sure that at least one person said that our road to the CL final was a very easy one so in that sense win or lose if you want to undermine Jorginho's role in our CL campaign this year you can do it - If we win it was easy and anyone could have done it, if we lose we lost because Jorginho isn't good enough.

[axman2526]

3 hours ago, Gol15 said:

To be fair I'm sure that at least one person said that our road to the CL final was a very easy one so in that sense win or lose if you want to undermine Jorginho's role in our CL campaign this year you can do it - If we win it was easy and anyone could have done it, if we lose we lost because Jorginho isn't good enough.

Ah yes yes of course. I remember the post but not the poster, basically intimated the localndog and duck team could have won the matches we had in the CL cause they were so so easy.

[just]

12 hours ago, Sindre said:

Nice little video I came across that highlights one of Jorginho's best attributes.

A lot of people don't recognize the importance of someone who's able to do that. But he's brilliant at it.

It is exactly the thing I think Gilmour has already shown he is better at doing. I'm many of the examples in the clip Jorginho takes 3, 4, 5 touches to turn and play the ball. Billy, generally, does it faster.

Also Gilmour has already shown he can hit long passes consistently. This is because he has better accuracy and passing range than Jorginho. And crucially, he has the gift of seeing them early. Fabregas, Pirlo, Hoddle all had that same vision. For me, simply, Gilmour is the better, more creative, more exciting passer of the ball. And he can do it from deep or further up the pitch where space and time are harder to get.

[Argo]

13 hours ago, Sindre said:

Nice little video I came across that highlights one of Jorginho's best attributes.

A lot of people don't recognize the importance of someone who's able to do that. But he's brilliant at it.

I think in general the DLP isn't understood/appreciated in this country.

I'm not just talking about Jorginho, look at the way Thiago Alcantara has been spoke about.

[Guest Sindre]

1 hour ago, just said:

It is exactly the thing I think Gilmour has already shown he is better at doing. I'm many of the examples in the clip Jorginho takes 3, 4, 5 touches to turn and play the ball. Billy, generally, does it faster.

Also Gilmour has already shown he can hit long passes consistently. This is because he has better accuracy and passing range than Jorginho. And crucially, he has the gift of seeing them early. Fabregas, Pirlo, Hoddle all had that same vision. For me, simply, Gilmour is the better, more creative, more exciting passer of the ball. And he can do it from deep or further up the pitch where space and time are harder to get.

I think Gilmour is brilliant it as well. Still not as consistent as Jorginho though in my view.

Also think Jorginho at this point is far better at finding space for himself, and controlling the tempo and flow of the game. Gilmour is great when he has the ball but sometimes struggle to really get a hold in a game.

[Gol15]

15 hours ago, Sindre said:

Nice little video I came across that highlights one of Jorginho's best attributes.

A lot of people don't recognize the importance of someone who's able to do that. But he's brilliant at it.

 

I think Maddison said this last year about Jorginho but the clips are maybe mixed from this + last season.

Jorginho was our best passer when it came down to progressive passes (2/3 seasons now) and also most passes into the final third as well last season so if there is anyone that knows his thing it's Maddison since he plays more forward and has the job to stop the kind of passes while he's pressing that Jorginho should make while playing deeper. This is why Pep wanted a player like that and got him in Rodri later on that is arguably right now an even better deep-lying playmaker overall this season in comparison to Jorginho...

[weetee]

36 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

 

I think Maddison said this last year about Jorginho but the clips are maybe mixed from this + last season.

Jorginho was our best passer when it came down to progressive passes (2/3 seasons now) and also most passes into the final third as well last season so if there is anyone that knows his thing it's Maddison since he plays more forward and has the job to stop the kind of passes while he's pressing that Jorginho should make while playing deeper. This is why Pep wanted a player like that and got him in Rodri later on that is arguably right now an even better deep-lying playmaker overall this season in comparison to Jorginho...

With Rodri you can get away with playing him alone in front of a back four (of course a worldclass back four so that makes it obviously easier) but I guess not with Jorgi - or has he played that role before some time? - although I think he could very well be a "poor man's Busquets" (<- compliment) so if we could play Kova and Kante in front of him with both dropping deep situational to help out/support we could have one hell of a central midfield! Maybe we really need only that one single CB that could help sort this out it'd be amazing! Not really seeing it but then again, what do I know, right?

 

edit: we dearly miss a Jorgi back-up though, already. Not really seeing Gilmore playing that defensively tbh.

Edited May 21, 2021 by weetee

[Gol15]

3 minutes ago, weetee said:

With Rodri you can get away with playing him alone in front of a back four (of course a worldclass back four so that makes it obviously easier) but I guess not with Jorgi - or has he played that role before some time? - although I think he could very well be a "poor man's Busquets" (<- compliment) so if we could play Kova and Kante in front of him with both dropping deep situational to help out/support we could have one hell of a central midfield! Maybe we really need only that one singel CB that could help sort this out it'd be amazing! Not really seeing it but then again, what do I know, right?

 

edit: we dearly miss a Jorgi back-up though, already. Not really seeing Gilmore playing that defensively tbh.

We did play 4-3-3 a whole season under Sarri and we finished top 3 with Jorginho being there in front of D.Luiz and Rudiger/Christensen in almost all games, basically without him Sarri doesn't get to implement his system. Lampard was mixing in with a 4-2-3-1 and there the Jorginho-Kovacic duo started happening but in all systems Jorginho has always been playing that same role. Getting a world class CB improves our chances of challenging for the title that I'm really convinced about and that's regardless all other players in the squad.

I personally think that Gilmour has the skillset more similar to Kovacic, he goes forward and runs with the ball so he's more like a CM to me and right now he gets in trouble while trying to defend so not sure if he even wants to spend time as a sitting DM.

[weetee]

10 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

We did play 4-3-3 a whole season under Sarri and we finished top 3 with Jorginho being there in front of D.Luiz and Rudiger/Christensen in almost all games, basically without him Sarri doesn't get to implement his system. Lampard was mixing in with a 4-2-3-1 and there the Jorginho-Kovacic duo started happening but in all systems Jorginho has always been playing that same role. Getting a world class CB improves our chances of challenging for the title that I'm really convinced about and that's regardless all other players in the squad.

I personally think that Gilmour has the skillset more similar to Kovacic, he goes forward and runs with the ball so he's more like a CM to me and right now he gets in trouble while trying to defend so not sure if he even wants to spend time as a sitting DM.

Agreed about Gilmore. He's mostly really unfortunate (well, blessed with lots of talent to start with) to play in such a squad. It's just brutal to find your way in there in such a crucial position. He'll get more minutes for sure next season if he stays but he has basically to compete with Kova, Kanté and occasionally even Mount for a spot (although the latter is partly down to the three subs thing in UK I imagine and partly because TT sees Mounts deeper play, he already drops deep situational anyway, helpful when we are chasing a goal.

I also agree about the rest and my sole "worry" is or would be in case that we really signed one and changed our system accordingly we are super dependent on more or less one player (+ Jorginho who has no real back-up right now, maybe Christensen could help out the odd game? but I wouldn't really want to see that happening). Of course one could say we'd just revert back to our current system/formation.

 

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by weetee

[Gol15]

5 minutes ago, weetee said:

Agreed about Gilmore. He's mostly really unfortunate (well, blessed with lots of talent to start with) to play in such a squad. It's just brutal to find your way in there in such a crucial position. He'll get more minutes for sure next season if he stays but he has basically to compete with Kova, Kanté and occasionally even Mount for a spot (although the latter is partly down to the three subs thing in UK I imagine and partly because TT sees Mounts deeper play, he already drops deep situational anyway, helpful when we are chasing a goal.

I also agree about the rest and my sole "worry" is or would be in case that we really signed one and changed our system accordingly we are super dependent on more or less one player (+ Jorginho who has no real back-up right now, maybe Christensen could help out the odd game? but I wouldn't really want to see that happening). Of course one could say we'd just revert back to our current system/formation.

 

 

Well this is why I can't help but to not like the rumor about Tuchel wanting to sign Verratti... I would accept it, he's the boss but when we already have Kovacic/Gilmour/Kante there why would we spend on Verratti and not on a real DM that would compete with Jorginho for the starting lineup? Far more viable to get a DM and to further give minutes to Gilmour in a healthy rotation there with Kovacic and Kante and that would be a more balanced squad. It's clear that Kante shouldn't play a million games in a row at this point anyway. I think Tuchel had Mount playing deeper in a few games now and I don't think that he was that good, for me Gilmour should be getting those minutes.

[strider6004]

I think you need to trust the manager especially when he is one of the best.

Kante has been injury prone the last couple of seasons and he is getting older for a box to box midfielder.

Kovacic has good ball skills and athleticism yet is unable to shoot decently.

Gilmour like Jorginho lacks speed around the pitch and like Jorginho seems to play nearly all passes as short and on the ground. I mention the passing in contrast to say a Fabregas.

I would think Gilmour like Mount and James needs to have regular match time and think that would best be earned on loan.

 

[weetee]

5 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Well this is why I can't help but to not like the rumor about Tuchel wanting to sign Verratti... I would accept it, he's the boss but when we already have Kovacic/Gilmour/Kante there why would we spend on Verratti and not on a real DM that would compete with Jorginho for the starting lineup? Far more viable to get a DM and to further give minutes to Gilmour in a healthy rotation there with Kovacic and Kante and that would be a more balanced squad. It's clear that Kante shouldn't play a million games in a row at this point anyway. I think Tuchel had Mount playing deeper in a few games now and I don't think that he was that good, for me Gilmour should be getting those minutes.

Same here. Are these rumors any credible though? Can't see PSG thinking about selling him to start with.. and if, that'd mean that at minimum one of Kova and Jorgi (or Kanté, I think he's one of the players Tuchel adores but who knows what the player plans after eventually winning the CL?) transfers out. Why? No idea, nor would I think it'll help us spending money there instead of other areas. He's super injury prone too unfortunately. I understand that Verratti isn't the most likable player there is but I kinda do..and if he's playing for your own team he's just amazing too watch, very entertaining! 😄  Anyway, let's assume Tuchel plays a 433 with Verratti/Jorgi/Kanté/Kova/Billy (+Mount) for the midfield..I mean why not? Could work no?

 

As for Mount, I agree that it didn't look good and that in theory Gilmore would have been the guy - it's unfortunate you can't sub five players. Think those were rather helpless situations too, but are you 100% convinced that he can't play there occasionally once they had a whole pre-season and some more training? I could imagine that and he's just amazing in his link up play that and also defensively dependable that he can almost play everywhere. But you have seen doing that more often so that's all more about me imagining things instead of a well educated guess.

[just]

33 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

 

Gilmour like Jorginho lacks speed around the pitch and like Jorginho seems to play nearly all passes as short and on the ground. I mention the passing in contrast to say a Fabregas.

 

I have seen the future strider. And it's Billy Gilmour and garlic bread.

 

[Munkunku]

Pat Nevin appreciates Jorginho - that’s enough for me. 

[weetee]

10 hours ago, Gol15 said:

... a real DM that would compete with Jorginho for the starting lineup...

Kinda off topic but:

Zaphoid, a user I think uses this forum as well, wrote in the caf that Aurelien Tchouameni is said to be almost a done deal. Would be exactly what we need imo. I hope nobody underestimates the L1 too - abundance of young talents that it's ridiculous. Very physical too so at least that part shouldn't be too hard to adapt here as well. Great signing I'd say - new coach would speak fluent French as well. 😉 Was hoping Chelsea would be going in for the serious French talents over there because TT will likely have an excellent reputation over there. Played plenty of youngster at his time there too.

[ForeverCarefree]

Gone from being one of our best players under Tuchel to a complete liability in the last month. 

Might be lucky to start the final next week. 

[Deino]

Bench him and sell him. Should not be anywhere near the team moving forward.