4 minutes ago, Wearyourcolours said:

Don’t delude yourself, we played a very out of sorts Athletico, Porto who everyone wanted to draw, and the worst Real team in years!

If you don’t think that’s an easy path to the final, then you’re a very confused person.

Christ the most annoying part about a bad result is the rewriting of history and downplaying every achievement.

9 minutes ago, Wearyourcolours said:

Don’t delude yourself, we played a very out of sorts Athletico, Porto who everyone wanted to draw, and the worst Real team in years!

If you don’t think that’s an easy path to the final, then you’re a very confused person.

You're not totally wrong about these teams not being the absolute best in Europe, Atletico and Real (and Barca) are currently playing a game of who wants to lose La Liga.

But we aren't in the best shape either, mid season change of coach, misfiring striker, young players still to grow and get better. We are far from the finished article ourselves so we didn't beat easy teams, we beat our equivalents.

Normal service has been resumed then...

He's knackered.

He's our only midfielder you can trust to stay fit and have played a ridiculous amount of football the last month.

My opinion of Jorginho is that he is very useful when the other teams do not press him with intensity (other European teams do not tend to play high intensity press football as in the PL), but he is not capable of shaking off the press and therefore his game becomes a liability. But, he is our only sitting back midfield as the other three tend to roam forward leaving the defence exposed. We need a proper DM that sits back and is capable of beating the pressure so we can sit Jorginho on the bench.

15 hours ago, Oli said:

Would of much rather played Gilmour today or that Jorgi was replaced much earlier. The last 20 minutes after all thos substitutions, was the only time we looked threatening. Unfortunately Jorginho and Alonso just did nothing all game, and when playing with a back 3 aswell, we were going nowhere fast.

Don't agree with this we had about three chances in the first half to score, Leicester had one.

Jorgi has been targeted recently and it might be because he is better with Kovacic. Hopefully we strengthen in this are over the summer.

He wasn't responsible for the goal either, he closed down Albrighton who passed sidewards to Tielemans for the long range shot.

2 hours ago, Strider6003 said:

Don't agree with this we had about three chances in the first half to score, Leicester had one.

Jorgi has been targeted recently and it might be because he is better with Kovacic. Hopefully we strengthen in this are over the summer.

He wasn't responsible for the goal either, he closed down Albrighton who passed sidewards to Tielemans for the long range shot.

Two gentlemen disagree with that.

https://www.teamtalk.com/news/pundits-jorginho-axe-cl-final-blame-fa-cup-leicester-winner

2 minutes ago, just said:

Two gentlemen disagree with that.

https://www.teamtalk.com/news/pundits-jorginho-axe-cl-final-blame-fa-cup-leicester-winner

I don't rate Rio Ferdinand as a pundit and Joe Cole is still firmly rooted in the Frank Lampard camp, IMO.

Just now, Strider6003 said:

I don't rate Rio Ferdinand as a pundit and Joe Cole is still firmly rooted in the Frank Lampard camp, IMO.

Well that neatly shoots down their views on it then. No need for further analysis.

4 hours ago, Wearyourcolours said:

Don’t delude yourself, we played a very out of sorts Athletico, Porto who everyone wanted to draw, and the worst Real team in years!

If you don’t think that’s an easy path to the final, then you’re a very confused person.

There is no easy path to a CL final. But ok if you prefer to undermine our squad that's your decision, you're not the first Chelsea fan to do so either. I choose not to.

One thing that struck me about the goal we conceded as Jorginho struggled to cover Albrighton and Tielemens and failed was Kante.

I only saw this due to a photograph taken further up the pitch, Kante had stopped running and just put his hand up in the air claiming handball. 

This is why despite his limitations I don't blame Jorginho.

2 hours ago, Strider6003 said:

One thing that struck me about the goal we conceded as Jorginho struggled to cover Albrighton and Tielemens and failed was Kante.

I only saw this due to a photograph taken further up the pitch, Kante had stopped running and just put his hand up in the air claiming handball. 

This is why despite his limitations I don't blame Jorginho.

Making stuff up isn't helping strider.  

When the pass from James hits Perez, Kante, (who James was trying to pass to), is another 15 yards forwards of the ball at least. Kante sees the handball, appeals straight away and starts to run back. It's laughable to suggest Kante could have closed  Tielemens down. Jorginho on the other hand, well?

Watch the first 30 seconds of the video. Ferdinand and Joe Cole are spot on with their analysis. You, are not.

 

Edited May 16, 20215 yr by just

33 minutes ago, just said:

Making stuff up isn't helping strider.  

When the pass from James hits Perez, Kante, (who James was trying to pass to), is another 15 yards forwards of the ball at least. Kante sees the handball, appeals straight away and starts to run back. It's laughable to suggest Kante could have closed  Tielemens down. Jorginho on the other hand, well?

Watch the first 30 seconds of the video. Ferdinand and Joe Cole are spot on with their analysis. You, are not.

 

Check this out at 1.03 Jorginho clearly could not get to Tielemans the space was too wide.

 

Just now, Strider6003 said:

Check this out at 1.03 Jorginho clearly could not get to Tielemans the space was too wide.

 

He can't get to him because he has no pace. He doesn't even try, (great pointing though), and he is a helluva lot closer than Kante When the ball gets to Tielemens.

It's the blind protection of Jorginho and trying to divert attention on to someone else that's particularly grating.

23 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

Check this out at 1.03 Jorginho clearly could not get to Tielemans the space was too wide.

 

He never even tried , ran parallel to him instead of attempting to close him down. If had been a reversal with Kante in his position I'd have expected Kante to get close enough to him for him to have hurried his shot

Death, taxes, and Jorginho's lack of pace. 

9 minutes ago, BordeauxBlue said:

Death, taxes, and Jorginho's lack of pace. 

Yes blame Jorginho for the goal now as well, death taxes and scapegoating Jorginho...

It's a bit ridiculous to blame Jorginho for the goal. Not every goal has to have some individual culpable (except the ref!).

We can blame Jorginho for not using the ball as well as he should have during the game. Many times he could have passed into forward pockets but he passed backwards or sideways.

Edited May 16, 20215 yr by ashwin
typo

6 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Yes blame Jorginho for the goal now as well, death taxes and scapegoating Jorginho...

Nobody is blaming or scapegoating Jorginho Gol. Charriere's point is absolutely spot on. If Kante was in Jorginho's position when the ball reaches Tielemens Kante has the pace to at least get close and perhaps make him hurry the shot. 

Jorginho doesn't even try and the reason he doesn't goes back to my observations on the last page. His physical limitations define his game. He KNOWS he has no pace. He KNOWS he can't get there. So he KNOWS it's not worth him trying. We KNOW it too and we have to accept it.

But for strider to try and deflect attention away from Jorginho and suggest Kante was somehow at fault, that is just laughable.

 

27 minutes ago, just said:

Nobody is blaming or scapegoating Jorginho Gol. Charriere's point is absolutely spot on. If Kante was in Jorginho's position when the ball reaches Tielemens Kante has the pace to at least get close and perhaps make him hurry the shot. 

Jorginho doesn't even try and the reason he doesn't goes back to my observations on the last page. His physical limitations define his game. He KNOWS he has no pace. He KNOWS he can't get there. So he KNOWS it's not worth him trying. We KNOW it too and we have to accept it.

But for strider to try and deflect attention away from Jorginho and suggest Kante was somehow at fault, that is just laughable.

 

I don't agree with you at all and as soon as you have that "IF" statement there it's clear to me that it's all just pure 100% fantasy and speculation, same thing with the "IF Mendy was there and not Kepa"...

That's all I have to say on the matter, Tielemans got a pass and took the shot in less than 3 seconds, nobody could have stopped him from shooting that ball.

3 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I don't agree with you at all and as soon as you have that "IF" statement there it's clear to me that it's all just pure 100% fantasy and speculation, same thing with the "IF Mendy was there and not Kepa"...

That's all I have to say on the matter, Tielemans got a pass and took the shot in less than 3 seconds, nobody could have stopped him from shooting that ball.

I think if Silva had of closed down Tielemans quickly we might have prevented it yet doubt Silva knew of his shooting ability as it is not often he scores a goal like that. 

 

30 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

I think if Silva had of closed down Tielemans quickly we might have prevented it yet doubt Silva knew of his shooting ability as it is not often he scores a goal like that. 

 

Part of the blame for sure is on Silva, and I really hope we as a team defend with more bravery and sensibility in our remaining games. If you play with 3 cbs surely the free one against a front two should close down any advancing shooter more quickly than that. It was really poor from a player of his experience.

6 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Part of the blame for sure is on Silva, and I really hope we as a team defend with more bravery and sensibility in our remaining games. If you play with 3 cbs surely the free one against a front two should close down any advancing shooter more quickly than that. It was really poor from a player of his experience.

Yes. And yet it's odd that Jorginho is suddenly to blame for this as well. He had a bad game but this goal certainly wasn't his fault.

Since when did we decide that analyses by studio pundits was the ultimate in logical reasoning?

Such goals happen, and no one is necessarily to blame. But if someone has to be blamed, they are Thiago Silva and Kante. Both knew about Jorginho's limitation and that he cannot reach the person. And yet neither of them closed down Tielemans. Kante, on the other hand, could easily have caught up of he hadn't slowed down holding his hand up.

Not that I would blame them either, this goad did not come from any exceptional mistake or lack of effort.

If anybody is to blame for the Leicester goal it is Reece James. Not Kante, not Jorgi, not Silva, not Kepa, but the sloppy pass that initiated it.

That being said, Jorgi doesn't offer much against teams that sit back and defend. Offensively, he can't dribble or break the press and he can't pick out a pass since there is no space for our attackers to exploit in behind. Defensively, if he doesn't manage to intercept a ball through his superb positioning it's like he isn't even on the pitch, most players are faster with the ball than he is without. It's no coincidence he had good games against Real and City.

The problem with this is that there are very few teams that won't sit back against us and we can't just play him against the likes of Liverpool, Barcelona and Bayern. To me he's the very definition of a luxury player if you don't build an entire team around him (which only Sarri tried to do) and similar to Zyiech his physical attributes are ok for other leagues, but not for the PL.

For all of Jorginho's really good form during the Champions' League run, and in some of our more impressive league performances, that's twice in a week that his limitations have sorely cost us. And this is without bringing up the debacle against West Brom...

While I am thankful for his contribution under Tuchel, he remains an incredibly flawed player, and would still be the first part of our current starting XI that we should be looking to upgrade. Our current options at centre mid are clearly insufficient, even when only playing two of them at a time.

Tuchel is a remarkably intelligent and capable manager, surely as good as we're going to get at the current moment in time. Invest in him and allow him to take a couple of years to build a system that he thinks will win. One thing we should certainly avoid: don't make the mistake we have made so many, many times before which ends up with us having a weird mélange of a squad, each constituent part of it created to fulfil a different vision.

That said, what is (and always has been) plain: Jorginho is not good enough to be a consistent starter for a side aiming to be the best in Europe.

Edited May 17, 20215 yr by PloKoon13