1 hour ago, timetowaste said:

The notion of Gilmour being a replacement for Jorginho or Kante is crazy, I’m not even sure if he’s a premier league player at this point and if he is he certainly isn’t good enough for us, I’ll be surprised if he’s at the club in a couple of years to be honest

I’m not saying Gilmour should be a starting playing, if you read again my post, but to be developed and see where it goes.

 

37 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Gilmour had a few standout performances for us and has had some very decent showings for Scotland, but has struggled badly at Norwich and only time will tell as to whether he has the consistency in his game to play at the top level.

Right now I can see Gallagher in our starting 11 next season but not Billy.

The fact that he did have very good performances for us indicates that Norwich was a step too low and he was there surrounded by dogsh*t and would never be able to learn anything. It is just a testimony of a wrong loan rather than of Billy’s ability. He’d be much better off playing for a championship team than at Norwich.

1 hour ago, timetowaste said:

The notion of Gilmour being a replacement for Jorginho or Kante is crazy, I’m not even sure if he’s a premier league player at this point and if he is he certainly isn’t good enough for us, I’ll be surprised if he’s at the club in a couple of years to be honest

By the way, that is rich coming from someone that wanted to sell Mount and saw nothing wrong with Jorginho’s game on Wednesday. 

28 minutes ago, RMH said:

By the way, that is rich coming from someone that wanted to sell Mount and saw nothing wrong with Jorginho’s game on Wednesday. 

Yeah that’s exactly what I said 🙄

Edited April 10, 20223 yr by timetowaste

30 minutes ago, RMH said:

I’m not saying Gilmour should be a starting playing, if you read again my post, but to be developed and see where it goes.

 

The fact that he did have very good performances for us indicates that Norwich was a step too low and he was there surrounded by dogsh*t and would never be able to learn anything. It is just a testimony of a wrong loan rather than of Billy’s ability. He’d be much better off playing for a championship team than at Norwich.

I get that and agree to a point. But good players should adapt and stand out, whatever the situation. Look at Erikson at Brentford. Okay, he has years of experience, but despite the fact he doesn't have great players around him, he steps up and shows his quality. Gallagher was able to do it at West Brom and even more so at Palace, although granted, they are a much better side than Norwich.

Be a tough decision whether to look for a better loan move for Billy next season or bring him back, but I don't expect to see him start too often - even with Jorginho and others departing.

18 minutes ago, Nibs said:

I get that and agree to a point. But good players should adapt and stand out, whatever the situation. Look at Erikson at Brentford. Okay, he has years of experience, but despite the fact he doesn't have great players around him, he steps up and shows his quality. Gallagher was able to do it at West Brom and even more so at Palace, although granted, they are a much better side than Norwich.

Be a tough decision whether to look for a better loan move for Billy next season or bring him back, but I don't expect to see him start too often - even with Jorginho and others departing.

It’s not fair to compare Eriksson, who is a great player already developed, to a young player who has still to grow up and develop. But, Erikson has not been a stand out at Brentford. Yeah, they beat us and he scored, but has not taken Brentford up to the next level, in fact, they haven’t been doing very well until they played us. With Gallagher I can agree, but only this season he’s shown to be ready for regular play time with us. And only Sheffield Utd have been as bad as Norwich this season in the PL. In my opinion, it’s more down to Norwich than to Billy’s ability. I wouldn’t let him go until he’s given a proper chance.

2 minutes ago, RMH said:

It’s not fair to compare Eriksson, who is a great player already developed, to a young player who has still to grow up and develop. But, Erikson has not been a stand out at Brentford. Yeah, they beat us and he scored, but has not taken Brentford up to the next level, in fact, they haven’t been doing very well until they played us. With Gallagher I can agree, but only this season he’s shown to be ready for regular play time with us. And only Sheffield Utd have been as bad as Norwich this season in the PL. In my opinion, it’s more down to Norwich than to Billy’s ability. I wouldn’t let him go until he’s given a proper chance.

I agree, no way I would let him go. We need to move on a lot of players - Jorgi, Barkley, RLC, CHO. Gilmour certainly not one to move on but he might have to wait for chances.

Wrong thread

Edited April 10, 20223 yr by Bob stark

6 hours ago, Nibs said:

I agree, no way I would let him go. We need to move on a lot of players - Jorgi, Barkley, RLC, CHO. Gilmour certainly not one to move on but he might have to wait for chances.

If the squad gets thinner with Jorginho, Kante, Barkley, RLC and also Saul leaving... The doors are open for Billy to shine

 

I can't see them all leaving, but agree chance for Billy and to me, more importantly, Gallagher to make an impact.

Jorginho is a great player - his medal collection isn't a fluke.  But, I can't help but think just how much he slows us down.  Saints do play a high line, but we were willing to play a much earlier pass yesterday.  The recycle sideways passing somewhat comes when Jorginho plays, and is often how we then look slow against a low block.  I'd be ok with moving on and trying something different in midfield. 

We've been too lightweight in midfield for a while now ... we need some physicality/height/pace in there for sure.  Rice or Tchouameni would give us a better balance than Jorginho or Kante can offer us at the base of the midfield. TT has tried a few players there and none of them are quite right. Gilmour is not a good fit for the week in week out rigours of the the PL unfortunately - as proven at Norwich.

I'd be in favour of cashing in on Jorginho and Kante, selling Gilmour to Everton or back to Rangers, moving Barkley on to wherever, Saul returns to Atletico, and then we have the "what is RLC's best position and is he even good enough ?" conundrum LOL. TT even trying him at wing back now :-)

A complete rebuild of the midfield to include Kovacic, Mount, Gallagher + 3 others ... possibly Ampadu is one of them, as the back up DM to either Rice or Tchouameni. The final slot goes to a new "Fabregas" type player.

4 hours ago, PhilH930 said:

I can't see them all leaving, but agree chance for Billy and to me, more importantly, Gallagher to make an impact.

Jorginho is a great player - his medal collection isn't a fluke.  But, I can't help but think just how much he slows us down.  Saints do play a high line, but we were willing to play a much earlier pass yesterday.  The recycle sideways passing somewhat comes when Jorginho plays, and is often how we then look slow against a low block.  I'd be ok with moving on and trying something different in midfield. 

Excellent post.

With the likes of Havertz, Werner ,Pulisic, etc you need to take advantage of their pace. 

It’s nothing to do with Jorginho being a poor player he just isn’t a natural fit with the  players  with have that play in the advanced positions.

We saw on Saturday just how dynamic we are when we play the early forward ball but when Jorginho plays he almost demands the ball be it from the central defenders or indeed fellow midfielders which is all well and good but as we have seen time and time again once he gets closed down he is prone to losing possession 

 

 

 

 

 

25 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

We've been too lightweight in midfield for a while now ... we need some physicality/height/pace in there for sure.  Rice or Tchouameni would give us a better balance than Jorginho or Kante can offer us at the base of the midfield. TT has tried a few players there and none of them are quite right. Gilmour is not a good fit for the week in week out rigours of the the PL unfortunately - as proven at Norwich.

I'd be in favour of cashing in on Jorginho and Kante, selling Gilmour to Everton or back to Rangers, moving Barkley on to wherever, Saul returns to Atletico, and then we have the "what is RLC's best position and is he even good enough ?" conundrum LOL. TT even trying him at wing back now 🙂

A complete rebuild of the midfield to include Kovacic, Mount, Gallagher + 3 others ... possibly Ampadu is one of them, as the back up DM to either Rice or Tchouameni. The final slot goes to a new "Fabregas" type player.

Another top post.

I think it’s pretty obvious that Kante and as I said Jorginhos days are numbered and in terms of Berkeley and Saul they need likewise to be moved on.

Rice is being priced out of a transfer so it’s will be interesting how he reacts .Keep an eye on this one because he is entering the United protected phase of his contract and whilst unlikely to leave WHU on a Webster the threat of one often focuses minds 

 

The lad at Brighton seems the real deal and also Tielmans at Leicester is entering the last year of his contract and is said to be available at £25 million so may be worth a punt.

 

I think it's likely that Jorginho will leave this summer. But there is definitly going to be instances next season where we are going to miss him.

Us winning the Champions League with him as a mainstay in midfield was no fluke, likewise Italy at the Euros. We won't find a defensive midfielder who's a better passer than Jorginho but we may of course find one who's stronger in the tackle, air and general physicality so it will be a bit of give and take I suppose.

1 hour ago, Sindre said:

I think it's likely that Jorginho will leave this summer. But there is definitly going to be instances next season where we are going to miss him.

Us winning the Champions League with him as a mainstay in midfield was no fluke, likewise Italy at the Euros. We won't find a defensive midfielder who's a better passer than Jorginho but we may of course find one who's stronger in the tackle, air and general physicality so it will be a bit of give and take I suppose.

Jorginho has played here now under three managers and played often too so his attributes despite his weaknesses are valued.

As well as contributing to building our play out from defence he is good at winning fouls and has the odd assist.

It has been interesting (sometimes scary) watching RCL taking on that role.

 

 

Pulisic and Kante thread absolutely full with people talking about their disaster-class but nothing in here. Came on, couldn't even hit the target from 15 yards with what could easily have been a goal and then slowed our play and repeatedly played the ball out of play. 

I know that Tuchel didn't put him on to score, he wanted more control and more vision to play forward, but that chance was so poor. 

As a fresh player, who knows how to shoot properly, I expected him to hit the target at least. Kind of chances we cannot miss, doesn't matter in which game.

2 minutes ago, IliyaKrostin said:

I know that Tuchel didn't put him on to score, he wanted more control and more vision to play forward, but that chance was so poor. 

As a fresh player, who knows how to shoot properly, I expected him to hit the target at least. Kind of chances we cannot miss, doesn't matter in which game.

It was Ziyech taking a shot first and foremost that went to Jorginho, he tried to take it with his right foot but it bounced to his left and he took a fast shot with his weaker foot while there was somebody coming in with the sliding tackle, his shot went wide but if it was on target it would have been blocked. 

Kai Havertz, Pulisic and Ziyech had real chances to score that they should have scored, what Jorginho had was just an unexpected ball so blaming him for anything is just childish.

Come on Goal, he should have buried that. I know it came from a blocked shot, but come on, he's got to score that. This is Jorginho's thread, so no point saying it here, but I though Pulisic and Ziyech were as disappointing. Can't really fault Havertz for his miss when he gave his all during 120 minutes, tiredness played a part in his late missed chance.

4 minutes ago, RMH said:

Come on Goal, he should have buried that. I know it came from a blocked shot, but come on, he's got to score that. This is Jorginho's thread, so no point saying it here, but I though Pulisic and Ziyech were as disappointing. Can't really fault Havertz for his miss when he gave his all during 120 minutes, tiredness played a part in his late missed chance.

Do you expect him to score ?

 

24 minutes ago, RMH said:

Come on Goal, he should have buried that. I know it came from a blocked shot, but come on, he's got to score that. This is Jorginho's thread, so no point saying it here, but I though Pulisic and Ziyech were as disappointing. Can't really fault Havertz for his miss when he gave his all during 120 minutes, tiredness played a part in his late missed chance.

If he had that shot with the left on target it would have been blocked so I don't know what you're on about. Havertz is 100% in a real position to score from a freebie and yet you're more bothered by Jorginho that came on to play 15 minutes, ok.

1 minute ago, Gol15 said:

If he had that shot with the left on target it would have been blocked so I don't know what you're on about. Havertz is 100% in a real position to score from a freebie and yet you're more bothered by Jorginho that came on to play 15 minutes, ok.

21 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Do you expect him to score ?

 

Yes

2 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

If he had that shot with the left on target it would have been blocked so I don't know what you're on about. Havertz is 100% in a real position to score from a freebie and yet you're more bothered by Jorginho that came on to play 15 minutes, ok.

Yes, he should have scored that. I would not be more bothered by Jorginho's missing his chance than Havertz had Havertz just come on to the pitch. The reality is that Havertz had played well over 90 minutes with determination and intensity, while Jorginho had just come in. I expected much better from the substitutes, whether they are Jorginho or Ziyech or Pulisic, and if Havertz had been a substitute I would also have expected more too.

10 minutes ago, IliyaKrostin said:

So you didn't actually watch the game didn't you? LOL

6 minutes ago, RMH said:

Yes, he should have scored that. I would not be more bothered by Jorginho's missing his chance than Havertz had Havertz just come on to the pitch. The reality is that Havertz had played well over 90 minutes with determination and intensity, while Jorginho had just come in. I expected much better from the substitutes, whether they are Jorginho or Ziyech or Pulisic, and if Havertz had been a substitute I would also have expected more too.

What part of me saying that if he puts it on target that it gets blocked you didn't understand? Havertz should have scored a total free header, deal with it.