I agree that Jorginho have been a good player for us over the past 4 years but I feel it’s time to move him on. He doesn’t really suit Tuchel’s system, in fact it kind of exposes his weaknesses.

Don’t get me wrong, I think he’s a very good player but sometimes they just don’t fit and that is the case with Jorginho here.

I think it’s definitely best move for both parties if he goes. He can still have a successful career elsewhere and I hope he does.

He’s frustrating as hell. Good player on his day when playing certain kind of opposition, but he seems to have lost his form lately. At some point in the second half today he was in the midfield with metres ahead of him where he could run with the ball forward and he just stood there looking for someone to pass the ball when they were all covered. He should have just driven the ball forward rather than look for a pass as he had acres of space, he just doesn’t seem capable of doing that. Contrary to what some in here may think, im not against him or his role, I think he’s a good player and useful in some circumstances, but this season he has being mostly pants, tbh.

Lukaku is thankful for Jorgi, the one player that receives more stick from Chelsea fans than he does.

14 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Yea regardless of some takes here I think it's pretty obvious that Jorginho has been a good player for us, I mean if he hadn't been he wouldn't have been a key player under multiple managers but overall him signing for us has been a positive thing for the club despite not being able to compete with Man City and Liverpool for the title.

We will never compete for a title in England with a player like Jorginho as a regular starter. He simply isn't consistent enough and doesn't contribute enough over 90 minutes. I've said it before and as time goes on I'm even more convinced of it. If you want to challenge for a league title you don't buy Jorginho. Not saying for a second he is the only reason we haven't been in the running the past few years but, for me, for a team playing to win a title needs the rest of the team needs to do some carrying.

Just now, dansubrosa said:

I agree that Jorginho have been a good player for us over the past 4 years but I feel it’s time to move him on. He doesn’t really suit Tuchel’s system, in fact it kind of exposes his weaknesses.

Don’t get me wrong, I think he’s a very good player but sometimes they just don’t fit and that is the case with Jorginho here.

I think it’s definitely best move for both parties if he goes. He can still have a successful career elsewhere and I hope he does.

I can see that argument but at the same time I'm worried we'll go on for the second summer in a row break the bank for a stylistic misfit who on the face of it is here because he's a fan/PR signing.

 

44 minutes ago, Argo said:

I can see that argument but at the same time I'm worried we'll go on for the second summer in a row break the bank for a stylistic misfit who on the face of it is here because he's a fan/PR signing.

Who would you go for Argo to replace Jorginho? You have said before you feel we shouldn't always look for like for like replacements and I fully agree.

Even Reece James has had enough and moved him out to the pointless RCB position he was playing to take over in the middle for a period. 

29 minutes ago, just said:

Who would you go for Argo to replace Jorginho? You have said before you feel we shouldn't always look for like for like replacements and I fully agree.

At the risk of being accused of plumping for the fancy names my pipe dreams for a new midfield signing would be De Jong or Bellingham, realistically speaking I think Tielmens would be a very smart signing.

Every season he has been here he has gone through a slump in form, which is why I have always said that I don't think we can win the league with Jorginho as a regular starter. I think he has shown a lot of improvements under Tuchel and this season I think has been his best with us, but that isn't enough. From the start of the season up until mid February, he was one of the first names on the team sheet for me, but he's been really poor since then. He was passing the ball quicker and cleanly and I also thought that positionally he was excellent which was making up for his lack of strength. In recent months though, he doesn't look anywhere near as confident. His passing isn't clean, he's taking too long to get the ball moving and his touch is poor. He's inviting pressure on himself and finding himself in 2v1 situations which leads to an attack breaking down or him losing the ball.

All of our CM's are bit off at the moment. Kante has struggled all season apart from the odd game here and there where he shows his best, Jorginho's form has nose dived, Saul is rubbish, Loftus-Cheek is a good squad player but usually poor when he is given a run of starts and Kovacic keeps getting rotated in and out of the side for some odd reason. The only one I would be confident starting most games right now is Kovacic.

I was at the game just got back, have not posted in the match thread yet becasue i needed to come here straight away and say we cannot afford to play Jorginho in the final, Tuchel was going mental at him today for getting caught out on the ball, his time is up at the club.

We really need a CM who has an eye for a pass, like Cesc. Our forwards make lots of runs but they are just ignored all the time, or not even seen.

1 hour ago, coco said:

I was at the game just got back, have not posted in the match thread yet becasue i needed to come here straight away and say we cannot afford to play Jorginho 

Just stop there. He is trash.

9 minutes ago, dkw said:

Just stop there. He is trash.

One time in the match he was roasting James for passing to him.😃

3 hours ago, loz said:

We will never compete for a title in England with a player like Jorginho as a regular starter. He simply isn't consistent enough and doesn't contribute enough over 90 minutes. I've said it before and as time goes on I'm even more convinced of it. If you want to challenge for a league title you don't buy Jorginho. Not saying for a second he is the only reason we haven't been in the running the past few years but, for me, for a team playing to win a title needs the rest of the team needs to do some carrying.

A lot of things are needed in order to challenge Man City for the title and a lot of things need to go our way meaning no injuries on James and Chilwell and so on, Jorginho has always been a system player to make things tick and to keep the team stable, he has never been the one to make the difference. At least with him as he is, we have been a top 4 team consistently without going up and down in prior seasons so some level of consistency was gained there and I'm sure that without him, Sarri wouldn't have managed to finish top 3 and Lampard wouldn't have had the stable options to go with either in his first season as well so while Jorginho might not be enough for a title win he was a key player for Sarri and for Lampard in his first season which made their lives much more easier and then till this point Tuchel hasn't had any problems with him either so that's real value there, just not enough for a league title.

The interesting thing about that though, Jorginho and winning a PL title, is that if he hadn't been our player he would have been in Man City and he would have won a PL title with Pep, not as the biggest difference maker but as a system player. For anything else, you need a difference maker in De Bruyne, David Silva, Mahrez and so on... We will never know just how close we would have been this season to Man City if Chilwell and James hadn't had injuries so it goes to show that for a title run a lot of things need to go your way.

2 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

Every season he has been here he has gone through a slump in form, which is why I have always said that I don't think we can win the league with Jorginho as a regular starter. I think he has shown a lot of improvements under Tuchel and this season I think has been his best with us, but that isn't enough. From the start of the season up until mid February, he was one of the first names on the team sheet for me, but he's been really poor since then. He was passing the ball quicker and cleanly and I also thought that positionally he was excellent which was making up for his lack of strength. In recent months though, he doesn't look anywhere near as confident. His passing isn't clean, he's taking too long to get the ball moving and his touch is poor. He's inviting pressure on himself and finding himself in 2v1 situations which leads to an attack breaking down or him losing the ball.

All of our CM's are bit off at the moment. Kante has struggled all season apart from the odd game here and there where he shows his best, Jorginho's form has nose dived, Saul is rubbish, Loftus-Cheek is a good squad player but usually poor when he is given a run of starts and Kovacic keeps getting rotated in and out of the side for some odd reason. The only one I would be confident starting most games right now is Kovacic.

That would all be almost fully negligible if we had someone like Salah with 20+ goals and 10 assists.

Man City and Liverpool don't have that much superior midfield than us, same level of end product in the league and in Europe when you compare Henderson/Thiago/Keita/Fabinho to Kovacic/Jorginho/Kante/RLC.

In fact RLC's end product this season is at the same level of Thiago and Keita, you could argue slightly better even.
Kovacic has the same end product like Henderson while playing a lot less than him.
Jorginho has the same end product as Fabinho if we put his penalties a bit lower than Fabinho's goals from open play, otherwise Jorginho has scored more and has more assists.
And then you have Kante that even in his slightly out of form season has 4 assists in the league.

What hurt us this season is the absence of James and Chilwell, otherwise if they had stayed healthy we could have been 2nd in the league right now.

2 hours ago, coco said:

I was at the game just got back, have not posted in the match thread yet becasue i needed to come here straight away and say we cannot afford to play Jorginho in the final, Tuchel was going mental at him today for getting caught out on the ball, his time is up at the club.

Simple TT don't pick him then. You have Kante, Kovacic, Saul, RLC, James and Chalobah who have all played CM for prolonged periods in their careers.

You have no reason to pick Jorgi and, as I called, he is not the same player now and won't be again this season as Italy losing their world cup spot broke him.

8 hours ago, Zeta said:

We really need a CM who has an eye for a pass, like Cesc. Our forwards make lots of runs but they are just ignored all the time, or not even seen.

All our players generally go for the safe pass though, it’s not just a midfield issue.

10 hours ago, coco said:

One time in the match he was roasting James for passing to him.😃

James should have booted him of the pitch.

I mean how can anyone claim he played ok....

 

 

2 hours ago, Munkworth said:

All our players generally go for the safe pass though, it’s not just a midfield issue.

Yes, but other midfielders like Kova or Kante, and even RLC, drive the ball forward if they have no clear passing option. Jorginho does not and I don’t know if that is part of his instructions or just his limitation of being a “ball recycler”.

24 minutes ago, RMH said:

Yes, but other midfielders like Kova or Kante, and even RLC, drive the ball forward if they have no clear passing option. Jorginho does not and I don’t know if that is part of his instructions or just his limitation of being a “ball recycler”.

Yep, drive forward then stop to pass sideways or backwards. 

Dreadful performance from him yesterday. Needs to be sold in the summer if we want to challenge for major honours next season. 

Ahhhhh I miss the Fabregas and Matic midfield pairing…

12 hours ago, Gol15 said:

That would all be almost fully negligible if we had someone like Salah with 20+ goals and 10 assists.

Man City and Liverpool don't have that much superior midfield than us, same level of end product in the league and in Europe when you compare Henderson/Thiago/Keita/Fabinho to Kovacic/Jorginho/Kante/RLC.

In fact RLC's end product this season is at the same level of Thiago and Keita, you could argue slightly better even.
Kovacic has the same end product like Henderson while playing a lot less than him.
Jorginho has the same end product as Fabinho if we put his penalties a bit lower than Fabinho's goals from open play, otherwise Jorginho has scored more and has more assists.
And then you have Kante that even in his slightly out of form season has 4 assists in the league.

What hurt us this season is the absence of James and Chilwell, otherwise if they had stayed healthy we could have been 2nd in the league right now.

But somebody like Salah wouldn't get that many goals and assists for us because the ball isn't played up to our attacking players quickly against teams that play defensively. I don't doubt that Kovacic, Kante and Jorginho are much more talented than both Fabinho and Henderson, but the one thing Liverpool's players are better at is getting the ball to their attackers quickly so they can open teams up. We can do that that to, we were doing it at the start of the season, which is why we were top of the table for a while. 

I think we played better than any other team has played all season for a while, and it was because our players were using their talents to play quick attacking football. Since the injury to Chilwell though, we have slowly seen these players start doubting themselves and playing conservatively. This isn't just a Jorginho problem, it's a Chelsea problem, the reason why Jorginho is getting singled out for it now is because out of all of our players that started the season so well, he is having the biggest drop off in form. 

17 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

But somebody like Salah wouldn't get that many goals and assists for us because the ball isn't played up to our attacking players quickly against teams that play defensively. I don't doubt that Kovacic, Kante and Jorginho are much more talented than both Fabinho and Henderson, but the one thing Liverpool's players are better at is getting the ball to their attackers quickly so they can open teams up. We can do that that to, we were doing it at the start of the season, which is why we were top of the table for a while. 

I think we played better than any other team has played all season for a while, and it was because our players were using their talents to play quick attacking football. Since the injury to Chilwell though, we have slowly seen these players start doubting themselves and playing conservatively. This isn't just a Jorginho problem, it's a Chelsea problem, the reason why Jorginho is getting singled out for it now is because out of all of our players that started the season so well, he is having the biggest drop off in form. 

Very true, I think it's a trust/confidence issue as well. But their movement and technique is on a different level compared to every single one of our attackers with only maybe Kai being able to reach it in the future. Their midfielders just need to get a ball up the pitch to somehow reach Salah or Mane and they will create a chance out of beating a man, quick thinking and smart positioning. We simply don't have the ability to do that on a regular basis. I doubt Pulisic, Ziyech, Werner (he did improve lately tbf), Lukaku and CHO would even make their bench. Maybe one of them.

Edited April 18, 20224 yr by Vagabond

On 18/04/2022 at 00:53, dkw said:

Just stop there. He is trash.

Your hate for Jorginho is ridiculous. The man played through injury for about half the season so we could even put a midfield on the pitch and here you (and some others) are pissing all over him because we see the consequences of that now. Shame on you and shame on all the other idiots that do so.

Clearly Vieira thought he played OK as he said the following:

"Jorginho getting on the ball more in the 2nd half was key to Chelsea’s victory"

But hey, what does a Premier League manager and former top class player know compared to some of the fools on theshedend.

Yes, his time is probably up and he's never been the ideal defensive midfielder for the Premiership but i'll be damned if he hasn't earned more respect than he's got from some. And if he does leave this summer he can leave with his head held very high knowing he was a key part in us winning the Champions League, the SuperCup and Europa League in his time at the club.