9 minutes ago, Argo said:

If the case then if anything that backs up my point about the harsh press the 'controller' types get as last season Thiago was getting slandered to the ends to the earth and back. 

Possibly Argo. But no similarities at all as players. Tiago has much more to his game and certainly more athleticism.

Just now, Deino said:

 

They have the same job, they just do it differently. 343 deep lying midfielder, it's just Cesc is braver. Jorginho can play like Cesc if he wanted to, he has shown multiple perfect passes forward

Does any team have a player like Fabregas right now? Does Man City have a DM that makes 10 assists per season? Liverpool? Real Madrid's Casemiro maybe? Stop living in the past.

11 minutes ago, Deino said:

 

They have the same job, they just do it differently. 343 deep lying midfielder, it's just Cesc is braver. Jorginho can play like Cesc if he wanted to, he has shown multiple perfect passes forward

I disagree. Cesc played with prime Matic sitting and sheiding him (and both Matic/Mikel in a big game) in a Jose system where his main task was to look further forward and feed the strikers. 

Jorginho is tasked to control games in a front foot system with Kante/Kova being the more aggressive type player infront of him.

Neither could have succesfully done the role of the other.

Edited April 24, 20224 yr by Argo

Just now, Argo said:

I disagree. Cesc played with prime Matic sheiding him (and both Matic/Mikel in a big game) in a Jose system where his main task was to look further forward and feed the strikers. 

Jorginho is tasked to control games with Kante/Kova being the more aggressive type player infront of him.

Neither could have succesful done the role of the other.

We haven't properly replaced Matic. I'm guessing 100m bid for Rice should fix not having that kind of a player.

11 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

No problem with me, I expect him to be sold in the summer. But I'm a bit sad that you already forgot just how much more vulnerable we were just last match while Jorginho didn't play. He managed more than enough seasons here and has never been lower than top 4, that's good enough all things considered.

We’re vulnerable in midfield with or without him. On current form Kova is the only one who deserves to start but he’s injury prone. 

One of the problems I have with those that say Jorginho is not there to give us any creativity or attacking options, he is there solely in a deep lying, defensive capacity to protect the back-line, is that he also isn't that great defensively. He isn't a physical DM like Rice or Essien and he isn't a natural defensive DM like a Makalele or Fernandinho in his prime who read the play so well. Essentially, he is there to recycle the ball. Move it from point A to point B and more often than not, back to point A again. Of course he does the recycling bit very well, but it obviously slows our transition and tempo down so much and generally doesn't stretch the opposition but rather lets them regroup and get their shape back.

With Rudiger and Christensen leaving I hope we just go for CBs that Tuchel trusts enough to play in a back 4 and we can go for 3 in midfield. A midfield 3 of Gallagher, Rice and Kovacic would be class.

26 minutes ago, Munkworth said:

We’re vulnerable in midfield with or without him. On current form Kova is the only one who deserves to start but he’s injury prone. 

OK but against West Ham we didn't give any gifts nor were were ever in trouble of conceding. Jorginho and Kante fit together.

16 minutes ago, timetowaste said:

With Rudiger and Christensen leaving I hope we just go for CBs that Tuchel trusts enough to play in a back 4 and we can go for 3 in midfield. A midfield 3 of Gallagher, Rice and Kovacic would be class.

James T.Silva Kounde Chilwell

                  Rice
      Gallagher  Mount

Ziyech                         Pulisic
               Havertz

Lukaku in Bologna 😂

PL figures per 90 this season :

 

And in the Champions League :

33 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

James T.Silva Kounde Chilwell

                  Rice
      Gallagher  Mount

Ziyech                         Pulisic
               Havertz

Lukaku in Bologna 😂

Oh god no thanks 😂

42 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

PL figures per 90 this season :

 

And in the Champions League :

Haven't seen anyone saying how Kovacic passes backwards though. 

I'm done have a nice

Surprise surprise this thread is lite up like a Christmas tree again. He did the job he was tasked by TT decently today.

However, as I have said since Italy went out in qualifiers, his head is gone, he is broken and you cannot put the pressure of a winning pen on him or have him face a high press. TT needs to see that. He needs the summer to straighten out his head, and probably move back to Italy as that will be best for him and us.

3 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Haven't seen anyone saying how Kovacic passes backwards though. 

I'm done have a nice

Have a nice what?

The anticipation is killing me!

11 hours ago, just said:

One of the problems I have with those that say Jorginho is not there to give us any creativity or attacking options, he is there solely in a deep lying, defensive capacity to protect the back-line, is that he also isn't that great defensively. He isn't a physical DM like Rice or Essien and he isn't a natural defensive DM like a Makalele or Fernandinho in his prime who read the play so well. Essentially, he is there to recycle the ball. Move it from point A to point B and more often than not, back to point A again. Of course he doe s the recycling bit very well, but it obviously slows our transition and tempo down so much and generally doesn't stretch the opposition but rather lets them regroup and get their shape back.

Yup, He is far more important defensively rather than offensively. A lot of people try to compare him to Thiago/Busquets but his game is much closer to Mikel. 

Jorginho biggest strength for our team is his comfort making 1000 short passes per game and his tendency to sit rather than press (he is in the end our only natural sitting dm). This allow us to keep the ball n play more controlled/risk less football which is what Tuchel has instilled in our team. 

I wanted Jorgi gone when Lamp was here but since Tuchel took over and we played back 3 + heavy possession football, I though Jorginho is perfectly fine. 

The problem right now without our two first choice wb,  we need our midfield to do more that include jorgi, kante and kova 

Edited April 25, 20224 yr by Bob stark

16 hours ago, just said:

One of the problems I have with those that say Jorginho is not there to give us any creativity or attacking options, he is there solely in a deep lying, defensive capacity to protect the back-line, is that he also isn't that great defensively. He isn't a physical DM like Rice or Essien and he isn't a natural defensive DM like a Makalele or Fernandinho in his prime who read the play so well. Essentially, he is there to recycle the ball. Move it from point A to point B and more often than not, back to point A again. Of course he does the recycling bit very well, but it obviously slows our transition and tempo down so much and generally doesn't stretch the opposition but rather lets them regroup and get their shape back.

I will disagree with this, Jorginho reads the game very well and makes a lot of interceptions. I have no idea what the stats are on his interceptions but I'm willing to bet it's at the top over others in the league over his years with us.  Given the choice I will always choose that skillset over a physical DM who lacks the ability to read the game. 

19 hours ago, loz said:

I think we can safely say it wasn't Jorginho.

That says negative 148mph on the picture, so could be Jorginho. Moving so slowly he's actually travelling back through time now. 

My frustration is that Jorgi can make brilliant forward passes. Think of his assist for Abraham against Watford a couple of season ago. An outstanding, Cesc pass. He can do it....when he wants to.

3 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

My frustration is that Jorgi can make brilliant forward passes. Think of his assist for Abraham against Watford a couple of season ago. An outstanding, Cesc pass. He can do it....when he wants to.

I disagree. The amount of times he's overhit lobbed passes is quite staggering. I actually don't think he has that in his locker in the same notion Cesc has where he can pull it off when ever he wanted to. That is why we don't see it that often. He's more confident in the 'safe' pass vs forward lob. 

 

5 hours ago, Remodez said:

I will disagree with this, Jorginho reads the game very well and makes a lot of interceptions. I have no idea what the stats are on his interceptions but I'm willing to bet it's at the top over others in the league over his years with us.  Given the choice I will always choose that skillset over a physical DM who lacks the ability to read the game. 

 

Interceptions this season. But as with all stats doesn't tell the whole story. The big one here from the defensive viewpoint is the amount of times Jorginho is dribbled past per game on average compared to Kante and Kovacic. There is a big difference. It is the major reason Jorgi has to use an interception based defensive strategy. Defending that way carries a risk tarriff. Looks good when it works, but when it doesn't, its often costly. David Luiz played a very similar interception based defensive game. Gambling on winning the ball in areas he didn't need to, when just holding his position and marking an opponent was the better, safer defensive option. 

54 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

My frustration is that Jorgi can make brilliant forward passes. Think of his assist for Abraham against Watford a couple of season ago. An outstanding, Cesc pass. He can do it....when he wants to.

Nope he can't. Jorgi has clear technical flaw. He can't generate power with his pass. Most of his fantastic pass usually come from one touch pass where he doesn't need to generate power by himself which mean he can only deliver this pass in certain angle, certain situation which make his forward passing game very limited 

 

Edited April 25, 20224 yr by Bob stark

10 hours ago, Remodez said:

I will disagree with this, Jorginho reads the game very well and makes a lot of interceptions. I have no idea what the stats are on his interceptions but I'm willing to bet it's at the top over others in the league over his years with us.  Given the choice I will always choose that skillset over a physical DM who lacks the ability to read the game. 

You're not wrong, over the past seasons he has been great at interceptions. This season Jorginho has made the most interceptions out of all of our midfielders, overall he's 4th in our squad when it comes to that in the PL but if you count tackles+interceptions he's the best in the whole squad.
What is interesting about him being defensively stable this season is his pressure stats. Jorginho is 2nd best at pressing in our whole squad after Mount but his success rate at that is the best. Jorginho also has the highest number of players he managed to tackle, something that not even Kante did better than him this season.

With all of those positives that Jorginho brings, he's also the player that has been dribbled past the most in the whole squad as well.

Edit for the source: https://fbref.com/en/squads/cff3d9bb/Chelsea-Stats#all_stats_misc

Safe to say that despite the lack of pace that we have been a more balanced team when Jorginho is playing since most of the time it's our team that has possession and in that scenario Jorginho is doing his role. But the alarming part of how we play with the ball is that stats indicate that we rely heavily on Rudiger so it will be a big challenge to find such an important player for next season that would fill in after Rudiger leaves, basically when both Jorginho and Rudiger leave the new signings that come will possibly be the new players that will dictate our style of play, our buildup and stability as well so this summer is going to be very exciting for the fans and for Tuchel as he's basically building a new team.

 

Edited April 25, 20224 yr by Gol15

4 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Nope he can't. Jorgi has clear technical flaw. He can't generate power with his pass. Most of his fantastic pass usually come from one touch pass where he doesn't need to generate power by himself which mean he can only deliver this pass in certain angle, certain situation which make his forward passing game very limited 

 

Well, that a contradiction if ever I have seen one...

5 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Well, that a contradiction if ever I have seen one...

Ahh I think I should have put it better. I interpreted your post as saying I have seen Jorgi make wonderful pass/forward pass why he can't do it more. N as I explained he can only do it in one way, which require specific conditions which limit his opportunity. 

Edited April 26, 20224 yr by Bob stark

As much as Jorginho has his faults and problems with himself defensively, the one real issue i have with him is his agent. He's been touting him to Juventus AGAIN and just had enough of him, sell him and promote Gallagher and use cash on Rice. He just doesn't add enough to the team in comparison to Kova or Kante or Mount and i'd much rather RLC, Gallagher or Rice in the squad.

Those who are touted out constantly and aren't buying in can go.