41 minutes ago, coco said:

We don't know for sure if Jorginho would get in those teams to be honest with you, but i can give you my opinion which is not a blind guess (like saying Werner would do well in Pools team), based on watching Jorginho for the last 4 seasons, no chance he would ever be a regular first team player.

Pep wanted him so at least in 1 season he would have been a starter there... And in his first season in the PL he was vital for us so I can imagine he would do a similar impact for Man City that at the time had a much better squad.

1 minute ago, Gol15 said:

Pep wanted him so at least in 1 season he would have been a starter there... And in his first season in the PL he was vital for us so I can imagine he would do a similar impact for Man City that at the time had a much better squad.

Pep didnt watch him solid for the last 4 seasons before (supposedly) trying to buy him. 

Just now, coco said:

Pep didnt watch him solid for the last 4 seasons before (supposedly) trying to buy him. 

He watched him for at least 1 season and he liked Sarri's Napoli. The deal was basically pre-made for him to come there but Jorginho changed his mind and came here, this is the reason why till this day Man City and Napoli are not in any contacts.

Only afterwards Pep went for Rodri and if you look at how Jorginho changed our style in his first season in the PL it would have been unlikely that he wouldn't be able to just fit in an already polished Man City squad that loves to pass the ball around.

11 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

It has been a pretty long time since Rice is somehow linked to us though. I'm not saying that the club will manage to sign Rice with all the other issues, it's probably unlikely and in that sense you're right about him not being our default transfer target in the summer, but signing him would mean that we're not really caring about the price as long as it's what the club wants, it would be a huge statement.

Even if Rice wouldn't solve our lack of finishing or creating chances he would solve maybe some other issues once we lose some of our key players. After all, our backline can look pretty clueless and Rice could be a good extra man there when needed, though a cheaper DM that would do that would be the best option but these days it doesn't look like we can steal a player like we did when we signed Kante right after he won the league. If he really is loving CFC though, he could make it easier for us, in a similar fashion like Matic that simply wanted to play for Mourinho.

That's me derailing the thread right here  reckon, and I do agree with you about Jorgi 90% (still think Kova was the most consistent and stable midfielder this season), but you made it sound as if it would be a good idea to go after our "default signing targets", at least that's how it sounded to me, and I do have an issue with that from the clubs perspective because statement transfers are kinda out of fashion unless you do have a backbone well and established and it's just about polishing the last 5-10% within a squad. Like City did with Grealish last season or with Haaland now - before they spend ,say, double the amount of money on 7-8 players (still ridiculous prices all over, no question there) to have a coherent unit already. Our forward line is unsolved as it stands. Our CM is as are our wingbacks and half of our CBs. Kepa will want to leave and we do need a competent  substitute there too because if Mendy doesn't get his feet untangled come next season we won't be better off as well.

Too many construction sites imo within this squad to make statement transfers. If most is solved this summer and Rice plays his part...I'm the last to complain but that's one heck of work (and when I'm already reading about Perisic eventually coming to the rescue I'm not sure it's the right direction).

4 hours ago, weetee said:

That's me derailing the thread right here  reckon, and I do agree with you about Jorgi 90% (still think Kova was the most consistent and stable midfielder this season), but you made it sound as if it would be a good idea to go after our "default signing targets", at least that's how it sounded to me, and I do have an issue with that from the clubs perspective because statement transfers are kinda out of fashion unless you do have a backbone well and established and it's just about polishing the last 5-10% within a squad. Like City did with Grealish last season or with Haaland now - before they spend ,say, double the amount of money on 7-8 players (still ridiculous prices all over, no question there) to have a coherent unit already. Our forward line is unsolved as it stands. Our CM is as are our wingbacks and half of our CBs. Kepa will want to leave and we do need a competent  substitute there too because if Mendy doesn't get his feet untangled come next season we won't be better off as well.

Too many construction sites imo within this squad to make statement transfers. If most is solved this summer and Rice plays his part...I'm the last to complain but that's one heck of work (and when I'm already reading about Perisic eventually coming to the rescue I'm not sure it's the right direction).

I guess it’s then not possible to solve the midfield problem with Rice.

If Jorginho leaves we have to find a new player that is at the very least decent enough for a top 4 finish while at the same time he doesn’t cost as much as Rice but what DM could be good enough for us that would cost 50m or less?

I don’t think we can avoid spending little this summer if our ambitions are to stay at this top 4 level. Some said Tuchel expects at least 4 new players and considering that Dave, Jorginho, Rudiger, Christensen are leaving it’s the bare minimum.

I rate Kounde highly but a part of me is hoping that Kounde won’t be the biggest name since we have been after him already, he’s the real default signing but we need something more than just filling the gaps and even though Perisic is a good player he will be coming for free and he’s 33 so there is a lot of thinkering to be done...

A long time ago we could buy Hazard and he had the time to become a star, when we signed Pulisic he was already expected to be our next big player and so far he has been underwhelming... With a lot of experienced players leaving I’m afraid that if we go for another player with massive potential that he might also find himself overwhelmed and with nobody to help him settle and grow. Jorginho had the benefit of having Sarri so he just continued from what he did prior, if we go for someone like Tchoumeni it’s important to keep Kante as a mentor figure.

50 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I guess it’s then not possible to solve the midfield problem with Rice.

If Jorginho leaves we have to find a new player that is at the very least decent enough for a top 4 finish while at the same time he doesn’t cost as much as Rice but what DM could be good enough for us that would cost 50m or less?

I don’t think we can avoid spending little this summer if our ambitions are to stay at this top 4 level. Some said Tuchel expects at least 4 new players and considering that Dave, Jorginho, Rudiger, Christensen are leaving it’s the bare minimum.

I rate Kounde highly but a part of me is hoping that Kounde won’t be the biggest name since we have been after him already, he’s the real default signing but we need something more than just filling the gaps and even though Perisic is a good player he will be coming for free and he’s 33 so there is a lot of thinkering to be done...

A long time ago we could buy Hazard and he had the time to become a star, when we signed Pulisic he was already expected to be our next big player and so far he has been underwhelming... With a lot of experienced players leaving I’m afraid that if we go for another player with massive potential that he might also find himself overwhelmed and with nobody to help him settle and grow. Jorginho had the benefit of having Sarri so he just continued from what he did prior, if we go for someone like Tchoumeni it’s important to keep Kante as a mentor figure.

I have a feeling that Jorginho would be willing to go back to italy too. The pace of seria a would suit him perfectly.

In that case i would definitely go after gundogan that apparently city are willing to let him go. He reminds me a bit of fabregas. 

There are alot of decent deals to be had, i just hope we make some early deals and not leave it last minute. 

19 hours ago, coco said:

Yeah he had a great game, he did exactly what he does best.

But sadly his best doesn't involve producing goals./chances.

He doesn't have the capability to unlock defences. Away from home he looks much better. But at home with high possession/territory and compressed opponents, he is about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

 

Because that is not Jorgi. His fans want jorgi to be considered as pirlo, thiago. He is more like a Mikel. A shorter, weaker, slower, less skillful version of Mikel. 

Edited May 17, 20224 yr by Bob stark

16 hours ago, coco said:

Imo Jorginho would not get in either of those teams because he is nowhere near reliable enough to turn up every game. That's why i don't ever consider him good enough to win the league. 

He probably won't start for City but he can play there. For pool, he will be the 100th midfielder. Klopp will play Milner as dm before Jorgi. 

12 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I guess it’s then not possible to solve the midfield problem with Rice.

If Jorginho leaves we have to find a new player that is at the very least decent enough for a top 4 finish while at the same time he doesn’t cost as much as Rice but what DM could be good enough for us that would cost 50m or less?

I don’t think we can avoid spending little this summer if our ambitions are to stay at this top 4 level. Some said Tuchel expects at least 4 new players and considering that Dave, Jorginho, Rudiger, Christensen are leaving it’s the bare minimum.

I rate Kounde highly but a part of me is hoping that Kounde won’t be the biggest name since we have been after him already, he’s the real default signing but we need something more than just filling the gaps and even though Perisic is a good player he will be coming for free and he’s 33 so there is a lot of thinkering to be done...

A long time ago we could buy Hazard and he had the time to become a star, when we signed Pulisic he was already expected to be our next big player and so far he has been underwhelming... With a lot of experienced players leaving I’m afraid that if we go for another player with massive potential that he might also find himself overwhelmed and with nobody to help him settle and grow. Jorginho had the benefit of having Sarri so he just continued from what he did prior, if we go for someone like Tchoumeni it’s important to keep Kante as a mentor figure.

I didn't meant to say that it's impossible to solve our "problems" with Rice. If, but that's a huge one and imho impossible to fully understand from the outside, we find a way to integrate Lukaku (without shutting out Havertz and vice versa) - and I haven't given up hope on that idea although it might be grasping at straws, I know that - it would basically solve half of our problems. Kounde sounds great, if Rice would get here on top and at least one or two of Gilmore, Gallagah or Colwill hits the ground fast and running + Trev makes another step forward I'm quite confident we are able to play a good round. We wouldn't challenge for the title that way I reckon since at least City is set up just too good.

What imho speaks heavily for Rice is his leadership. We are in dire need of that once Rüdiger leaves us and Jorgi leaving wouldn't help there either. The thing is even if we get, say, three top tier players we still would need to integrate them etc. pp. and that will cost us time ergo points. One of our key features for success was our great play as a coherent unit and less individual brilliance - that came alsways second. This we will have to build up again and there is no telling how fast it can grow together and click. Pool and City won't wait for us so this year unfortunately was a wasted one since we made rather a step backwards and have even more problems to solve than last summer.

 It's extremely frustrating and reminds me when TT played top notch football with Dortmund in his first season there..almost flawless, beautifully to watch, but there was still Pep around topping the league no matter what. 

So it's either a massive influx of money (don't see it) very well used or still a ton of money to be invested but with a more steady build up process. If we do the latter, which I think is the way to go, and keep on having good cup runs we will win a cup here and there and have to be ready once City lost its momentum to have a realisitical shot at the title. Liverpool I 

 

 

Jorginho had a great cup final, and he very good vs Leeds too. 

Looking forward though, i think with a year left on his and Kante's deals we have to make a decision on both players. 

Personally for me I wouldnt extend either player, one i would sell, and the other i would keep and let them leave for free next summer. 

Who stays and who goes depends on what offers we have on the table, and what formation we are looking to play. Kante is the better player, but his injury record is sketchy, and it has affected his form his form this season. 

4 minutes ago, big blue said:

Jorginho had a great cup final, and he very good vs Leeds too. 

Looking forward though, i think with a year left on his and Kante's deals we have to make a decision on both players. 

Personally for me I wouldnt extend either player, one i would sell, and the other i would keep and let them leave for free next summer. 

Who stays and who goes depends on what offers we have on the table, and what formation we are looking to play. Kante is the better player, but his injury record is sketchy, and it has affected his form his form this season. 

We'd probably get 75m from united for Kante because they are insane. That's better than letting him leave for free next summer. 

4 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

We'd probably get 75m from united for Kante because they are insane. That's better than letting him leave for free next summer. 

Id bite their hands off tbh, but i doubt anybody would offer more than £30m for him, and I think the maximum we would get for Jorginho would be around £15m if he is heading back to italy. 

2 hours ago, big blue said:

Id bite their hands off tbh, but i doubt anybody would offer more than £30m for him, and I think the maximum we would get for Jorginho would be around £15m if he is heading back to italy. 

I could see united offering a decent wedge. 

2 hours ago, big blue said:

Jorginho had a great cup final, and he very good vs Leeds too. 

Looking forward though, i think with a year left on his and Kante's deals we have to make a decision on both players. 

Personally for me I wouldnt extend either player, one i would sell, and the other i would keep and let them leave for free next summer. 

Who stays and who goes depends on what offers we have on the table, and what formation we are looking to play. Kante is the better player, but his injury record is sketchy, and it has affected his form his form this season. 

Jorginho has the longevity. In an ideal world we can rip off PSG for big money and get a long term replacement.

I think football has moved on to a much faster pace in the pl.. with Jorgi we can never play direct football.. I think credit to him.. he has been a great servant had some great moments for us .. but it doesn’t surprise me that his best has come in the continent where the pace is slower teams aren’t trying to close you down at 100 miles every game.

for EPL we need a more dynamic midfielder that also allows us to mix it up a bit.

13 hours ago, Bob stark said:

. He is more like a Mikel. A shorter, weaker, slower, less skillful version of Mikel. 

Far better passer though. I loved Mikel but he'd get so much flack these days (undeserved flack) for his very conservative passing.
In many ways there are a lot of similarities about how Mikel & Jorginho are rated as Mikel himself was terrible underrated for his entire ten-year tenure at the club.

 

Mikel had a better defensive edge but Jorignho is far superior in having the tools needed for a proper CM, IE finding space and orchestrating the transition. 

5 hours ago, Sindre said:

Far better passer though. I loved Mikel but he'd get so much flack these days (undeserved flack) for his very conservative passing.
In many ways there are a lot of similarities about how Mikel & Jorginho are rated as Mikel himself was terrible underrated for his entire ten-year tenure at the club.

 

Mikel used to get much flack for his conservative passing. Imo being conservatives passer as a dm is pretty normal. 

I am not sure Jorgi is underrated. He is reigning uefa poty.  

 

On 17/05/2022 at 19:38, Sconnie Blue said:

Mikel had a better defensive edge but Jorignho is far superior in having the tools needed for a proper CM, IE finding space and orchestrating the transition. 

I will always go back to a moment in the Sarri season when talking about Jorginho.

I remember away to Palace (I think) Barkley was completely boxed in and had he given the ball away we were in big trouble, Jorginho quickly identified the sh*t Ross was in and sharply made himself available for a pass despite being marked himself and then gave the ball to an unmarked Kante.

On paper a boring sideways pass, in reality it stopped a big chance against us.

 

52 minutes ago, dkw said:

 

Heard another transfer rumour this week that Atalanta might be interested in him too.

I'd only sell for a good price nothing below £20m otherwise give him another 3 year deal. Losing potentially our captain and vice captain does not sound appealing to me at all.

2 hours ago, Argo said:

I will always go back to a moment in the Sarri season when talking about Jorginho.

I remember away to Palace (I think) Barkley was completely boxed in and had he given the ball away we were in big trouble, Jorginho quickly identified the sh*t Ross was in and sharply made himself available for a pass despite being marked himself and then gave the ball to an unmarked Kante.

On paper a boring sideways pass, in reality it stopped a big chance against us.

Nah mate you’re only a proper midfielder if you run around like a headless chicken and shoot from 40 yards every game 

22 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

I'd only sell for a good price nothing below £20m otherwise give him another 3 year deal. Losing potentially our captain and vice captain does not sound appealing to me at all.

I'd only sell if Tchouameni is guaranteed. 

And to be honest even then I wouldn't necessarily be all that for selling him. The fact he isn't going to the WC is a massive bonus. 

2 hours ago, Argo said:

I will always go back to a moment in the Sarri season when talking about Jorginho.

I remember away to Palace (I think) Barkley was completely boxed in and had he given the ball away we were in big trouble, Jorginho quickly identified the sh*t Ross was in and sharply made himself available for a pass despite being marked himself and then gave the ball to an unmarked Kante.

On paper a boring sideways pass, in reality it stopped a big chance against us.

Just think in 30 years time, there could be a song that mentions the sideways pass by Jorgi and you'll be able to relate to it in the same way we older ones remember the 'tackle by Moore'