On 19/07/2022 at 17:39, Sindre said:

I don't think we are interested in selling him.

Will without a doubt have a major role to play this season as well as our only real defensive midfielder in the squad. Apparently looking and feeling much fresher after his extremely well deserved extended break and that is great news for us.

 

I think he's not going to be fresh throughout the whole season though.

I understand that Tuchel has a hard time to build the squad, specially with the departure of our defenders but there is a huge risk that at some point we end up with Kante, Kovacic and Jorginho injured, it has happened that 2/3 were unable to play while Jorginho played through some minor injury while being jaded.

On 23/07/2022 at 09:08, Bob stark said:

Maybe because he is old, not really a game changer, can only play one position and one role and we are not interested on selling him

Also he's slow ,can't tackle and generally only has sideways vision.✌️

If Jorginho could play the kind of passes he played for Sterling's goal today more often, nobody would have a problem with him. He's clearly capable, but he just seems to lose confidence as the season goes on or can't keep up with the pace and becomes fatigued.

11 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

If Jorginho could play the kind of passes he played for Sterling's goal today more often, nobody would have a problem with him. He's clearly capable, but he just seems to lose confidence as the season goes on or can't keep up with the pace and becomes fatigued.

He can do it reasonably consistently, just only when he has all the time in the world and nobody is bothering to put pressure on him. So not really in the English league.

12 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

If Jorginho could play the kind of passes he played for Sterling's goal today more often, nobody would have a problem with him. He's clearly capable, but he just seems to lose confidence as the season goes on or can't keep up with the pace and becomes fatigued.

Not so often is he so forward up the pitch, similar with Kante I mean he can score those goals when he goes forward but it happens rarely.

On 30/07/2022 at 07:04, Scott Harris said:

If Jorginho could play the kind of passes he played for Sterling's goal today more often, nobody would have a problem with him. He's clearly capable, but he just seems to lose confidence as the season goes on or can't keep up with the pace and becomes fatigued.

It's a technique thing - two specific issues actually:

• He takes three touches instead of two, but also lacks the pace to create separation from defenders. If you watch clips of Rodri or Fabinho (let alone Thiago) you'll see them receive and turn ready to play the ball in one or two touches, whereas Jorginho almost always takes an extra touch. While Jorgi is generally excellent at avoiding pressing, the extra time taken has a knock-on effect; Jorginho delays the pass, meaning the recipient ends up with less time on the ball, which means less time for them to pick their pass, which leads to a rushed shot etc. Kante and Kovacic have the opposite problem but with the same outcome - they attempt the quick pass but cannot pull it off - leading to the same net result.  By the time we are ready to make the final pass the opposition is usually in a better defensive position, or we're making it to a player making a late run and consequently a rushed shot.
   
• He doesn't impart much backspin on the ball when passing from deep. Backspin is what stops the ball from skidding/bouncing off the turf. Usually this suggests the player is driving the pass hard (ie closer to the big toe than the instep) and I wonder if it is at least in part caused by Jorginho's lack of physicality causing him to drive rather than place his passes. There were some promising moments last year where Jorginho was trying balls over the top for CHO, but they never quite came off due to the lack of backspin.

 

I would love to see him closer to the box, making plays like he did to Sterling. Though it seems like a high-risk situation, because the Udinese defender was unlucky not to intercept, it's actually better from an attacking and defending standpoint to have Jorginho making the pass and Kante/Kovacic/whoever covering. Jorginho's ability to weight driven passes is a positive when the passes are along the ground and not from deep.

Edited July 31, 20223 yr by SydneyChelsea

On 30/07/2022 at 10:20, loz said:

He can do it reasonably consistently, just only when he has all the time in the world and nobody is bothering to put pressure on him. So not really in the English league.

He actually does it far better than any other defensive midfielder in the Premiership. In terms of big chances created he's well r ahead of the likes of Rodri, Fabinho, Rice and others.

But people tend to forget what Jorginho first and foremost is. He's playing like a defensive midfielder for us and we shouldn't have to rely on our DM for chance creation. When he does then great but we desperately need someone who's actual game is being an creative genius and currently we have no such play.
Right now it's whoever is playing beside him with the freedom to roam forward at will we need better passing and creativity from. Especially Kante but the same goes for Kovacic although he's gotten better in that departement.

 

 

https://twitter.com/AdamNewson/status/1554464301439762433?s=20&t=cImWz__WCeEFX-s1DhbvsA

Captain talking? Captains words for sure.

4 hours ago, evissy said:

https://twitter.com/AdamNewson/status/1554464301439762433?s=20&t=cImWz__WCeEFX-s1DhbvsA

Captain talking? Captains words for sure.

Hope he takes his own advice, been here 4(?) years now and not seen him improve yet.

5 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Hope he takes his own advice, been here 4(?) years now and not seen him improve yet.

No? He's been so much better under Tuchel than he ever was under Sarri or Lampard in my opinion.

If that wasn't the case (improvement) we would never have won the Champions League with him in a midfield two for example. And certainly not for Jorginho to get on the podium for the Ballon D'Or and win UEFA Player of the year.

Edited August 3, 20223 yr by Sindre

21 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Hope he takes his own advice, been here 4(?) years now and not seen him improve yet.

Do you not think he is much better at turning quickly and running with the ball? His aerial dominance of the middle of the pitch has also greatly improved. These are just two of the reasons why so many clubs were interested in him this window.

29 minutes ago, Sindre said:

No? He's been so much better under Tuchel than he ever was under Sarri or Lampard in my opinion.

If that wasn't the case (improvement) we would never have won the Champions League with him in a midfield two for example. And certainly not for Jorginho to get on the podium for the Ballon D'Or and win UEFA Player of the year.

He was nominated for the individual awards on the back of team achievements, neither of which he was the key player for the team. Same old player with the same old bag of tricks he's always been. 

 

Luckily we had a good manager that could adapt a system to cover his many deficiencies. 

Just now, RIP Mourinho said:

He was nominated for the individual awards on the back of team achievements, neither of which he was the key player for the team. Same old player with the same old bag of tricks he's always been. 

Luckily we had a good manager that could adapt a system to cover his many deficiencies. 

The only constant in the two European champions of that year, both of which looked impenetrable and broke defensive records.

4 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

He was nominated for the individual awards on the back of team achievements, neither of which he was the key player for the team. Same old player with the same old bag of tricks he's always been. 

 

Luckily we had a good manager that could adapt a system to cover his many deficiencies. 

Clearly his colleagues, teammates and coaches disagrees with you as they voted for him 😄

15 minutes ago, just said:

Do you not think he is much better at turning quickly and running with the ball? His aerial dominance of the middle of the pitch has also greatly improved. These are just two of the reasons why so many clubs were interested in him this window.

Aye.

Shame Kante never became a more than average passer, finisher, header or gained more positional awareness.

Could have been a useful player for us if he did.

See how stupid it sounds?

8 minutes ago, Argo said:

The only constant in the two European champions of that year, both of which looked impenetrable and broke defensive records.

The constant with absolutely world class CB's behind him and was outperformed in both teams by the CM next to him.

9 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Aye.

Shame Kante never became a more than average passer, finisher, header or gained more positional awareness.

Could have been a useful player for us if he did.

See how stupid it sounds?

Kante has other things in his locker. Incredible ability to read the game and endless energy alongside elite physical attributed. Jorginho is all the things you listed above above without the physical dominance Kante brings. Actually incredibly insulting to try to compare Jorginho to Kante. 

Edited August 3, 20223 yr by RIP Mourinho

2 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

The constant with absolutely world class CB's behind him and was outperformed in both teams by the CM next to him.

If he's the liability people portray him as neither team would be able to break those records regardless of what was around him.

6 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Kante has other things in his locker. Incredible ability to read the game and endless energy alongside elite physical attributed. Jorginho is all the things you listed above above without the physical dominance Kante brings. Actually incredibly insulting to try to compare Jorginho to Kante. 

And everyone with even the slightest knowledge of the game realize Jorginho does as well.

Here is where he ranked out of every Champions League player the season we won it. So yeah, if you don't realize he's got incredible quality you don't know football. Sorry.

5 hours ago, Sindre said:

Aye.

Shame Kante never became a more than average passer, finisher, header or gained more positional awareness.

Could have been a useful player for us if he did.

See how stupid it sounds?

You mean the UEFA midfield player of the season?

20 hours ago, Sindre said:

And everyone with even the slightest knowledge of the game realize Jorginho does as well.

Here is where he ranked out of every Champions League player the season we won it. So yeah, if you don't realize he's got incredible quality you don't know football. Sorry.

defensive teams defensive mid has most defensive actions, imagine my shock!

21 hours ago, Sindre said:

And everyone with even the slightest knowledge of the game realize Jorginho does as well.

Here is where he ranked out of every Champions League player the season we won it. So yeah, if you don't realize he's got incredible quality you don't know football. Sorry.

Not sure how relevant this stat is, we went to the final so we played the most games.

It's a pity Jorginho isn't a 20 year academy prospect. Tuchel would never pick him. 😉

 

 

Another great game for the double European Champion.