3 minutes ago, HazardousChoice said:

Do you think Jorginho is sad to see Alonso go as it confirms his place as the number 1 scapegoat on the team this season?

or maybe Pulisic? 

16 minutes ago, charierre said:

or maybe Pulisic? 

They're completely different though, one is a crappy 4 goal a season Winger that has been benched every season of his career by more talented players with all 4 of his club managers preferring other players.  A player that has done next to nothing in his entire 7 year club career, literally does nothing well and looks massively out of his depth almost every time he disgraces the pitch yet some people pretend he's some kind of top talent being wasted.

The other is Jorginho. A player that was key in revolutionising Napoli into playing some of the best football in Europe.  A player that has started almost every game for one of the best club sides in the world under multiple managers and was the one of the 1st names on the team sheet for an Italy side that won the Euro's on the back of a record 37 game undefeated run yet so many want to downplay his importance to his teams.

Why do all these managers choose to start Jorginho? Unlike Puli who is always benched.  Why has Jorginho been the heartbeat of multiple successful teams?

Jorginho is the reverse Pulisic. Jorgi has even outscored Pulisic since they've both been at the club. 

2 minutes ago, HazardousChoice said:

They're completely different though, one is a crappy 4 goal a season Winger that has been benched every season of his career by more talented players with all 4 of his club managers preferring other players.  A player that has done next to nothing in his entire 7 year club career, literally does nothing well and looks massively out of his depth almost every time he disgraces the pitch yet some people pretend he's some kind of top talent being wasted.

The other is Jorginho. A player that was key in revolutionising Napoli into playing some of the best football in Europe.  A player that has started almost every game for one of the best club sides in the world under multiple managers and was the one of the 1st names on the team sheet for an Italy side that won the Euro's on the back of a record 37 game undefeated run yet so many want to downplay his importance to his teams.

Why do all these managers choose to start Jorginho? Unlike Puli who is always benched.  Why has Jorginho been the heartbeat of multiple successful teams?

Jorginho is the reverse Pulisic. Jorgi has even outscored Pulisic since they've both been at the club. 

still your whipping boy

6 minutes ago, charierre said:

still your whipping boy

Pointing out an untalented player has been benched his entire career and averages 4 goals a season isn't scapegoating. They're simply the facts.

That's very different to people saying things like "Kante has to cover for Jorginho all the time or we'll collapse" when Jorginho has performed well both for Italy and in games here without Kante.

Edited August 7, 20223 yr by HazardousChoice

44 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

In the Leicester title winning season, they had 42.4% possession, so were playing the majority of the game without the ball. In that scenario, having someone like Kante to hare around the pitch breaking up play and winning back possession plays right into his skills locker.

If, though, you want to play as a possession-based side, then Kante doesn't offer enough, and it nullifies many of his strengths. 

Because he is "Kante" though, a succession of managers have tried to shoe-horn him into the team.

It's frustrating because when Tuchel came in he was rotating the three based on opponents and we (and they) were reaping the rewards, now he seems to have gone down the Lampard route of sticking his fingers in his ear while pretending its still 2017.

Yesterday suited the Jorgi/Kova partnership.

Edited August 7, 20223 yr by Argo

I'd like to see TT be brave enough to completely ditch the idea of a purely defensive, sitting midfielder. 

It should \ would speed up our painfully slow transition play and would allow another body to get forwards when the opportunity presented itself.

I think he's far too cautious to try it though.

14 hours ago, Argo said:

Ofcourse that's totally twisting my words but i'll play along, you do realize he's won this particular fixture all 5 times he's played in it?

He was on the losing side first time he played in the fixture 2018/19. 3-1 Tottenham. He got booked.

54 minutes ago, HazardousChoice said:

Pointing out an untalented player has been benched his entire career and averages 4 goals a season isn't scapegoating. They're simply the facts.

That's very different to people saying things like "Kante has to cover for Jorginho all the time or we'll collapse" when Jorginho has performed well both for Italy and in games here without Kante.

39 minutes ago, just said:

He was on the losing side first time he played in the fixture 2018/19. 3-1 Tottenham. He got booked.

Wasn't at Stamford Bridge, but if you insist, his all time record against them.

Won 9 

Drew 1

Lost 2

Conceded 7 (and as you pointed out 3 came in the first game so only 4 in 11 since)

Clean sheets 7

Not bad for a liability against a team that exposes him.

To put it into context, we'd have to concede 6 next week for our record of goals against vs Spurs with Jorginho playing to hit an average of 1 a game.

1 hour ago, just said:

I'd like to see TT be brave enough to completely ditch the idea of a purely defensive, sitting midfielder. 

It should \ would speed up our painfully slow transition play and would allow another body to get forwards when the opportunity presented itself.

I think he's far too cautious to try it though.

That's fair enough, does that also mean you've gone off the idea of Declan Rice as his replacement? Because on the same basis someone like Bellingham would be more suitable.

2 hours ago, just said:

I'd like to see TT be brave enough to completely ditch the idea of a purely defensive, sitting midfielder. 

It should \ would speed up our painfully slow transition play and would allow another body to get forwards when the opportunity presented itself.

I think he's far too cautious to try it though.

We would lose a lot of stability and it still wouldn't be a guarantee that our attack would suddenly flourish. After all, the pairing of Kante + Kovacic is the closest thing to that and it simply doesn't work in the long run, we looked lost.

Tuchel still has time in this transfer window, so hopefully he understands the importance of having another DM along side Jorginho, he got Cucurella after having Chilwell so the two will be a good standard for the left side, I see no reason why wouldn't Tuchel sign someone like De Jong despite him saying that a new midfielder wouldn't be the first option.
“I think we can use new energy, new legs and fresh input to bring us to a new level." - The easiest way to do this is with a new DM.

2 hours ago, Argo said:

 

That's fair enough, does that also mean you've gone off the idea of Declan Rice as his replacement? Because on the same basis someone like Bellingham would be more suitable.

I don't follow? If you watch Declan Rice much you'll see he is not a defensive midfielder who sits in front of his back line permanently. He regularly carries the ball higher up the pitch and gets forward when circumstances dictate (similarly Rodrigo at Citeh). The difference with Jorginho is Rice has the natural athletic ability and pace to do that, without becoming a liability in being caught out regularly on a counter-attack. Surely, there can be no argument that Rice runs with the ball more often than Jorgi?

Edited August 7, 20223 yr by just

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

We would lose a lot of stability and it still wouldn't be a guarantee that our attack would suddenly flourish. After all, the pairing of Kante + Kovacic is the closest thing to that and it simply doesn't work in the long run, we looked lost.

Tuchel still has time in this transfer window, so hopefully he understands the importance of having another DM along side Jorginho, he got Cucurella after having Chilwell so the two will be a good standard for the left side, I see no reason why wouldn't Tuchel sign someone like De Jong despite him saying that a new midfielder wouldn't be the first option.
“I think we can use new energy, new legs and fresh input to bring us to a new level." - The easiest way to do this is with a new DM.

Yes, I take your point Gol, we COULD lose some defensive stability without a sitting defensive midfielder but personally, for the type of free-floating, faster transition football I would like to see us play I feel it is something we should try, for the reasons I stated before.

4 hours ago, just said:

I'd like to see TT be brave enough to completely ditch the idea of a purely defensive, sitting midfielder. 

It should \ would speed up our painfully slow transition play and would allow another body to get forwards when the opportunity presented itself.

I think he's far too cautious to try it though.

The problem is not a sitting midfielder. City is playing with one, pool is playing with one. I have just watched Rodri played in front of two cb with walker next to him.With Jorgi you can't do this. We have seen it under Lamp, even under Sarri. Counter = dead. 

Edited August 7, 20223 yr by Bob stark

41 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

The problem is not a sitting midfielder. City is playing with one, pool is playing with one. I have just watched Rodri played in front of two cb with walker next to him.With Jorgi you can't do this. We have seen it under Lamp, even under Sarri. Counter = dead. 

We played with 4 at the back with Jorginho as a lone DM VS Conte Spurs 3 times last season and won every game without conceding.

8 hours ago, jack_super_class said:

We played with 4 at the back with Jorginho as a lone DM VS Conte Spurs 3 times last season and won every game without conceding.

I kept hearing this but did you watch the game? 

Let me add more, we played with Jorginho + kova many games under Lamp and we didn't concede goal all the time.  Our defense record under Sarri was actually very good with jorgi as dm. 

If I didn't watch our game then I will say it is not a problem but since I watch our game it is so obvious why it is. 

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 20223 yr by Bob stark

Another bang average performance from J5 that his disciples will sit at home creaming over because he scored a penalty won by another player to gloss over his lack of footballing ability. 

Slows the game down to a snails pace and takes 17 touches to get the ball under control before moving it sideways. Oh well, only one more year of this misery then we might be able to start challenging for the league again.

14 hours ago, just said:

Yes, I take your point Gol, we COULD lose some defensive stability without a sitting defensive midfielder but personally, for the type of free-floating, faster transition football I would like to see us play I feel it is something we should try, for the reasons I stated before.

And there in lies the problem, Tuchel is too risk free, too controlling to allow us to play with attacking intent that MIGHT expose the midfield or defence, he simply won't relax that micro managed formula, each player has a specific role with a primary base of don't lose the ball, play percentage passes, don't take risks, Jorginho suits him prefectly. This leads to the tedious, stunted dross we are currently "enjoying"...

Edited August 8, 20223 yr by dkw

6 hours ago, Bob stark said:

I kept hearing this but did you watch the game? 

Let me add more, we played with Jorginho + kova many games under Lamp and we didn't concede goal all the time.  Our defense record under Sarri was actually very good with jorgi as dm. 

If I didn't watch our game then I will say it is not a problem but since I watch our game it is so obvious why it is. 

 

 

 

Yeah, we kept the ball very well. Spurs didn't look like scoring.

Just watched that Pride video. Brilliant. Great lad Jorginho.

When I saw Jorginho "Pride" video, I thought it might have been something entirely different! Especially after those photos of him on the beach in those skimpy swimming shorts the other week.

He doesn't exactly shy away from the limelight does he?

I think Kante needs to get in on some this self- promotion. Perhaps do an advert for Mini Coopers.

beautiful story

1 hour ago, just said:

When I saw Jorginho "Pride" video, I thought it might have been something entirely different! Especially after those photos of him on the beach in those skimpy swimming shorts the other week.

He doesn't exactly shy away from the limelight does he?

I think Kante needs to get in on some this self- promotion. Perhaps do an advert for Mini Coopers.

Hah!  It’s about mother’s pride, not gay pride (Jorgi is straight, I believe).

7 hours ago, BKLYNProdigy said:

The bit where he was talking about Chelsea and how it felt for him and his family at the opportunity to sign for us, it really makes you realise how much our stature has grown over the years, I think we sometimes forget that. A lot of us Chelsea fans still see us as that same club we grew up with before all of the massive success and money. I was only a young kid when I became a Chelsea fan, but I still see us as that same club, and it's still a bit surreal that outside of England we are viewed as this massive club that can make your dreams come true.

Edited August 10, 20223 yr by Scott Harris

7 hours ago, Phillip said:

Hah!  It’s about mother’s pride, not gay pride (Jorgi is straight, I believe).

I obviously don't know him as well as you do Phil. 😉