@just get used to seeing it happen mote often. Jorgi will get overplayed and end up making more mistakes because of it due to Kova and Kante always getting bloomin injured.

We cannot go on with those two as first choice midfielders. Keep them around on light duty and saved for big games sure, 10 league starts a season each, but don't count on them to be playing most games. Keep them for Spurs, Arsenal,  Pool, City and the like. No more Evertons, Leeds and Villas for them.

4 minutes ago, timetowaste said:

Gol, we've gotta take the L here bro, it was clearly a massive cock up by Jorgi 

Tuchel doesn't see it that way though, his argument is pretty clear. He was asked directly about if he took out Jorginho because of the goal and he automatically said the following:

"No it had nothing to do with the goal, I mean it was an offside goal anyway, so how to blame Jorginho for it? No no no, he was tired he gave a lot and I wanted Ruben on the pitch because of his legs and his height, and we had a tactical switch in the defending because they had four offensive players and played all in, it was a tactical change and nothing else"

It's your choice, I think Tuchel has a great argument there though. But if that's not enough, someone else needs to take the L for letting the second goal in the last minute cause that one resulted in the draw when all said and done.

Just now, Scott Harris said:

What do you mean by what? I haven't said anything that disagrees with what you wrote here.

My point is that rice would have been more than fine in today's game. We would dominate spurs as well because although jorgi played very well, that is not the key reason why we were so dominant. 

 

16 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

But the goal itself is irregular, it's against the rules to score a goal there when Richarlison is clearly offside and clearly covering the view of Mendy. Or if we are to go further back, if the clear foul on Havertz is given Jorginho doesn't lose the ball there to begin with.

Do you understand now why Tuchel said that Jorginho isn't guilty for the irregular goal? A player gave the ball away, someone shot from outside of the box and Mendy didn't save it due to the fact that the ref and VAR simply ignored the rules of the game.

Tuchel isn't going to criticise his player publically. Yes, Tuchel feels the goal is offside, but you can be sure that he is also annoyed that Jorginho gave the ball away in our penalty area. If somebody bends that ball into the top corner and Mendy's sight isn't obstructed, would you still say Jorginho didn't make a mistake?

Either way, he gave the ball away in a very dangerous area and Tottenham scored from it. In the entire history of the game, that has always gone down as a mistake.

Edited August 14, 20223 yr by Scott Harris

1 minute ago, Bob stark said:

My point is that rice would have been more than fine in today's game. We would dominate spurs as well because although jorgi played very well, that is not the key reason why we were so dominant. 

 

We would have played nothing like that with Rice in there. Jorginho controlled that midfield with his ability to spot passes between the lines, turn away from danger and pass cleanrly. Rice's game is nothing like that, his game is more about breaking up play, advancing forward and moving it on to somebody else. The stylistic difference is huge.

7 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Tuchel doesn't see it that way though, his argument is pretty clear. He was asked directly about if he took out Jorginho because of the goal and he automatically said the following:

"No it had nothing to do with the goal, I mean it was an offside goal anyway, so how to blame Jorginho for it? No no no, he was tired he gave a lot and I wanted Ruben on the pitch because of his legs and his height, and we had a tactical switch in the defending because they had four offensive players and played all in, it was a tactical change and nothing else"

It's your choice, I think Tuchel has a great argument there though. But if that's not enough, someone else needs to take the L for letting the second goal in the last minute cause that one resulted in the draw when all said and done.

Tuchel is protecting his player and rightly so but it doesn't mean that Jorginho didn't make a costly mistake. I also don't think he was pulled straight after as a punishment for the mistake, but he clearly made a mistake 

37 minutes ago, sonic90 said:

He just got cocky in the moment on the edge of our box, not really a feature of his game and I expect him to play it safe next time. Just have to move on.

 

Just now, Scott Harris said:

Tuchel isn't going to criticise his player publically. Yes, Tuchel feels the goal is offside, but you can be sure that he is also annoyed that Jorginho gave the ball away in our penalty area. If somebody bends that ball into the top corner and Mendy's isight isn't obstructed, would you still say Jorginho didn't make a mistake?

Either way, he gave the ball away in a very dangerous area and Tottenham scored from. In the entire history of the game, that has always gone down as a mistake.

He did criticise his players publicly in the past, you assumed first that Jorginho was subbed off because of the goal and now you're assuming that Tuchel would never publicly criticise Jorginho... is that really necessary?

If the goal was regular, meaning if Jorginho loses the ball and the shot from distance is regular I would also say that Jorginho's losing the ball led to the goal, be it a wordly goal or not.

I will just say again that yes they scored but the goal stood despite the rules of the game, it should have been disallowed;
Mendy could have saved that as it wasn't the fastest shot either but what made the difference ultimately was Richarlison being in offside at the moment the shot was taken.

28 minutes ago, timetowaste said:

Tuchel is protecting his player and rightly so but it doesn't mean that Jorginho didn't make a costly mistake. I also don't think he was pulled straight after as a punishment for the mistake, but he clearly made a mistake 

He did lose possession, but ultimately that mistake isn't the reason why we conceded the goal... If that makes sense to you because when you hear Tuchel speak it's not like there is a need to over-analyze the things he says, he sounds honest when he points out that the goal shouldn't stand and thus there is no reason to blame his team nor his players for the goals it's pretty simple.

 

 

I agree that he made a mistake but what happen afterwards is a whole other story but even if you want to blame Jorginho for Hojbjerg's shot from distance that went in, we still managed to bottle the win away later on and for that he can't be blamed.

Edited August 14, 20223 yr by Gol15

9 minutes ago, just said:

 

Ok but in those instances he had some time to do something with the ball, there was none today being closed down by 3 players who were very close to him. You might think it's splitting hairs but in those videos it's more about belief in his skills to take a good touch or find a good pass but today was just pure over confidence in a more dangerous situation.

Jorginho is prone to mistakes. Some people need to accept that. Yes he’s a good player, but this won’t be the last time this season that he costs us by giving the ball away in a bad area. 

2 minutes ago, BedfordBlue said:

Jorginho is prone to mistakes. Some people need to accept that. Yes he’s a good player, but this won’t be the last time this season that he costs us by giving the ball away in a bad area. 

What cost us is the ref, not our players. If you think otherwise, feel free to blame a lot more than just Jorginho because the second goal was the one that actually cost us the win.

10 minutes ago, BedfordBlue said:

Jorginho is prone to mistakes. Some people need to accept that. Yes he’s a good player, but this won’t be the last time this season that he costs us by giving the ball away in a bad area. 

I cant think of a single player that is not prone to mistakes, even our greatest player JT had a mistake or two in him.

15 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

We would have played nothing like that with Rice in there. Jorginho controlled that midfield with his ability to spot passes between the lines, turn away from danger and pass cleanrly. Rice's game is nothing like that, his game is more about breaking up play, advancing forward and moving it on to somebody else. The stylistic difference is huge.

I disagree, let's just wait till rice move to one of the top club and we shall see. 

Jorginho between the line pass is actually terrible. I take Koulibaly between the line pass over jorgi any day.

What Jorgi good at is one touch pass, ball distribution and safe passes. All of them are basic dm stuff.  I saw similar stuff with Rodri yesterday and I won't say city dominated the game because of Rodri. It was actually quite similar to spurs. Bournnemouth could not do any build up so it was easy for City to dominate. 

 

 

 

 

18 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

I disagree, let's just wait till rice move to one of the top club and we shall see. 

Jorginho between the line pass is actually terrible. I take Koulibaly between the line pass over jorgi any day.

What Jorgi good at is one touch pass, ball distribution and safe passes. All of them are basic dm stuff.  I saw similar stuff with Rodri yesterday and I won't say city dominated the game because of Rodri. It was actually quite similar to spurs. Bournnemouth could not do any build up so it was easy for City to dominate. 

 

 

 

 

Rice hasn't been at a top club but from watching him play for England he isn't able to do what Jorginho does. He doesn't have the distribution skills. Frenkie De Jong would be a much better shout for that role. Declan Rice is more of a box to box destroyer like Kante.

1 hour ago, timetowaste said:

Awful mistake from Jorgi but all round he was brilliant. There aren't many midfielders in world football that can run a game the way he did against a good team, no chance we would play the way we did today with someone like Declan Rice instead.

Speaking of which, Dean Henderson practically ended his penalty taking career live on TV.

Edited August 14, 20223 yr by Argo

35 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

What cost us is the ref, not our players. If you think otherwise, feel free to blame a lot more than just Jorginho because the second goal was the one that actually cost us the win.

The ref not thinking hair pulling is a foul is what cost us, yes. But I also saw yet another mistake from Jorginho that led to us conceding a goal. Obviously Tuchel knows more than I do but I don’t feel confident with Jorginho on the ball. 

8 hours ago, Bob stark said:

although jorgi played very well, that is not the key reason why we were so dominant. 

Big part of the reason at the very least. Our pressing was another reason why we were so dominant yesterday but Jorginho played no little role in outplaying them. Pulled the strings and kept Tottenham running between the ball.

9 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Big part of the reason at the very least. Our pressing was another reason why we were so dominant yesterday but Jorginho played no little role in outplaying them. Pulled the strings and kept Tottenham running between the ball.

Jorginho had a good game but it was Kante that, as usual, ran the show. His influence is so widespread all over the pitch there really is no other player in the EPL who comes remotely close to him. Winning the ball, driving forwards, interceptions, recovery tackles, involved in the second goal. He didn't make an error IMO until the 56th minute when he underhit a pass. Jorginho made a poor, unforced error as early as the 2nd minute which we were fortunate to get away with.

 

 

3 minutes ago, just said:

Jorginho had a good game but it was Kante that, as usual, ran the show. His influence is so widespread all over the pitch there really is no other player in the EPL who comes remotely close to him. Winning the ball, driving forwards, interceptions, recovery tackles, involved in the second goal. He didn't make an error IMO until the 56th minute when he underhit a pass. Jorginho made a poor, unforced error as early as the 2nd minute which we were fortunate to get away with.

 

 

Kante needs to be wrapped in bubble wrap and saved for the big games. Maybe had he had the Everton game off he does not do his hammy today.

1 minute ago, just said:

Jorginho had a good game but it was Kante that, as usual, ran the show. His influence is so widespread all over the pitch there really is no other player in the EPL who comes remotely close to him. Winning the ball, driving forwards, interceptions, recovery tackles, involved in the second goal. He didn't make an error IMO until the 56th minute when he underhit a pass. Jorginho made a poor, unforced error as early as the 2nd minute which we were fortunate to get away with.

 

 

Kante was also great. I've said that.

They both complemented eachother very nicely yesterday. In my opinion Jorginho was more influential when we had the ball which was most of the time but i'm sure you'll disagree with that. And yes, Jorgi made a mistake but let's not harp on about that forever shall we. God knows Kante have made plenty every season as well.

 

 

12 minutes ago, Sindre said:

They both complemented eachother very nicely yesterday. In my opinion Jorginho was more influential when we had the ball which was most of the time but i'm sure you'll disagree with that. And yes, Jorgi made a mistake but let's not harp on about that forever shall we. God knows Kante have made plenty every season as well.

All players make mistakes it's part of the game Sindre. I'm sure a few people will mention the Kante intercepted pass last season against Madrid which led to that worldy goal, but the fact is Kante doesn't make as many costly mistakes, or unforced errors in dangerous areas of the pitch as Jorginho. Neither does Kovacic.

IMO J5 is similar to David Luiz in that respect, capable of having a very good game and then having a complete brain fart which undoes any previous good work.

 

27 minutes ago, just said:

All players make mistakes it's part of the game Sindre. I'm sure a few people will mention the Kante intercepted pass last season against Madrid which led to that worldy goal, but the fact is Kante doesn't make as many costly mistakes, or unforced errors in dangerous areas of the pitch as Jorginho. Neither does Kovacic.

IMO J5 is similar to David Luiz in that respect, capable of having a very good game and then having a complete brain fart which undoes any previous good work.

 

Strongly disagree just.

Kante made three major mistakes in that one game v Real Madrid you mentioned. Twice it lead to a goal and once it lead to a massive bollocking by Rudiger.

Here is the example if you wanted to see it.

 

1 hour ago, Sindre said:

Kante was also great. I've said that.

They both complemented eachother very nicely yesterday. In my opinion Jorginho was more influential when we had the ball which was most of the time but i'm sure you'll disagree with that. And yes, Jorgi made a mistake but let's not harp on about that forever shall we. God knows Kante have made plenty every season as well.

 

 

Jorginho + Kante is a good partnership, it's the kind of player like Jorginho is, that brings the best out of Kante, anything else just doesn't work as good.

Edited August 15, 20223 yr by Gol15

12 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Strongly disagree just.

Kante made three major mistakes in that one game v Real Madrid you mentioned. Twice it lead to a goal and once it lead to a massive bollocking by Rudiger.

Here is the example if you wanted to see it.

 

It would be great, to illustrate your argument, if you could provide 3 or 4 clips of different games in which Kante making mistakes has led directly to goals conceded.

The Rudiger clip is not a mistake in a dangerous part of the pitch is it? Kante is 12 yards inside the other half of the pitch when he treads on the ball. As I said before, Kante does not make anywhere near as many unforced errors and mistakes in dangerous areas of the pitch as Jorginho does. That is just a fact.