Just now, just said:

Whatever!

Out of curiosity what's your stance? Because you keep belitting people without putting your cards on the table. Now reading between the lines (correct me if i'm wrong) you still think he should be getting 90 every game so with that in mind do you honestly believe he's still everybit as good/fresh as he was circa 15-18 or is it more that he should still be totally untouchable until he decides otherwise because he's Kante?

On 10/08/2022 at 08:21, dkw said:

But do they, Tuchel had the worst home record of any manager we had under Abramovich last season, it was abysmal. We lost 2 finals without scoring a goal, got nowhere near the top 2 in the league and scraped 2 top 4 finishes both years.

That’s a fairly pessimistic view , if you wanted to spin it positively you could say highest points total in 5 years and 2 penalty shootout losses final without conceding a goal to the 2nd/3rd best team in the world, in addition to winning two pieces of silverware. 
 

Imo the truth lies somewhere in between, ultimately a Dissapointing season in terms of trophies won, but with a good few positives to take in addition to a lot of improvement needed. 

We need to talk about the Elephant in the room.

A very shaky start to the game but then he grew into it and played well. But undone all the good work in an instant for their first goal and TT hauled him straight off. 

He was playing so well. I was about to put him as man of the match then he did a bonehead move of trying a dragback flick when sandwiched between two guys. 

Come on Jorgi. You're better than that! 

4 minutes ago, just said:

We need to talk about the Elephant in the room.

A very shaky start to the game but then he grew into it and played well. But undone all the good work in an instant for their first goal and TT hauled him straight off. 

Sadly it isn't the first time. I can remember a few other games where he had amazing performances that got undone by a mistake.

He was having a brilliant game apart from his mistake during the first five minutes. But he's overplaying too often. You can't do that in your own penalty area against two Spurs players.

21 minutes ago, just said:

We need to talk about the Elephant in the room.

A very shaky start to the game but then he grew into it and played well. But undone all the good work in an instant for their first goal and TT hauled him straight off. 

True. Brilliant game, completely undone by the mistake. You do not f**k about in your own penalty area when you're surrounded by the opposition, it needs to be booted out. I remember Arsenal being undone countless times in the Wenger years. We have that problem now. Most of the goals we concede come from very bad errors from our players, and it's happened again today.

16 minutes ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

Sadly it isn't the first time. I can remember a few other games where he had amazing performances that got undone by a mistake.

Whenever he is caught in tight spaces with opponents around him he struggles and the ball is often turned-over. In this instance it resulted in a goal. If he doesn't have an "out" ball available he doesn't have the dribbling ability, strength or pace to get himself free in those situations. It is a weakness in his game that he can often get away with further up the pitch but when it happens in and around our box, it's much more costly.

23 minutes ago, just said:

We need to talk about the Elephant in the room.

A very shaky start to the game but then he grew into it and played well. But undone all the good work in an instant for their first goal and TT hauled him straight off. 

I thought he had a good game. Not bothered with mistake, it is what it is. 

Of course good game depend on whether you think he is a dm or a pass master+tempo setter+deep lying playmaker maestro.  If you think he is a dm, then he had a fantastic game. For the 2nd, mehh. 

34 minutes ago, just said:

A very shaky start to the game but then he grew into it and played well. But undone all the good work in an instant for their first goal and TT hauled him straight off. 

Doesn't mean he wasn't brilliant except that one mistake when he was on the pitch. Because he genuinely was and he controlled that game to a T.

And that should be a promising sign for the season. At least if his companions in midfield can stay fit. Availability is also an ability and unfortunately the rest aren't as good as Jorginho at that.

51 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

True. Brilliant game, completely undone by the mistake. You do not f**k about in your own penalty area when you're surrounded by the opposition, it needs to be booted out. I remember Arsenal being undone countless times in the Wenger years. We have that problem now. Most of the goals we concede come from very bad errors from our players, and it's happened again today.

The goal was a clear offside, nothing to do with Jorginho as it shouldn't have stand.

4 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

The goal was a clear offside, nothing to do with Jorginho as it shouldn't have stand.

Well, it was. He was surrounded by Tottenham players, tried a drag back and then tried to pass it out of defence when there was no pass on. Offisde or not (I think it was) it doesn't mean Jorginho didn't make a mistake. If he doesn't make that mistake, Tottenham don't get a shot on goal.

1 minute ago, Scott Harris said:

Well, it was. He was surrounded by Tottenham players, tried a drag back and then tried to pass it out of defence when there was no pass on. Offisde or not (I think it was) it doesn't mean Jorginho didn't make a mistake. If he doesn't make that mistake, Tottenham don't get a shot on goal.

An irregular goal isn't the fault of any player, if we are going to respect the rules of the game there is no way to blame Jorginho for the goal, Tuchel said t himself.

Just now, Gol15 said:

An irregular goal isn't the fault of any player, if we are going to respect the rules of the game there is no way to blame Jorginho for the goal, Tuchel said t himself.

Oh come on Gol, he made a mistake, everybody knows it. Tuchel pulled him off immediately after. You're a big Jorginho fan, that is fine, but it's fanboyish to say that Jorginho should take no blame for the goal.

Awful mistake from Jorgi but all round he was brilliant. There aren't many midfielders in world football that can run a game the way he did against a good team, no chance we would play the way we did today with someone like Declan Rice instead.

He just got cocky in the moment on the edge of our box, not really a feature of his game and I expect him to play it safe next time. Just have to move on.

3 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

Oh come on Gol, he made a mistake, everybody knows it. Tuchel pulled him off immediately after. You're a big Jorginho fan, that is fine, but it's fanboyish to say that Jorginho should take no blame for the goal.

Tuchel didn't do that, he clearly said the opposite of what you're saying so please don't blame Tuchel for being fanboyish by proxy, and think a little bit;

How is it the fault of a player that an irregular goal was given?

It's one thing to say if a player doesn't lose the ball there is no problem, but the goal isn't according to the rules of the game which is totally different, if Mendy loses the ball after someone punches him in the face and the ref says the goal stands is it also the fault of Mendy? We both know it wouldn't be.

Just now, timetowaste said:

Awful mistake from Jorgi but all round he was brilliant. There aren't many midfielders in world football that can run a game the way he did against a good team, no chance we would play the way we did today with someone like Declan Rice instead.

This is why I don't want a player like Rice when we eventually bring somebody in to replace Jorginho. As frustrating as it is seeing Jorginho not being able to maintain this form all season, it's a brilliant sight watching us dominate possession in midfield like we did today and I would hate to lose that. This is why I want De Jong. People are saying he would come in to play in the same position as Kante or Kovacic, but I think he looks like the perfect player to come in for Jorginho. I don't see it happening though. Tuchel wants Fofana and Aubameyang and I don't see us spending anymore money after that.

Just now, Gol15 said:

Tuchel didn't do that, he clearly said the opposite of what you're saying so please don't blame Tuchel for being fanboyish by proxy, and think a little bit;

How is it the fault of a player that an irregular goal was given?

It's one thing to say if a player doesn't lose the ball there is no problem, but the goal isn't according to the rules of the game which is totally different, if Mendy loses the ball after someone punches him in the face and the ref says the goal stands is it also the fault of Mendy? We both know it wouldn't be.

That is a ridiculous comparison. Jorginho wasn't even fouled, he just had to clear it away, but he got himself in a mess by not releasing it quickly and Tottenham got a shot away and scored from it.

You're basically saying that just because a player was standing in an offside position, Jorginho can't be at fault. Have you never heard of playing to the whistle?

7 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

This is why I don't want a player like Rice when we eventually bring somebody in to replace Jorginho. As frustrating as it is seeing Jorginho not being able to maintain this form all season, it's a brilliant sight watching us dominate possession in midfield like we did today and I would hate to lose that. This is why I want De Jong. People are saying he would come in to play in the same position as Kante or Kovacic, but I think he looks like the perfect player to come in for Jorginho. I don't see it happening though. Tuchel wants Fofana and Aubameyang and I don't see us spending anymore money after that.

I agree, De Jong would be a Jorgi replacement for sure, have him alongside Kovacic and we'd have a complete 2 man midfield.

 

Gol, we've gotta take the L here bro, it was clearly a massive cock up by Jorgi 

Had a very good game but a bad mistake that lead to the goal, he will be seeing a lot of minutes this year with Kante/kovas injuries. 

12 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

This is why I don't want a player like Rice when we eventually bring somebody in to replace Jorginho. As frustrating as it is seeing Jorginho not being able to maintain this form all season, it's a brilliant sight watching us dominate possession in midfield like we did today and I would hate to lose that. This is why I want De Jong. People are saying he would come in to play in the same position as Kante or Kovacic, but I think he looks like the perfect player to come in for Jorginho. I don't see it happening though. Tuchel wants Fofana and Aubameyang and I don't see us spending anymore money after that.

What ?  

We dominated possession today because purs could not do any build up. When your opp cannot get forward, it is very easy to dominate the ball. 

I remembered Jorginho played equally well or maybe even better against pool in fa cup final. I remembered we were dominated by pool for the large spell of that game because we couldn't press them. 

Edited August 14, 20223 yr by Bob stark

3 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

That is a ridiculous comparison. Jorginho wasn't even fouled, he just had to clear it away, but he got himself in a mess by not releasing it quickly and Tottenham got a shot away and scored from it.

You're basically saying that just because a player was standing in an offside position, Jorginho can't be at fault. Have you never heard of playing to the whistle?

But the goal itself is irregular, it's against the rules to score a goal there when Richarlison is clearly offside and clearly covering the view of Mendy. Or if we are to go further back, if the clear foul on Havertz is given Jorginho doesn't lose the ball there to begin with.

Do you understand now why Tuchel said that Jorginho isn't guilty for the irregular goal? A player gave the ball away, someone shot from outside of the box and Mendy didn't save it due to the fact that the ref and VAR simply ignored the rules of the game.

1 minute ago, Dubair said:

Had a very good game but a bad mistake that lead to the goal, he will be seeing a lot of minutes this year with Kante/kovas injuries. 

My fear with this is that I expect him to suffer from burn out again. His season was pretty much done by March, he carried that midfield before then with all of those injuries to Kovacic and Kante, but it caught up with him in the end and you could see how fatigued he was. Italy not qualifying for the world cup probably knocked his confidence too.

We took a gamble with our midfield this season and already it's not paying off with both Kante and Kovacic suffering with the same problems as last season.

4 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

What ?  

We dominated possession today because purs could not do any build up. When your opp cannot get forward, it is very easy to dominate the ball. 

I remembered Jorginho played equally well or maybe even better against pool in fa cup final. I remembered we were dominated by pool for the large spell of that game because we couldn't press them. 

What do you mean by what? I haven't said anything that disagrees with what you wrote here.