On 08/08/2022 at 15:59, dkw said:

And there in lies the problem, Tuchel is too risk free, too controlling to allow us to play with attacking intent that MIGHT expose the midfield or defence, he simply won't relax that micro managed formula, each player has a specific role with a primary base of don't lose the ball, play percentage passes, don't take risks, Jorginho suits him prefectly. This leads to the tedious, stunted dross we are currently "enjoying"...

I may not like our football and let's just be honest it is unwatchable at times but the result speak itself. 

In term of Jorgi, imo he is doing a fine job. We need a player who can sit, don't lose the ball and distribute. Basically do basic stuff, let the better player do the hard stuff. Is he doing this? Yes. 

I have said many times, jorgi should be very likeable. He is doing a very fine job. The problem lies when we start saying jorgi is a tempo setter, playmaker, passer extraordinaire and start comparing him to eriksen, thiago or even cesc now that is different. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

I may not like our football and let's just be honest it is unwatchable at times but the result speak itself. 

 

But do they, Tuchel had the worst home record of any manager we had under Abramovich last season, it was abysmal. We lost 2 finals without scoring a goal, got nowhere near the top 2 in the league and scraped 2 top 4 finishes both years.

Edited August 10, 20223 yr by dkw

14 minutes ago, dkw said:

But do they, Tuchel had the worst home record of any manager we had under Abramovich last season, it was abysmal. We lost 2 finals without scoring a goal, got nowhere near the top 2 in the league and scraped 2 top 4 finishes both years.

I tend to agree and unfortunately instead of excitement for the new season I'm already feeling nervous .

 

15 minutes ago, dkw said:

But do they, Tuchel had the worst home record of any manager we had under Abramovich last season, it was abysmal. We lost 2 finals without scoring a goal, got nowhere near the top 2 in the league and scraped 2 top 4 finishes both years.

I am not overly concerned that we finished far from top 2 as long as we get to top 4. I don't think this squad can get 90 points. So let's just slowly build a better team and finish in top 4 while improving the team slowly.

At the same time, imo we are as good as any team in the world at knockout football . Yes we didn't score in 2 finals but pool also didn't score in 3 finals 🙄🙄

Let's just see what happen next season, both Jorgi and Kante are out of contract. Let's see what Tuchel will do with those two. 

 

56 minutes ago, dkw said:

But do they, Tuchel had the worst home record of any manager we had under Abramovich last season, it was abysmal. We lost 2 finals without scoring a goal, got nowhere near the top 2 in the league and scraped 2 top 4 finishes both years.

Our home form has been far from ideal for the last 5 seasons, and way short of what would be required to compete for the title.

2017/18  won 11 drawn 4 lost 4 - Conte

2018/19 won 12 drawn 6 lost 1 - Sarri

2019/20 won 11 drawn 3 lost 5 - Lampard

2020/21 won 9 drawn 7 lost 3 - Lampard/Tuchel

2021/22 won 9 drawn 6 lost 4 - Tuchel

That doesn't look like a Tuchel problem to me, when it is by and large the same under 5 different managers. It's a squad quality problem, which Boehly and Tuchel are trying to fix.

I think Tuchel did really well last season ... by some distance the worst season I can remember for any team for disruption, injuries, illness and off field factors (since 1958 anyway)

And our away form was at least almost on a par with our record when we last won the title ... 12-4-3 vs Conte's 13-3-3, so you need to credit TT with that surely ?

I think we are going in the right direction, albeit the football is still pretty turgid to watch at times.

Also noteworthy that we lost those 2 finals last season without conceding a goal - which is actually pretty unlucky rather than the picture you are trying to create that it is all TT's fault.

1 hour ago, dkw said:

But do they, Tuchel had the worst home record of any manager we had under Abramovich last season, it was abysmal. We lost 2 finals without scoring a goal, got nowhere near the top 2 in the league and scraped 2 top 4 finishes both years.

We also didn't concede any, the guy had coached a 2/3-0 win in the carabao cup final but was let down (as usual) by our attackers missing big chances. Also let down by sh*te VAR but we won't get into that 

4 hours ago, Bob stark said:

I may not like our football and let's just be honest it is unwatchable at times but the result speak itself. 

In term of Jorgi, imo he is doing a fine job. We need a player who can sit, don't lose the ball and distribute. Basically do basic stuff, let the better player do the hard stuff. Is he doing this? Yes. 

I have said many times, jorgi should be very likeable. He is doing a very fine job. The problem lies when we start saying jorgi is a tempo setter, playmaker, passer extraordinaire and start comparing him to eriksen, thiago or even cesc now that is different. 

 

 

But do we though? Really, a player who is picked just to do the basics? I'd like to see us try something different and have another player who can screen the back line when required but can also perhaps carry the ball forwards, go past an opponent, get forward if circumstances allow, be stronger in a tackle, offer more in the air etc. Rodrigo and Rice are players who do this. I think we will also see Bissouma doing this for Spurs this season. 

 

37 minutes ago, just said:

But do we though? Really, a player who is picked just to do the basics? I'd like to see us try something different and have another player who can screen the back line when required but can also perhaps carry the ball forwards, go past an opponent, get forward if circumstances allow, be stronger in a tackle, offer more in the air etc. Rodrigo and Rice are players who do this. I think we will also see Bissouma doing this for Spurs this season. 

 

J5 is okay at doing the bare basics but you really notice what you're missing in that position when you compare him to Rodri.

1 hour ago, just said:

But do we though? Really, a player who is picked just to do the basics? I'd like to see us try something different and have another player who can screen the back line when required but can also perhaps carry the ball forwards, go past an opponent, get forward if circumstances allow, be stronger in a tackle, offer more in the air etc. Rodrigo and Rice are players who do this. I think we will also see Bissouma doing this for Spurs this season. 

 

I agree with you that a different type of DM will be more fun. 

But in the end it all depends on what football that you want to play. For Tuchel heavy possession football, jorgi is actually fine. The problem with jorgi is that have you seen jorgi type player in elite football in the last 5-10 years? The closest comparison that I can think of is harry winks. 

 

 

 

 

23 hours ago, BKLYNProdigy said:

He made it despite the odds, only fitting that he's one of our blue lions and not just another stooge of Pep in City.

So is it him and De Jong TT wants to pair together?

8 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

So is it him and De Jong TT wants to pair together?

I'd imagine it would give us two pivot pair options ... De Jong/Kante and Jorginho/Kovacic ...

8 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

So is it him and De Jong TT wants to pair together?

Healthy rotation between them to begin with, a perfect balance, before Frenkinho takes over in a few months.

1 minute ago, Sexyfootball said:

I'd imagine it would give us two pivot pair options ... De Jong/Kante and Jorginho/Kovacic ...

Maybe. But interesting to see who the first choice is. In general TT appears to favour the Kante and Jorgi combo.

If we got De Jong I'd personally pick De Jong and Kovacic as the 2 man midfield. It wouldn't surprise me if Jorginho went to Juve if the money was right for us with Rabiot leaving and Jorgi being in the last year of his contract.

6 minutes ago, timetowaste said:

If we got De Jong I'd personally pick De Jong and Kovacic as the 2 man midfield. It wouldn't surprise me if Jorginho went to Juve if the money was right for us with Rabiot leaving and Jorgi being in the last year of his contract.

I'd rather sell Kante than Jorginho.

I can't see us letting Jorgi go for the miniscule fee we'd be offered due to his age and contract situation, I think we'll keep him around this season and in truth I'd like us to extend him.

De Jong, Kovacic and are both fantastic on the ball so we're going to have most of the possession whenever we play (Unless against City) so when we're deciding who else to keep it would make much more sense to keep someone who's suited to the style most of our games will play Like Jorgi.

Can't have our current top scorer move for a pittance either.

Edited August 10, 20223 yr by HazardousChoice

6 minutes ago, HazardousChoice said:

I'd rather sell Kante than Jorginho.

I can't see us letting Jorgi go for the miniscule fee we'd be offered due to his age and contract situation, I think we'll keep him around this season and in truth I'd like us to extend him.

De Jong, Kovacic and are both fantastic on the ball so we're going to have most of the possession whenever we play (Unless against City) so when we're deciding who else to keep it would make much more sense to keep someone who's suited to the style most of our games will play Like Jorgi.

Can't have our current top scorer move for a pittance either.

I'd agree, I'm just more thinking which of them is the most likely, we know Juve have an interest in Jorgi and they're about to sell a CM so might be looking for a replacement.

10 minutes ago, timetowaste said:

 I'm just more thinking which of them is the most likely ...

Probably be Gallagher LOL 

6 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Probably be Gallagher LOL 

Maybe a loan, selling Conor with Jorgi and Kante out of contract next season would be a bit daft 

21 minutes ago, HazardousChoice said:

I'd rather sell Kante than Jorginho.

I can't see us letting Jorgi go for the miniscule fee we'd be offered due to his age and contract situation, I think we'll keep him around this season and in truth I'd like us to extend him.

De Jong, Kovacic and are both fantastic on the ball so we're going to have most of the possession whenever we play (Unless against City) so when we're deciding who else to keep it would make much more sense to keep someone who's suited to the style most of our games will play Like Jorgi.

Can't have our current top scorer move for a pittance either.

I'm a bit torn. On one hand with his minutes managed correctly (akin to Conte/Cesc 16/17) i do believe we can still get world class performances out of him but on the other if Tuchel is going to pretend it's still 2017 (which unfortunately given his words and actions appears to be the case) which will just lead to a knackered/ineffective Kante i can't say i'd be too upset if he got overuled.

I really do enjoy watching the Jorgi/Kova/Mount axis and i imagine i would even more so if FDJ was in the formers place.

50 minutes ago, Argo said:

I'm a bit torn. On one hand with his minutes managed correctly (akin to Conte/Cesc 16/17) i do believe we can still get world class performances out of him but on the other if Tuchel is going to pretend it's still 2017 (which unfortunately given his words and actions appears to be the case) which will just lead to a knackered/ineffective Kante i can't say i'd be too upset if he got overuled.

I really do enjoy watching the Jorgi/Kova/Mount axis and i imagine i would even more so if FDJ was in the formers place.

Well I think that in 1 year time we'll be looking at FDJ and Gallagher as our first choice combinations, I don't believe that Jorginho and Kante will extend their contracts.

https://www.givemesport.com/1828768-ngolo-kantes-highlights-in-twitter-thread-prove-just-how-brilliant-the-chelsea-midfielder-is

4 hours ago, HazardousChoice said:

I'd rather sell Kante than Jorginho.

I can't see us letting Jorgi go for the miniscule fee we'd be offered due to his age and contract situation, I think we'll keep him around this season and in truth I'd like us to extend him.

De Jong, Kovacic and are both fantastic on the ball so we're going to have most of the possession whenever we play (Unless against City) so when we're deciding who else to keep it would make much more sense to keep someone who's suited to the style most of our games will play Like Jorgi.

Can't have our current top scorer move for a pittance either.

This is worth watching. All of it.

Edited August 10, 20223 yr by just

19 minutes ago, just said:

This is worth watching. All of it.

I know you didn't quote me but I've just had a look at both bits of material you've provided. The overwhelming majority of the clips have come at either Leicester/under Conte/the WC (his absolute peak years) or the first few months of TT (when he was being adequately rotated to maintain his freshness and protecting him from the niggling injures he is now phrone too). 

If anything that's vindicated my stance not lessened it.

17 hours ago, Argo said:

I know you didn't quote me but I've just had a look at both bits of material you've provided. The overwhelming majority of the clips have come at either Leicester/under Conte/the WC (his absolute peak years) or the first few months of TT (when he was being adequately rotated to maintain his freshness and protecting him from the niggling injures he is now phrone too). 

If anything that's vindicated my stance not lessened it.

Whatever!