2 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Yeah Jorginho had a crap game that day and cost us. And he's had other games where he's been completely sh*te as well.

Have anyone disputed that? I think most of these so called "Jorginho-lovers" are nuanced enough to agree with that.

If anything it's you and some others that completely lack nuance and get completely overfocused on Jorginho's flaws and never want to give him credit for his good qualities. He's for example got the most interceptions, tackles, blocks and big chances created (alongside Kovacic) than any of our midfielders. Surely you can forgive some for thinking the people that continue with this "Jorginho is sh*t" nonense are a bit idiotic?

Can you post up the link to those stats?

2 minutes ago, just said:

Can you post up the link to those stats?

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/interception

Official Premier League stats there. Just use the filter too sort. 

58 minutes ago, Sindre said:

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/interception

Official Premier League stats there. Just use the filter too sort. 

OK I'm not stats guy by any stretch of the imagination but I'm happy to take them into account. Looked at your figures for the EPL only and then ran them through Whoscored.com as their figures are based on the actual minutes played by each player, and Jorginho has had 429 minutes more of EPL game time than Kante and 481 minutes more than Kova. Therefore they give a truer representation of mean averages per player per game in the EPL only.

So,  offensive stats first. Assists - Kova 5, Kante 4, Jorginho 2. Key passes per game - Kova 1, Kante 0.8, Jorginho 0.8. Dribbles - Kova 1.6, Kante 1.4, Jorginho 0.5. Dispossesed - Kante 1.1, Jorginho 0.8, Kova 0.8. Unsuccesful touches (loss of control) - Kova 0.7, Jorginho 0.9, Kante 1.1. Goals - Jorginho 6, Kante 2, Kova 2 (obviously Jorginho leads as the penalty taker).

Defensive stats next. Tackles - Kante 2.2, Kova 2.2, Jorginho 2. Dribbled past per game - Kante 0.5, Kova 0.7, Jorginho 2 (that is a BIG margin and highlights what many people feel, that it is easy to go past Jorgi). Interceptions - Jorginho 1.1, Kante 1.0, Kova 0.3. Clearances - Jorginho 0.7, Kante 0.4, Kova 0.4. Fouls conceded - Kante 0.5, Kova 1.0, Jorginho 1.1 Yellow cards recd - Kante 1, Kova 4, Jorginho 4.

Passing stats. Pass success rate - Kova 88.8%, Jorginho 88.6%, Kante 85.2%. Average no. of passes - Jorginho 61.2, Kova 49.3, Kante 45.5 ( a big margin in Jorgi's favour,). Key passes per game -  Kova 1, Kante 0.8, Jorginho 0.8. Long balls attempted - Kova 2.3, Jorginho 2.1, Kante 1.3. Through balls - Kova 0.3, Jorginho 0.2, Kante 0.1

Overall player ratings to date this season - Kova 7.12, Kante 6.97, Jorginho 6.93

Edited April 23, 20224 yr by just

6 minutes ago, just said:

OK I'm not stats guy by any stretch of the imagination but I'm happy to take them into account. Looked at your figures for the EPL only and then ran them through Whoscored.com as their figures are based on the actual minutes played by each player, and Jorginho has had 429 minutes more of EPL game time than Kante and 481 minutes more than Kova. Therefore they give a truer representation of mean averages per player per game.

So,  offensive stats first. Assists - Kova 5, Kante 4, Jorginho 2. Key passes per game - Kova 1, Kante 0.8, Jorginho 0.8. Dribbles - Kova 1.6, Kante 1.4, Jorginho 0.5. Dispossesed - Kante 1.1, Jorginho 0.8, Kova 0.8. Unsuccesful touches (loss of control) - Kova 0.7, Jorginho 0.9, Kante 1.1. Goals - Jorginho 6, Kante 2, Kova 2 (obviously Jorginho leads as the penalty taker).

Defensive stats next. Tackles - Kante 2.2, Kova 2.2, Jorginho 2. Dribbled past per game - Kante 0.5, Kova 0.7, Jorginho 2 (that is a BIG margin and highlights what many people feel, that it is easy to go past Jorgi). Interceptions - Jorginho 1.1, Kante 1.0, Kova 0.3. Clearances - Jorginho 0.7, Kante 0.4, Kova 0.4. Fouls conceded - Kante 0.5, Kova 1.0, Jorginho 1.1

Passing stats. Pass success rate - Kova 88.8%, Jorginho 88.6%, Kante 85.2%. Average no. of passes - Jorginho 61.2, Kova 49.3, Kante 45.5 ( a big margin in Jorgi's favour,). Key passes per game -  Kova 1, Kante 0.8, Jorginho 0.8. Long balls attempted - Kova 2.3, Jorginho 2.1, Kante 1.3. Through balls - Kova 0.3, Jorginho 0.2, Kante 0.1

Overall player ratings to date this season - Kova 7.12, Kante 6.97, Jorginho 6.93

Good post just.

I'm done here now. Mod is deleting my profile but thanks for some good discussions over the years. Jorginho we will never ever agree on but that's fine. I just hope some stop calling him a piece of sh*t and he gets a littlebit more respect around here.

Goodbye.

11 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Good post just.

I'm done here now. Mod is deleting my profile but thanks for some good discussions over the years. Jorginho we will never ever agree on but that's fine. I just hope some stop calling him a piece of sh*t and he gets a littlebit more respect around here.

Goodbye.

Well I hope you change your mind and stick around Sindre. Nope, we are not going to agree on Jorginho but that's all part and parcel of posting on football. People will like some players and not others. It's all subjective and so long as you can put forward your reasoning for your opinion, that's fair enough. But expect others with a different point of view to produce a counter-argument.

Personally I have never called Jorginho or any other Chelsea player "a piece of sh*t". Not even Gallas when he went to Tottenham in his prime. To repeat again, Jorginho for me has very good technical ability but unfortunately is too limited as an athlete, and his physical limitations / lack of athleticism outweigh his technical skills. And, yes this Jorginho thread is polarising. But it's nothing we haven't had on here before. The Torres thread will never be topped in that respect. I'm sure there are some on here who still secretly think he could return and bang in 30+ goals for us!

 

2 hours ago, just said:

West Bromwich Albion put 5 past us when Jorginho was playing Gol.

That was last season, sorry.

3 hours ago, Argo said:

Just saw a clip of Klopp being asked if Thiago (a similar type of player and one getting similar stick to Jorgi) slows their play down and he burst out laughing.

Goes to show the level of knowledge that goes into those kind of takes.

8 hours ago, Bob stark said:

The most polarizing player I have seen in Chelsea shirt.

It's karmic retribution the universe has aimed me personally for having been such a vocal defender of Mikel for so many years.

6 hours ago, Argo said:

Just saw a clip of Klopp being asked if Thiago (a similar type of player and one getting similar stick to Jorgi) slows their play down and he burst out laughing.

I’d swap Jorgi for Thiago in a heartbeat. A more complete player than our own Jorginho.

2 minutes ago, RMH said:

I’d swap Jorgi for Thiago in a heartbeat. A more complete player than our own Jorginho.

It's the Barca education for you. We saw it ourselves with how good Cesc was.

7 hours ago, Argo said:

Just saw a clip of Klopp being asked if Thiago (a similar type of player and one getting similar stick to Jorgi) slows their play down and he burst out laughing.

Did you just say Thiago is similar to Jorgi 😱😱😱and Thiago slow down play. 

Like what I have said a couple time, Jorgi should be far more likeable if we don't hear this kind of stuff

 

Edited April 23, 20224 yr by Bob stark

37 minutes ago, RMH said:

I’d swap Jorgi for Thiago in a heartbeat. A more complete player than our own Jorginho.

It is not more complete. It is different level. 

35 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

It's the Barca education for you. We saw it ourselves with how good Cesc was.

Not sure it is Barca education. Those two simply have more talent

3 hours ago, PloKoon13 said:

It's karmic retribution the universe has aimed me personally for having been such a vocal defender of Mikel for so many years.

😁😁 If Jorgi is considered wc, Mikel is  goat and Matic is a god

7 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

It is not more complete. It is different level. 

Yes, I didn’t want to put it so blunt, but comparing Jorgi to Thiago is not ideal.

It's not about whether he is good enough to be a starter but if can he be part of the squad. I think he is more likely to retain his effectiveness for longer than Kante because Kante relies a lot on his physicality and unfortunately he looks like he's breaking down.

I think Kante could still fetch a good price and we could make someone overpay for him whilst giving Jorginho a new contract and buying a new midfielder, I don't think it's realistic to buy 2 in the same window whilst addressing all the other holes in the squad.

26 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Did you just say Thiago slow down play. 

Read my post again, I said a journalist asked that question to Klopp.

27 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Did you just say Thiago is similar to Jorgi

In the sense that both are underappreciated in this country due to the obsession with blood and thunder DM's.

And if he came here and had the first season he did at Liverpool let's not pretend his thread wouldn't have gone down in similar fashion.

28 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Like what I have said a couple time, Jorgi should be far more likeable if we don't hear this kind of stuff

Works both ways. I've never seen a player who has contributed so much to us be so downplayed. Even Bosingwa got cut some slack after Munich.

32 minutes ago, sonic90 said:

It's not about whether he is good enough to be a starter but if can he be part of the squad. I think he is more likely to retain his effectiveness for longer than Kante because Kante relies a lot on his physicality and unfortunately he looks like he's breaking down.

I think Kante could still fetch a good price and we could make someone overpay for him whilst giving Jorginho a new contract and buying a new midfielder, I don't think it's realistic to buy 2 in the same window whilst addressing all the other holes in the squad.

Losing both or just one of them should result in a spending spree in the summer. We will lack a lot of experience and quality without either one of them.

Our starting lineup next season might look significantly different. 

52 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Losing both or just one of them should result in a spending spree in the summer. We will lack a lot of experience and quality without either one of them.

Our starting lineup next season might look significantly different. 

Ideally we keep both but something has to give I think, to buy another midfielder. Also there is the question of whether we want to give a chance to Conor next season, we don't want to have too big a squad if so. Kovacic, Gallagher, Jorginho + new midfielder like Rice maybe and then potentially Gilmour could be our squad next season.

With Kante, Saul, Barkley and possibly RLC to leave.

1 hour ago, Argo said:

Read my post again, I said a journalist asked that question to Klopp.

In the sense that both are underappreciated in this country due to the obsession with blood and thunder DM's.

And if he came here and had the first season he did at Liverpool let's not pretend his thread wouldn't have gone down in similar fashion.

Works both ways. I've never seen a player who has contributed so much to us be so downplayed. Even Bosingwa got cut some slack after Munich.

For the life of me , plus I can’t be arsed to search, I can honestly not remember anyone on here calling Thiago Alcantara. He and Jorgi are light years apart, he is just the type of player I think we all had hoped we had signed when Jorginho arrived. He transitions the ball far better and regularly spots a pass only the very best can…a la Fabregas. His only downside in his career is he is possibly a little injury prone. 

1 hour ago, Argo said:

Read my post again, I said a journalist asked that question to Klopp.

In the sense that both are underappreciated in this country due to the obsession with blood and thunder DM's.

And if he came here and had the first season he did at Liverpool let's not pretend his thread wouldn't have gone down in similar fashion.

Works both ways. I've never seen a player who has contributed so much to us be so downplayed. Even Bosingwa got cut some slack after Munich.

I think you’re wrong here, Thiago would have thrived at Chelsea as Fabregas did. I think he’s not being used to his best at Liverpool, who do not use their midfield much and the donkey of Henderson has played more than the magic foot of Thiago.

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

Losing both or just one of them should result in a spending spree in the summer. We will lack a lot of experience and quality without either one of them.

Our starting lineup next season might look significantly different. 

Why would it need a spending spree gol?

If Jorginho leaves then his spot could go to Gilmour.

If Kante leaves his spot should go to Gallagher.

And what if the new owners say "We forked out 3bill, there is nothing to spend," Then make make the best of it. Some of the youngsters are really good, others might find it tough but may be where we are left.

If they go:

 

The really promising:

Gallagher - Kante

Broja - Lukaku

Colwill - Rudiger

 

The risky and may cost us

Ampadu - Christensen

Chalobah - Dave

Gilmour - Jorginho

 

Not sure if I missed someone likely off.

 

Unless the new owners spend big snd spend on quality and not on Lukakus and Kepas we will be nowhere near City or Pool.

7 hours ago, Sindre said:

Good post just.

I'm done here now. Mod is deleting my profile but thanks for some good discussions over the years. Jorginho we will never ever agree on but that's fine. I just hope some stop calling him a piece of sh*t and he gets a littlebit more respect around here.

Goodbye.

Stick around Sindre, you’re a good poster even though I disagree with some of your views you still make valid points.

33 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

Stick around Sindre, you’re a good poster even though I disagree with some of your views you still make valid points.

Tbh apart from his ludicrous defense of Lukaku and overzealous personal shots at some members I've found myself agreeing with him on everything i remember for quite some time.

Edited April 23, 20224 yr by Argo

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

Why would it need a spending spree gol?

If Jorginho leaves then his spot could go to Gilmour.

If Kante leaves his spot should go to Gallagher.

And what if the new owners say "We forked out 3bill, there is nothing to spend," Then make make the best of it. Some of the youngsters are really good, others might find it tough but may be where we are left.

If they go:

 

The really promising:

Gallagher - Kante

Broja - Lukaku

Colwill - Rudiger

 

The risky and may cost us

Ampadu - Christensen

Chalobah - Dave

Gilmour - Jorginho

 

Not sure if I missed someone likely off.

 

Unless the new owners spend big snd spend on quality and not on Lukakus and Kepas we will be nowhere near City or Pool.

Well yea Gallagher is ready if Kante leaves and Gilmour if Jorginho leaves but that’s clearly less quality and less experience and then for a long season of 50+ matches there is no depth in the squad either.

I mean first you ask why would we need to go on a spending spree but then in the end you also say that unless we spend big it won’t be possible to compete with Man City and Liverpool.

Losing Rudiger and Christensenand possibly Dave too is huge, then losing Kante or Jorginho or both is also huge for us. We’re talking about 5 players that have been starters whenever they have been fit. That’s also losing the captain and vice captain.

Good luck to Tuchel for making a new team but without a warchest of 200m our ambitions for next season wouldn’t be to challenge Man City/Liverpool for the title but we would be fighting for top 4 which is a step back considering that even with Chilwell injured and James at times too we have been top 3 with no problems this season so far.