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Wilfred Zaha

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1 hour ago, Giordano_Bruno said:

What are you talking about, he was great. I understand that "that great" doesn't mean he wasn't great according to you, but he was really that great which is more than wasn't that great, which I find a little disrespectful,  A true, blue legend. :D 

"Solamon kalou's won the European cup the European cup"

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7 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Think they were just internet rumours - sure he said he never actually met her?!!

 

True, and I think there were also other rumours floating around at the time that he had to come back due to gang related stuff surrounding his brother. However, whether true or not I am sure this stuff goes on regularly and if you're good enough you will work your way through. The facts were that he returned because he wasn't getting any game time.

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46 minutes ago, mclovin83 said:

You could apply that logic to many players though;

De Bruyne at Chelsea. Lukaku at Chelsea. Pogba at United. 

Sometimes players don't get the chances. Sometimes players vastly improve. 

The jury is still out for me on Zaha, but when it comes to any potential transfer, his four appearances at United when he was 19-20 years old would have little effect on my judgement on it. 

I do apply that logic to those players.  There was a reason that none of them got a lot of first team appearances, and that was because, at the time, they were either pants like KdB, or thought they should replace experienced internationals  who were much better in the case of Lukaku and Pogba, both of whom had ego and attitude problems.  That they all  went on to be good is irrelevant to that argument.

Zaha was pants at United, and hasn't really shown a VAST improvement since,  and he is now whatever age he is.

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15 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

I do apply that logic to those players.  There was a reason that none of them got a lot of first team appearances, and that was because, at the time, they were either pants like KdB, or thought they should replace experienced internationals  who were much better in the case of Lukaku and Pogba, both of whom had ego and attitude problems.  That they all  went on to be good is irrelevant to that argument.

Zaha was pants at United, and hasn't really shown a VAST improvement since,  and he is now whatever age he is.

Not sure about that..... 

The point being that just because they couldn't break through at a younger age (when given limited chances) doesn't mean to say they can't be highly successful at one of the 'big' clubs when they have matured (and been given the chance). They all have done exactly that. 

I would agree Zaha hasn't shown similar levels of improvement as those other players listed (never having had the luxury of playing around world class players mind you), although I think he has probably been a bit better than you are giving him credit for!

Edited by mclovin83

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Just now, mclovin83 said:

The point being that just because they couldn't break through at a younger age (when given limited chances) doesn't mean to say they can't be highly successful at one of the 'big' clubs when they have matured (and been given the chance). They all have done exactly that. 

I would agree Zaha hasn't shown similar levels of improvement as those other players listed, although I think he has probably been a bit better than you are giving him credit for!

No, and, to be fair, I didn't say that, I said that they were not up to Chelsea first team standard at the time they were sold.  They were given limited chances because that was what they deserved at the time.  No-one in the world EVER said Salah would be player of the year, ever, and anyone who says that they saw the future improvement in KdB and Salah when they played for us is a liar.

 

43 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Because like us, they wrongly think Brazilian = Brilliant!

 

Aww bless @Nibs and you said I was taking the easy and lazy path ::MooNeY::

1 hour ago, ozboy said:

Yorky blue also thinks we did the right thing selling salah and de Bruyne so his view on this doesn’t greatly persuade me. 

OK - let's go there again.  Tell me one, just one thing that either one did in a Chelsea shirt to show what they would turn into last season.  or, for that matter, show me one sensible poster who was firmly against either being sold when they were, rather than bitch-whining about it in hindsight once they had got good.

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1 minute ago, yorkleyblue said:

No, and, to be fair, I didn't say that, I said that they were not up to Chelsea first team standard at the time they were sold.  They were given limited chances because that was what they deserved at the time.  No-one in the world EVER said Salah would be player of the year, ever, and anyone who says that they saw the future improvement in KdB and Salah when they played for us is a liar.

 

I don't disagree with any of that.... but it doesn't change the point I was making, which was that just because Zaha wasn't successful once upon a time at a 'big' club, it doesn't mean to say he couldn't be in the future. 

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2 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

You say that NOW!

 

No I genuinely mean it. I followed KDB while he was on loan and before he eventually joined us. I likened him to Beckham, on these boards. I saw his debut against Hull, where he was mighty impressive. I was dismayed by how Jose treated him. With Salah, I never criticised his performances, because I felt he needed time, although I couldn't have foreseen quite how good he'd become.

 

Anyroad up, let's not talk about KDB or Salah any more. Let's just pretend they don't exist !!

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@Davey Baby you  appear to  be flip-flopping around on the subject of Morata  like a fresh-caught mackerel on a sailor's poop deck.

Just now, mclovin83 said:

I don't disagree with any of that.... but it doesn't change the point I was making, which was that just because Zaha wasn't successful once upon a time at a 'big' club, it doesn't mean to say he couldn't be in the future. 

Nope, he might well do   so  in the future, I just don't think he has yet, not anywhere near.  Was he in the running for player of the year like the other two? 

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11 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

@Davey Baby you  appear to  be flip-flopping around on the subject of Morata  like a fresh-caught mackerel on a sailor's poop deck.

 

What's a poop deck!?

 

I'm optimistic about Morata but if we sold him and replaced him well I'd be happy, as I'm not THAT optimistic. I think he'll improve, yes, but enough? I don't know.

 

Zaha would be a risk as his replacement but I think given the choice, I'd take the risk, only because I want a bit of excitement in my life, don't you?

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19 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

Nope, he might well do   so  in the future, I just don't think he has yet, not anywhere near.  Was he in the running for player of the year like the other two? 

 *rolling eyes emoji* 

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Is he a better left winger than hazard? no.

Is he a better striker than morata, michy, or giroud? no 

is he a better right winger than Willian? no 

He's got some great attributes, pace, strength, skill, but he also has some massive flaws in his game, consistency, decision making, vision, over playing.

Sarri is a manager that has his team's play quick 1 and 2 touch football, is a player like zaha, that tends to dribble 1st, ask questions later, the right type of player? 

I'd rather keep the £60m.

 

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How much was Fekir rumoured to be going to Liverpool for? He is a much better player & has more European experience. The problem with signing players from the PL especially the homegrown ones is they are overvalued & well overrated with little resale values. Just see how difficult it is to ship out Drinkwater, no team outside the PL will touch him. Same applies to Maguire who has suddenly seen his value jump from £17m to £50m on the back of World Cup semi final showing. 

Would stay well clear of signing any PL homegrown players; promote internally & look for value continentally. 

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1 hour ago, Luca Vialli said:

He hasn't got a football brain. Would be gutted if we signed him.

Is this still about Zaha or have we wandered onto Morata re football brain, or lack of

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