1 hour ago, dansubrosa said:

Looks very miserable indeed. Frank is our chance to go long term, it’s obvious he’s not interested in managing anywhere else.

We fire him, get ready to see 5 or 6 different managers over the next decade. Same old sh*t.

Ideally he'd be safe no matter how sh*t this season may turn out to be.

With the amount of "smoke" there is with Avram, Tuchel, Allegri and so on though it seems unlikely that he'll survive even the next couple of weeks unless we win every game.
Twomey & Johnson wrote that article in The Athletic before the City-game and they claim he was on the brink of getting sacked before that disaster of a showing.

I think it's quite clear Lampard is running out of time to save his job. I think he needs to beat Fulham convincingly and also beat Leicester at King Power to give himself a littlebit of breathing space. A loss tomorrow and i'd be nervous to read the news a couple of hours later to be honest.

 

1 hour ago, dansubrosa said:

Looks very miserable indeed. Frank is our chance to go long term, it’s obvious he’s not interested in managing anywhere else.

We fire him, get ready to see 5 or 6 different managers over the next decade. Same old sh*t.

Why does everyone act like it's a bad thing? 2 of our last 3 PL title's plus our sole CL have come from being sharp to sack a manager (one of which being our greatest ever against the wish of 99% of the fanbase) when it wasn't working, now compare that to a certain team in North London rich in managerial stability.

Now don't get me wrong i'd love it if we find a long term manager and i'd love it even more to be Lamps (whether that's from turning this around or returning as a more polished manager at a later date) but until we do, Roman's methods >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Arsenal model.

2 hours ago, evissy said:

Avram and then Tuchel if things go south. What a f**king dire idea that is. Hopefully the team plays well and this duck is buried asap. 

If Tuchel is our man in waiting if Lamps goes why are we planning on delaying the appointment till the summer? He's a free agent.

22 minutes ago, Argo said:

Why does everyone act like it's a bad thing? 2 of our last 3 PL title's plus our sole CL have come from being sharp to sack a manager (one of which being our greatest ever against the wish of 99% of the fanbase) when it wasn't working, now compare that to a certain team in North London rich in managerial stability.

Now don't get me wrong i'd love it if we find a long term manager and i'd love it even more to be Lamps (whether that's from turning this around or returning as a more polished manager at a later date) but until we do, Roman's methods >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Arsenal model.

But as always, there is a middle ground.

Arsenal's problem wasn't a month of mediocre results. It was years and years and years of lowering standards that did them in.
We were top of the league 5 weeks ago. 

Everyone is tired of the "Klopp" comparison but just one last time. This is the run he had them on in 2017. Pressure was building and there was plenty of pundits and supporters that were ready to wield the axe. He survived in the end and I bet they are all glad Liverpool had a bit of patience and gave him time to get them out of their bad run.

 

16 minutes ago, Sindre said:

But as always, there is a middle ground.

Arsenal's problem wasn't a month of mediocre results. It was years and years and years of lowering standards that did them in.
We were top of the league 5 weeks ago. 

Everyone is tired of the "Klopp" comparison but just one last time. This is the run he had them on in 2017. Pressure was building and there was plenty of pundits and supporters that were ready to wield the axe. He survived in the end and I bet they are all glad Liverpool had a bit of patience and gave him time to get them out of their bad run.

 

But then on the flip side, they got Klopp because they were sharp in letting Brendan go despite him taking them to a slip from the title previously. Not to mention our current squad are levels ahead that Liverpool one.  

As i said on my previous post's it's not the results that worry me but the performances, last season we had runs of poor results but the performances and most importantly tactical blueprint were largely still there, in our recent run it's been the total opposite even when we win.

Edited January 15, 20215 yr by Argo

6 minutes ago, Argo said:

But then on the flip side, they got Klopp because they were sharp in letting Brendan go despite him taking them tp a slip from the title previously. Not to mention our current squad are levels ahead that Liverpool one.  

As i said on my previous post's it's not the results that worry me but the performances, last season we had runs of poor results but the performances and most importantly tactical blueprint were largely still there, in our recent run it's been the total opposite even when we win.

And we got Lampard because Sarri was a miserable sod 😄

But yes, everyone can find examples that fit their view. But for me it's important to remember that any manager will go on a bad run at some point. Guardiola barely won a game in two-three months back in 2016 i remember when he had a new team. Next season they become the dominant force in the league. Things can change extremely quick in football and I am not giving up hope that Lampard can turn this around.

Yeah the waiting on Tuchel makes little sense as has been said he is a free agent. He is also know to have run ins with the higher ups at the club, something Roman wont appreciate no doubt, and if he is the one wanting to wait for the summer just shows he wants his full payout from PSG more than to work.

Also what has Grant been doing to show he is capable of managing this squad any better than Frank?

I guess we will find out soon if there is fire with that smoke though as I dont expect us to beat Fulham and Leicester. 

1 hour ago, Sindre said:

Ideally he'd be safe no matter how sh*t this season may turn out to be.

With the amount of "smoke" there is with Avram, Tuchel, Allegri and so on though it seems unlikely that he'll survive even the next couple of weeks unless we win every game.
Twomey & Johnson wrote that article in The Athletic before the City-game and they claim he was on the brink of getting sacked before that disaster of a showing.

I think it's quite clear Lampard is running out of time to save his job. I think he needs to beat Fulham convincingly and also beat Leicester at King Power to give himself a littlebit of breathing space. A loss tomorrow and i'd be nervous to read the news a couple of hours later to be honest.

 

I think Frank needs to win 2 out of every 3 matches to keep his job starting with Fulham.

Falls below that ratio and for me it looks grim.

Avram might be a stop-gap yet I only see that if they think dressing room harmony is the issue.

I don't that is the case it's just that we have not been playing well in the league. 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

I think Frank needs to win 2 out of every 3 matches to keep his job starting with Fulham.

Falls below that ratio and for me it looks grim.

Avram might be a stop-gap yet I only see that if they think dressing room harmony is the issue.

I don't that is the case it's just that we have not been playing well in the league. 

 

 

I have to be honest, I sadly think for Frank to remain he not only needs to beat Fulham but the team have to play well too with the latter being the most important.

5 hours ago, dkw said:

So you honestly think having barely any pre season with the squad that included 6 new starters or any time during the season to actually coach the team and do almost nothing other than fitness work because of the lack of time between games has had no impact at all and isnt a pertinent reason (not excuse, no one is excusing him just pointing to the facts on how different this season has been)?

I dont believe it has any bearing on us looking really good against Sevilla to becoming really bad in the subsequent 5 or so games after.

I think our over reliance on high crosses is the biggest reason for our current situation. Teams can bank on that is how we will attack them and set up to defend. When Werner and Pulisic are in the line up, it does not play to their strengths. We have had weeks to sort this out and yet we keep going this route to attack. 

Just now, Zaphod2319 said:

I think our over reliance on high crosses is the biggest reason for our current situation. Teams can bank on that is how we will attack them and set up to defend. When Werner and Pulisic are in the line up, it does not play to their strengths. We have had weeks to sort this out and yet we keep going this route to attack. 

Sadly I agree, so much slow movement playing square  and safe passes until a position is reached where crosses are then made into a crowded box. The two players you mention need space in front of them and so the ball should be played earlier to them.

27 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

I dont believe it has any bearing on us looking really good against Sevilla to becoming really bad in the subsequent 5 or so games after.

No you're right, theirs definitely no evidence of clubs being much more inconsistent this season than usual is there....

1 hour ago, pcmacca said:

I have to be honest, I sadly think for Frank to remain he not only needs to beat Fulham but the team have to play well too with the latter being the most important.

And I have to be honest and say that bold bit is bollocks. 

If we scrape a drab 1-0 win in every match between now and the end of the season, that will still be 89 points, probably good enough for top 4, the FA Cup and the Champions league. 

Not one of you moaning minnies would be whingeing on about changing the manager then.

14 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

And I have to be honest and say that bold bit is bollocks. 

If we scrape a drab 1-0 win in every match between now and the end of the season, that will still be 89 points, probably good enough for top 4, the FA Cup and the Champions league. 

Not one of you moaning minnies would be whingeing on about changing the manager then.

Results always come first. I'm actually disappointed with our lack of being able to grind out results from poor performances. We've only seen it against Brighton and West Ham this season, every other time we play badly we flap and bend over backwards for teams. I suppose that's to be expected when you bring in youth and a lot of new players into the ranks. 

3 hours ago, Argo said:

Why does everyone act like it's a bad thing? 2 of our last 3 PL title's plus our sole CL have come from being sharp to sack a manager (one of which being our greatest ever against the wish of 99% of the fanbase) when it wasn't working, now compare that to a certain team in North London rich in managerial stability.

Now don't get me wrong i'd love it if we find a long term manager and i'd love it even more to be Lamps (whether that's from turning this around or returning as a more polished manager at a later date) but until we do, Roman's methods >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Arsenal model.

'Cos it is a bad thing. Majority of Chelsea fans are fed up with the merry-go-round of managers and we want a bit of stability and what better time and what better person to implement that than a club legend like Lamps.

Sure, the win, fire the coach, win again worked for a while but that is because we got top coaches like Mourinho, Ancelotti, Hiddink, and Conte. But there aren't that many great coaches out there now and we need to show a bit of faith in someone who will hopefully become one of the next top coaches.

I have always maintained there is a huge amount of luck involved in management. Even Mourinho, Guadiola, Ferguson, Wenger, Ancelotti, Klopp, Wenger etc etc have riden their luch at various times and all have periods where they don't win anything. Look how the Southampton manager has turned things around when he was on the verge of the sack after the 9-0 home defeat to Leicester and they looked relegation certs. And look at OGS at United. How we have all taken the piss and laughed at Ole at the wheel, only for them to now be top of the league!

I'm not suggesting we should stick with Lamps just because he is a club legend but I think he certainly deserves a lot more time and a bit more faith before anyone should even be contemplating a change. Fortunes can change so quickly in football and we need to get out of the habit of changing the coach every time things don't quite go according to plan.

"Frankie Lampards Blue & White Army...................................!"

 

37 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

And I have to be honest and say that bold bit is bollocks. 

If we scrape a drab 1-0 win in every match between now and the end of the season, that will still be 89 points, probably good enough for top 4, the FA Cup and the Champions league. 

Not one of you moaning minnies would be whingeing on about changing the manager then.

Well, I feel pretty confident in saying that Chelsea are not going to win every match even if it is only 1-0, so back on planet Earth.......

4 hours ago, Argo said:

Why does everyone act like it's a bad thing? 2 of our last 3 PL title's plus our sole CL have come from being sharp to sack a manager (one of which being our greatest ever against the wish of 99% of the fanbase) when it wasn't working, now compare that to a certain team in North London rich in managerial stability.

Now don't get me wrong i'd love it if we find a long term manager and i'd love it even more to be Lamps (whether that's from turning this around or returning as a more polished manager at a later date) but until we do, Roman's methods >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Arsenal model.

You are right that it's worked for us sacking managers etc.

But I thought with Frank it was a chance to build something , using the youth and young players bought in ? To build success in the long-term , we can't buy instant success like before I don't think.

 

2 minutes ago, The Rising Sun said:

You are right that it's worked for us sacking managers etc.

But I thought with Frank it was a chance to build something , using the youth and young players bought in ? To build success in the long-term , we can't buy instant success like before I don't think.

 

I believe what most people are thinking is that the idea of building a team is the best way forward but is Lampard the right person with his lack of experience? I am also sure you can understand that if Chelsea finish outside the top 6 this year the chances are he won't be taking pre-season training next year.

17 minutes ago, Nibs said:

'Cos it is a bad thing. Majority of Chelsea fans are fed up with the merry-go-round of managers and we want a bit of stability and what better time and what better person to implement that than a club legend like Lamps.

I get that in principle but that's just it principle. Furthermore we have had pretty good stability for the entire Roman tenure through our playing staff and the man himself, there's more ways to gain it then having the same person in the dugout for years.

As I said above ofcourse i'll love for us to find our Fergie, Klopp or even 90's/early 00's Wenger but going too far the other way to try and achieve that is about as far from stability as it's possible to get. Take Liverpool for example, they had Houllier and Rafa for six years each and through that entire 12 years came close to the title once, then the new owners came in and adopted a hire and fire until they found the right man policy and they've been richly rewarded (unfortunately). Imagine if they stuck to Kenny out of sentimentality or Rodgers for the sake of continuity?

10 minutes ago, The Rising Sun said:

You are right that it's worked for us sacking managers etc.

But I thought with Frank it was a chance to build something , using the youth and young players bought in ? To build success in the long-term , we can't buy instant success like before I don't think.

I don't demand instant success, we were very far from winning the title last season and under Sarri yet I was happy with the progress being made. 

All I ask for is there's encouragement/hope we are on a decent (and sustainable) track, and right this moment I don't feel we are.

28 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Sure, the win, fire the coach, win again worked for a while but that is because we got top coaches like Mourinho, Ancelotti, Hiddink, and Conte. But there aren't that many great coaches out there now and we need to show a bit of faith in someone who will hopefully become one of the next top coaches.

That's been said every time a managers job in on the line for years, there's always someone suitable if you look hard enough. For example you mention Conte, I only saw one Chelsea fan mention him as a possible next manager when Mou got fired and he was mercilessly laughed out of the room (imagine if we actually stuck with Jose instead of getting him in?).

31 minutes ago, Nibs said:

I'm not suggesting we should stick with Lamps just because he is a club legend but I think he certainly deserves a lot more time and a bit more faith before anyone should even be contemplating a change. Fortunes can change so quickly in football and we need to get out of the habit of changing the coach every time things don't quite go according to plan..

 

I hope you're right, I honestly do and I'll be going into tomorrow's game praying you are and thanks the start of the rut being fixed.

We have had midweek off the last two weeks so hopefully we've been hard and work on the training ground tactically and we see new ideas play out in the game tomorrow.

Whether Frank is the man to take us forward or not is up for debate but continuing with the merry go round of Managers and looking to continue the success we had previously I don't think is. It is a model that is not sustainable in the current climate with FFP rules and more competition in capturing the top talent. Previously we could bring in a Manager and offer them a few high profile signings to build a team around and once the Manager left we were able to offload those players and freshen the squad for the new Manager.

As difficult as it is to bring in quality players it is becoming even more difficult off loading average or specialized players, we may struggle with Jorginho and we werent able to get rid of Bakayako, Rudiger, Emerson & Alonso in the summer & Arsenal have had their own issues with Ozil. Having consistency with a Manager allows a squad to settle and establish a playing style so that even if you have first team player absentees the replacements have some form of resemblance to the player who is being replaced and the team is not impacted greatly. Liverpool as an example have been plagued with injuries this season but the impact has not been that great because the style of play is still consistent whereas with us the moment we've had Reece out our whole play on the right hand side has disintegrated. 

2 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

Whether Frank is the man to take us forward or not is up for debate but continuing with the merry go round of Managers and looking to continue the success we had previously I don't think is. It is a model that is not sustainable in the current climate with FFP rules and more competition in capturing the top talent. Previously we could bring in a Manager and offer them a few high profile signings to build a team around and once the Manager left we were able to offload those players and freshen the squad for the new Manager.

As difficult as it is to bring in quality players it is becoming even more difficult off loading average or specialized players, we may struggle with Jorginho and we werent able to get rid of Bakayako, Rudiger, Emerson & Alonso in the summer & Arsenal have had their own issues with Ozil. Having consistency with a Manager allows a squad to settle and establish a playing style so that even if you have first team player absentees the replacements have some form of resemblance to the player who is being replaced and the team is not impacted greatly. Liverpool as an example have been plagued with injuries this season but the impact has not been that great because the style of play is still consistent whereas with us the moment we've had Reece out our whole play on the right hand side has disintegrated. 

That comes down to appointing different style's of manager in recent times. We've tended to shift from the idealist approach to pragmatism and back, we went from trying to implement a new style of play to transition from the old guard era to Hazard/Azpi/KDB etc to appointing Mou and Conte for quick fixes to then deciding we want the 2012 approach again by bringing in Sarri.

Which is why now we've gone for Sarri and then Lamps we must commit to the more progressive style of manager if the time comes for Lampard and then again if the time comes for the next one, if we go for an Allegri or Simeone type even as an interim we've thrown the (largely good) work of the last 2 and a half years away. If we have a club driven style of play that filters from the top all the way to the academy we could appoint not so great manager's and still have a high chance of success (ala Barcelona up until their recent collapse).

12 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

Whether Frank is the man to take us forward or not is up for debate but continuing with the merry go round of Managers and looking to continue the success we had previously I don't think is. It is a model that is not sustainable in the current climate with FFP rules and more competition in capturing the top talent. Previously we could bring in a Manager and offer them a few high profile signings to build a team around and once the Manager left we were able to offload those players and freshen the squad for the new Manager.

As difficult as it is to bring in quality players it is becoming even more difficult off loading average or specialized players, we may struggle with Jorginho and we werent able to get rid of Bakayako, Rudiger, Emerson & Alonso in the summer & Arsenal have had their own issues with Ozil. Having consistency with a Manager allows a squad to settle and establish a playing style so that even if you have first team player absentees the replacements have some form of resemblance to the player who is being replaced and the team is not impacted greatly. Liverpool as an example have been plagued with injuries this season but the impact has not been that great because the style of play is still consistent whereas with us the moment we've had Reece out our whole play on the right hand side has disintegrated. 

I go back to a question I asked a couple of weeks ago, what our playing style? I am really hoping it is not based on high crosses to a packed area.

4 minutes ago, Argo said:

That comes down to appointing different style's of manager in recent times. We've tended to shift from the idealist approach to pragmatism and back, we went from trying to implement a new style of play to transition from the old guard era to Hazard/Azpi/KDB etc to appointing Mou and Conte for quick fixes to then deciding we want the 2012 approach again by bringing in Sarri.

Which is why now we've gone for Sarri and then Lamps we must commit to the more progressive style of manager if the time comes for Lampard and then again if the time comes for the next one, if we go for an Allegri or Simeone type even as an interim we've thrown the (largely good) work of the last 2 and a half years away. If we have a club driven style of play that filters from the top all the way to the academy we could appoint not so great manager's and still have a high chance of success (ala Barcelona up until their recent collapse).

But that further limits the already limited pool of quality Managers available hence my point that it's not a sustainable approach.

Whoever the Manager is, whether the club sticks with Lampard or brings in someone with experience we just need to give the Manager time to build the squad and establish a playing philosophy and not look to chop and change every time we hit a bad month of results.  

2 minutes ago, pcmacca said:

I go back to a question I asked a couple of weeks ago, what our playing style? I am really hoping it is not based on high crosses to a packed area.

and I answered your question of playing style, feel free to go back and read.