2 minutes ago, JustChelsea said:

Uhhhhhh sorry, two faces?

How is that 2 faced, the performance today was not great but hopefully it can give the lads some confidence. 

Leicester are an excellent team and we will definitely need to play better then today and hopefully with Kante and Reece we can shore up the defensive side. 

 

4 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

How is that 2 faced, the performance today was not great but hopefully it can give the lads some confidence. 

Leicester are an excellent team and we will definitely need to play better then today and hopefully with Kante and Reece we can shore up the defensive side. 

 

I mean that you say something, after a while something different. Which is correct?

Edited January 16, 20215 yr by JustChelsea

Just now, reparto corse said:

Sacking Lampard and getting in someone who is able to set up the team and properly manage the players is the only way we might have a chance for a top 4 finish this season. It just has to be done at this point.

It's a taboo subject, and I get it, people don't like the idea of sacking a club legend and a manager in his 2nd season. But it's worked well for us 4/5, Hiddink, Avram (I think so), Di Matteo, Benitez. The only time it didn't although you could argue it saved us from a relegation battle was Hiddink part 2. Besides that interim managers have worked well for us in the past.  

1 minute ago, JustChelsea said:

I mean that you say something, after a while something different. Which is correct?

Saying our performance needs to Improve against a better team and being happy with a well fought win today are not the opposite. 

1 minute ago, Imran_CFC said:

Saying our performance needs to Improve against a better team and being happy with a well fought win today are not the opposite. 

I don't think it's directly two faced but I do think you've backtracked a bit there. You must acknowledge how bad the performances have been now. We haven't put in a good performance since Leeds. It's good that we've won a game while not playing well, but perfomrances often correlate with results, and it's no surprise how bad the results have been over the past two months. 

You said it yourself on the matchday thread, we could get battered by Leicester playing like that, so surely the negativity on here is understandable? That's not including the kneejerk new accounts that come on and revel in our demise of course. 

7 minutes ago, Slojo said:

It's a taboo subject, and I get it, people don't like the idea of sacking a club legend and a manager in his 2nd season. But it's worked well for us 4/5, Hiddink, Avram (I think so), Di Matteo, Benitez. The only time it didn't although you could argue it saved us from a relegation battle was Hiddink part 2. Besides that interim managers have worked well for us in the past.  

I still find the Avram era a strange one, i'm convinced Ten Cate was in charge in all but name.

1 minute ago, Slojo said:

I don't think it's directly two faced but I do think you've backtracked a bit there. You must acknowledge how bad the performances have been now. We haven't put in a good performance since Leeds. It's good that we've won a game while not playing well, but perfomrances often correlate with results, and it's no surprise how bad the results have been over the past two months. 

You said it yourself on the matchday thread, we could get battered by Leicester playing like that, so surely the negativity on here is understandable? That's not including the kneejerk new accounts that come on and revel in our demise of course. 

I haven't at any stage stated the performances have been acceptable but to be fair our performances at the start of our previous decent run were somewhat similar, we appeared slow and predictable against United and Sevilla but the games helped us build confidence and start playing well. 

I am hoping the last couple of games can help with that and the players improve, I think Frank has enough credit in the bank to atleast be given until the end of the season. 

Jesus, some folk are going over the top again tonight.

Admittedly it wasn't great, but we had 20+ attempts on goal and with better finishing would have won more comfortably against a side who are on a decent run. Some folk seem to be calling for an end to Lamps reign every game we don't win by 3 or more goals.

Leicester will be an even tougher game and I think James has to come in for Azpi, who really is looking his age now and Kante will no doubt come in for Jorginho. CHO must start ahead of wither Pulicic or Ziyech and I guess Zouma will be back in but will Lamps think another game for 36 year old Silva a bit much so stick with Rudiger? We need someone to counter Vardy's pace that'f for sure, but whatever the outcome, I won't be joining the Lamps Out Brigade.

6 minutes ago, Argo said:

I still find the Avram era a strange one, i'm convinced Ten Cate was in charge in all but name.

Avram is obviously not a good manager, and the fact that we're being linked with him again must be a joke. But there's no denying we did well under him at the time, that was mostly down to the personnel that he had, great quality and characters. 

I would say our best interim was Di Matteo by far, he turned a horrible season into one of our greatest (arguably), nobody could've predicted that at the time. I remember how horrible it was being a fan at the time, we were a laughingstock for other teams. 

This team right now has much better quality than the one AVB got sacked with, these players can do so much better. That's why I'm confident we can have a really good season if someone was to step in and take advantage of it. I don't think Lampard can, I love Frank, I wanted it to happen I really did, but I always had my doubts due to his lack of experience. And sadly, the managerial game is so much different, good players and club legends don't just translate into great managers just because of that. We've seen it all before, sacking Mourinho for the 2nd time was the end of the world, then when we won the league with Conte it was all great again. 

Edited January 16, 20215 yr by Slojo

2 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Jesus, some folk are going over the top again tonight.

Admittedly it wasn't great, but we had 20+ attempts on goal and with better finishing would have won more comfortably against a side who are on a decent run. Some folk seem to be calling for an end to Lamps reign every game we don't win by 3 or more goals.

Leicester will be an even tougher game and I think James has to come in for Azpi, who really is looking his age now and Kante will no doubt come in for Jorginho. CHO must start ahead of wither Pulicic or Ziyech and I guess Zouma will be back in but will Lamps think another game for 36 year old Silva a bit much so stick with Rudiger? We need someone to counter Vardy's pace that'f for sure, but whatever the outcome, I won't be joining the Lamps Out Brigade.

We had 16 to Villa, we had 19 to Arsenal.

Are you serious  with such excuse?

12 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Jesus, some folk are going over the top again tonight.

Admittedly it wasn't great, but we had 20+ attempts on goal and with better finishing would have won more comfortably against a side who are on a decent run. Some folk seem to be calling for an end to Lamps reign every game we don't win by 3 or more goals.

Leicester will be an even tougher game and I think James has to come in for Azpi, who really is looking his age now and Kante will no doubt come in for Jorginho. CHO must start ahead of wither Pulicic or Ziyech and I guess Zouma will be back in but will Lamps think another game for 36 year old Silva a bit much so stick with Rudiger? We need someone to counter Vardy's pace that'f for sure, but whatever the outcome, I won't be joining the Lamps Out Brigade.

What good attempts did we have on goal until we scored? All I can remember was Mount hitting the bar beforehand then the Giroud offside chance. I can't remember all these chances, but I do remember Werner missing another sitter towards the end. 

Fulham had two great chances in the first half and failed to capitalise. We've had many games where you can say "If we finished our chances, it would've been about 5-0", but that definitely wasn't one of them. I'm actually concerned with our inability to create chances at the moment, at least when we were missing lots of sitters we were creating chances, now we're hardly creating at all. It's cross, cross, cross, sideways pass, sideways pass, sideways pass. 

Edited January 16, 20215 yr by Slojo

With a settled squad I could see a new experienced Manager coming in and making an instant impact however with the current nature of our squad I think a new Manager will need a lot of time to gel the team together. 

Giving Lampard until the end of the season would give him the opportunity to revive the team and if things don't go well would give the new manager a pre-season to work with the squad. 

Personally I would like to see Lampard see out the full 3 year contract and see how he performs with a squad which has been together for a couple of years. 

6 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Avram is obviously not a good manager, and the fact that we're being linked with him again must be a joke. But there's no denying we did well under him at the time, that was mostly down to the personnel that he had, great quality and characters. 

I would say our best interim was Di Matteo by far, he turned a horrible season into one of our greatest (arguably), nobody could've predicted that at the time. I remember how horrible it was being a fan at the time, we were a laughingstock for other teams. 

This team right now has much better quality than the one AVB got sacked with, these players can do so much better. That's why I'm confident we can have a really good season if someone was to step in and take advantage of it. I don't think Lampard can, I love Frank, I wanted it to happen I really did, but I always had my doubts due to his lack of experience. And sadly, the managerial game is so much different, good players and club legends don't just translate into great managers just because of that. We've seen it all before, sacking Mourinho for the 2nd time was the end of the world, then when we won the league with Conte it was all great again. 

Yep that's the crux of my frustrations, we have an incredible bunch of players that are largely being wasted right now. At absolute worst we should be one of those "hipster rock and roll" teams, ie when it's good it's breathtaking.

1 hour ago, evissy said:

If Frank decides to pay 4-3-3 with the same players against Leicester he will lose the game 100%. Hope he realizes that. If he loses to Leicester he might be either gone or under the sort pf pressure no Chelsea manager have ever survived. 

It will be the exact same formation, framework and approach pass pass pass pass cross cross cross rinse and repeat hoping something pays off or we have some individual brilliance. 

3 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

With a settled squad I could see a new experienced Manager coming in and making an instant impact however with the current nature of our squad I think a new Manager will need a lot of time to gel the team together. 

Can you not remember how bad it was under AVB in 2011 and 2012? In Di Matteo's 2nd game he overturned a 3-1 defeat to Napoli (a good team at the time, who had Lavezzi, Hamsick and Cavani in their primes) to a 4-1 comeback. 

I'm not saying it's destined to happen, but it wouldn't surprise me if you saw the players do MUCH better, because they're currently playing to about 1/10th of their ability at the moment. 

1 hour ago, dkw said:

Jesus, this is harder than it needs to be.

At the time we bought him he was rated as a generational talent, one if the most sought after young players in football. We had an opportunity to buy him so did. The fact he hasn't played well since the move doesn't suddenly mean he wasn't highly rated when we signed him. And you reckon not many had heard of him? Don't be so f**king ridiculous. 

Sought after by who? Us and Bayern looked like the only options. You're talking as if his name is Neymar who was known worldwide with everyone anticipating where he would end up. Holding onto that tag as Generational talent is laughable as I'm saying he hasn't shown an ounce of being one.

I’m not going to jump to any conclusions just yet, yes tonight was very disappointing but we still got 3 points.

If we keep playing like this for another month then I’ll start losing hope but I remain optimistic for now.

It's difficult to understand why we are so much worse that we have been previously under Lampard. We used to move forward really quickly in transition -- not so much now. Any idea if Ziyech can play as a number 10?

In spite of his woeful finishing, Werner at least stretches the defence so I do think he's worth persisting with. I'd like to see him play from the left (with Giroud or Tammy up top) and either Ziyech of Havertz as a number 10, then have Kante and Mount box to box. 

Just now, Slojo said:

Can you not remember how bad it was under AVB in 2011 and 2012? In Di Matteo's 2nd game he overturned a 3-1 defeat to Napoli (a good team at the time, who had Lavezzi, Hamsick and Cavani in their primes) to a 4-1 comeback. 

I'm not saying it's destined to happen, but it wouldn't surprise me if you saw the players do MUCH better, because they're currently playing to about 1/10th of their ability at the moment. 

As much as I love RDM, think it is more than apparent that the team rallied after AVB's departure and it was the likes of Cech, Lamps, JT and Drogba who carried us through. We don't have those characters now and the chances of a repeat are slim to zero.

6 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Can you not remember how bad it was under AVB in 2011 and 2012? In Di Matteo's 2nd game he overturned a 3-1 defeat to Napoli (a good team at the time, who had Lavezzi, Hamsick and Cavani in their primes) to a 4-1 comeback. 

I'm not saying it's destined to happen, but it wouldn't surprise me if you saw the players do MUCH better, because they're currently playing to about 1/10th of their ability at the moment. 

But would you accept the team to sit back soak up the pressure and start playing on the counter like we did in 2012. In addition wee had a team which had a established spine with Cech, Terry, Lampard and Drogba whereas currently we have a young squad which has barely had time together to settle. 

4 minutes ago, Hessleboink said:

It's difficult to understand why we are so much worse that we have been previously under Lampard. We used to move forward really quickly in transition -- not so much now. Any idea if Ziyech can play as a number 10?

In spite of his woeful finishing, Werner at least stretches the defence so I do think he's worth persisting with. I'd like to see him play from the left (with Giroud or Tammy up top) and either Ziyech of Havertz as a number 10, then have Kante and Mount box to box. 

I think it's just simply the case that teams have worked us out. The video analysis is so hard-core these days that I think within a few games teams understand your approach and how to mitigate it.

It's happened around this point for the last three seasons. I think Frank is also very clear that he wants players to make decisions for themselves rather than having every movement orchestrated and planned ala Sarri. I think for some of our players that is a challenging transition. Havertz and Werner in particular are used to playing in detailed tactical setups under Nagelsmann and Bosz.

3 minutes ago, Nibs said:

As much as I love RDM, think it is more than apparent that the team rallied after AVB's departure and it was the likes of Cech, Lamps, JT and Drogba who carried us through. We don't have those characters now and the chances of a repeat are slim to zero.

Probably, I have no doubt about that, we currently lack those leaders. But what we lacked then and what we have now is quality. Back then our only source of creativity was Mata, at the moment we have plenty of talented players, fast paced, skillfull, creative, and flair but they're not performing well. 

Edited January 16, 20215 yr by Slojo

2 minutes ago, Nibs said:

As much as I love RDM, think it is more than apparent that the team rallied after AVB's departure and it was the likes of Cech, Lamps, JT and Drogba who carried us through. We don't have those characters now and the chances of a repeat are slim to zero.

I agree. Sheer force of will carried us through that year. We saw Robbie's actual abilities the next year. Fun to watch but not really reliable.

Just now, Slojo said:

Probably, I have no doubt about that, we currently lack those leaders. But what we lacked then and what we have now is quality. Back then our only source of creativity was Mata, at the moment we have plenty of talented players but they're not performing well. 

Yeah, I kind of agree. As much as we have some quality now, the one thing we are really missing is that player who can make that killer pass and really open teams up and hurt them.

We are crying out for a midfielder who can go past one player, then thread that ball through for .............Werner, Pulicic, CHO, Mount - whoever to run onto and score. Unfortunately Jorginho, Kante and Kovacic are not that player - maybe Gimour could be?

Edited January 16, 20215 yr by Nibs

1 minute ago, Nibs said:

Yeah, I kind of agree. As much as we have some quality now, the one thing we are really missing is that player who can make that killer pass and really open teams up and hurt them.

We are crying out for a midfielder who can go past one player, then thread that ball through for .............Werner, Pulicic, CHO, Mount - whoever to run onto and score. Unfortunately Korginho, Kante and Kovacic are not that player - maybe Gimour could be?

This is exactly why I want Lampard to give Gilmour a chance, just for something different. Our current midfield are not providing any sort of creativity in the middle, but I think that's also due to tactical instructions, not just the players themselves.