Just now, coco said:

you cant play deep when you have the ball as much as we do, that would just mean passing it around at the back, which we do a lot of anyway. If you want us to play deeper we need to stop hogging the ball if we can't break teams down, and let the other team have more possession than 30 minutes per game. Or we stick with the high possession and work on unlocking defences like city do with rapid one touch attacks.

 

But this has worked for us in the past though, a player like Pulisic and Werner can break easier if we focus on pressing just more tightly on our half and not all over the pitch. When we have the ball they will press us but that opens up for a more direct approach, again playing for the pace of Werner and so on. I think it's worth a try because we would be playing faster up and down the pitch.

I think we have managed to score lots of goals like that, 4:0, 3:3... We just need to find more space and to play faster and I think that the 4-2-3-1 forces the team to look up for a run. Maybe I'm wrong but at this point anything other than the standard 4-3-3 could work!

Just now, Gol15 said:

But this has worked for us in the past though, a player like Pulisic and Werner can break easier if we focus on pressing just more tightly on our half and not all over the pitch.

Yes i agree, but thats only happening for 30 minutes per game on average because we hog the ball, what do we do the other hour in the game when we actually have the ball at our feet and the opposition just go compact and counter us.

4 minutes ago, chi blue said:

I appreciate new fans have short memories, but let’s see if we can drag our memory back to the o such long time ago of the beginning of December, about a month and half ago and if we had beaten Everton we would of gone too!! Yes a disappointing run with some poor performances, but we could of gone Top, to 7 weeks later  getting sacked! Is there no patience here. The way people on here are talking we are cut adrift at the bottom of the table.

'New fans'? Well I've been supporting Chelsea for over 25 years, so sorry to push you off your high ground.

Coulda woulda shoulda. If we turned all our losses into wins last season, we could've won the league.

The way people are taking on here is that we have spent a bucket load of money, forget about the title, we are looking no where close  to a top 4 finish.

1 minute ago, coco said:

Yes i agree, but thats only happening for 30 minutes per game on average because we hog the ball, what do we do the other hour in the game when we actually have the ball at our feet and the opposition just go compact and counter us.

True. And a counter will come, that much we can be sure of, earlier in the season we managed not to let in a cheap goal but in the recent games I see many of our players watching the ball and while there is a player moving inside our box or cutting into space...

If we could score in those first 30 minutes of play while our tactic is working they would play into our hands, against Palace for example waited for a counter up till the moment when we scored the first goal in the second half, after that they needed to open up because they were behind and we scored 3 more as a result. But that's just one game...

In any case if we could by any means just move the ball faster, you know even indirectly just get into a faster rhythm you know? That would work wonders for us I think.

You posted a semi 4-4-2/4-4-1-1, that's maybe what I have been searching for because that formation is great for a semi counter-attacking setup where the ball would move faster, if our attacks just end with a shot that's good even if it's wide just so that we don't get countered in return.

1 minute ago, Gol15 said:

True. And a counter will come, that much we can be sure of, earlier in the season we managed not to let in a cheap goal but in the recent games I see many of our players watching the ball and while there is a player moving inside our box or cutting into space...

If we could score in those first 30 minutes of play while our tactic is working they would play into our hands, against Palace for example waited for a counter up till the moment when we scored the first goal in the second half, after that they needed to open up because they were behind and we scored 3 more as a result. But that's just one game...

In any case if we could by any means just move the ball faster, you know even indirectly just get into a faster rhythm you know? That would work wonders for us I think.

You posted a semi 4-4-2/4-4-1-1, that's maybe what I have been searching for because that formation is great for a semi counter-attacking setup where the ball would move faster, if our attacks just end with a shot that's good even if it's wide just so that we don't get countered in return.

I agree with all that, the team i put up in the other thread was the team i know most people want to see on here, even the Werner/Havertz critics would agree they need more time in a system that may suit them more. Timo cant play a conventional 9, thats a given, so we need to try him in the roll like Rooney used to play. basically free to go anywhere false 9, even if it means Havertz sometimes being our most advanced player finding gaps left by defenders going after Werner, defenders do like strikers to be close to them 

3 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Good suggestion Coco, though I wonder if a 3-4-1-2 would work better.

 

Mendy

 

Zouma

Silva

Azpi

 

James

Kante

Mount

Chilwell

 

Havertz

 

Giroud

Werner

 

Also sky have taken their turn to twist the knife... https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11668/12193837/frank-lampard-chelsea-managers-job-under-threat-unless-he-reverses-poor-run-of-form

3412,you pretty much say f off to puli and cho. 

We probably are suited more for 343

Puli/cho/werner - Tammy/Giroud - Ziyech/Havertz

Does that mean we spent 130 m on depth, yes we did. 

24 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

3412,you pretty much say f off to puli and cho. 

We probably are suited more for 343

Puli/cho/werner - Tammy/Giroud - Ziyech/Havertz

Does that mean we spent 130 m on depth, yes we did. 

Not true. CHO can rotate with either wingback and Pulisic as a second striker, Ziyech with Havertz.

 

Frank has to adapt. Like Conte did. If he did not he would have been sacked and not won what he did. If Frank is going to have a decent shot at staying beyond his contract he needs to adapt to situation imo.

Edited January 21, 20215 yr by axman2526

You know I really enjoy the different views and I respect those who think Frank is not the right man for the job anymore and a change would improve us. Putting forward ideas as to who could take over and changes they could see made. While I want Frank to have more time I respect the right to those views that he should not get it 

What I dont respect is those taking enjoyment from point scoring on Frank, like they are enjoying him being in this position .

Frank deserves respect, he is a man who is always involved in discussions as our best ever player, who bleeds blue, who loves the club like we are all supposed to.

There are some on here that fit the title of "plastic" perfectly.

Edited January 21, 20215 yr by axman2526

6 hours ago, DarkMata said:

Thing is we will happily play a young player like Reece James and when he makes mistakes like last night, we will say he will learn from it and we persevere to play him knowing all the experience he gains will help him become a better player.  How come a young inexperienced manager isn't afford the same luxury?  You cant become a top manager without going through some sh*t times, its how we come out of it that matters.  If the board thought it would be all rosey after giving the managers job to a manager with 1 year of experience then they need sacking first.

That question can be asked both ways.

For example, Bosingwa, Kalou and Malouda played for us in that night in Munich but not one supporter objected to saying "thank you but goodbye" to them but the mere idea of doing the same with Robbie and you were treated like you done the great train robbery.

8 hours ago, DarkMata said:

Roman and the board could easily have appointed an experienced manager, but they didn't they went with Frank.  If they're aren't willing to give him more time what the hell were they thinking in the first place.  

The leagues congested at the moment, we are closer to the top than we've been in ages, I mean you can't believe the likes of Man Utd, Villa, and Leicester are going to continue this run of form till the end of the season.  They are bound to get dips in form and we will get back to winning ways, that's how football works.  It sounds like some of you think its already mathematical impossible for us to get top 4, we're still in the mix.  

No experienced manager want to come to a club with no transfer window and losing their best player (Hazard), it is a recipe for disaster and no manager would risk their career like that

Frank Lampard took the job because he is a rookie and there wont be a better chance for him to manage Chelsea, as you said the board can always find a better and more experienced manager than him

4 hours ago, chi blue said:

You’ve nailed! it halfway through the season, yes only half way through the season, and only three points less than last season, in a very very strange, get a grip you spoilt little brat, we are not entitled to be top or even in the top 10

If I recall correctly you were acting the way you're accusing him and others of being now under Sarri, despite the fact we never went lower than 5th under him and you were one of the one's who 'liked' my posts when I went all in on Conte for his tactics in Manchester THAT day, again in a season we never went lower than 5th.

I remember although I didn't agree with you on the Sarri situation I respected the fact that you were acting in the way you believed is what what best for the club and now you've taken the opposite side of the argument (which again is fine) you've gone after people that for all intents and purposes are you from two years ago.

7 hours ago, The Brit said:

The title win of 2017, let alone 2005, seems like a lifetime ago after watching the mediocrity we’ve become 

the board has to take at least 70% of blame when they crashed with the manager, not backing them properly, and buying option Z in the manager's list or panic buys at the last min for so many years in a row

6 hours ago, dansubrosa said:

Look at Arteta for example.

He had them bottom of the league for majority of the season, and then thanks to covid and injuries, he’s had to rely on Smith Rowe and Saka and now look at how they have transformed the season.

My point is Arteta just needed abit of luck to turn it around and he’s had it, now he’s building on that luck to turn around the season (Even though I reckon they’ll be bottom again with upcoming tough run).

I guess Lampard just need abit of luck and we’ve not had any. Werner goal chalked offside, Pulisic penalty ruled out, hitting the post multiple times, Ndidi scoring his first goal in a year outside the box, Saka cross turned into goal, Xhaka having one worldie every 3 years, etc. We’re having rotten luck at the minute.

Surely our luck will change soon.

can we not lower our expectation to the level of Arsenal? I feel ashamed just to think like an Arsenal fan

5 hours ago, Nibs said:

I think sometimes things just happen and there's little point looking to deeply for an explanation.

My take is that all the squad and particularly the youngsters brought into the situation with Lamps & Jody and grabbed their chance and probably exceeded expectations. This season, we have signed what on paper look like better players but it has back-fired. Mendy and Silva have been decent but the others just haven't clicked - even Chilwell is looking average last few games. And when you take into account, all our main rivals look stronger and have improved (and when I say rivals I now include likes of Everton, Saints Leicester and even West Ham FFS!), I think that's why we are struggling.

With the money in the PL right now, all teams are able to compete a bit more especially those with good scouting networks too. I know we can't afford to have the small-club mentality that some of our rivals have been guilty of in the past but I think we also need to accept that no-one has the divine right to win trophies or be guaranteed of finishing top 4. Yes, we should be doing better but there are a lot of good sides now - as backed up by so many of the results this season.

I know that's not what some supporters want to hear, especially those who have only followed Chelsea since we started winning things again, but that's how I see it and going out and replacing Lamps with another foreign coach will guarantee nothing.

 

 

>  I think we also need to accept that no-one has the divine right to win trophies or be guaranteed of finishing top 4.

 

bullsh*t, Man City has been challenging for the title every single year 

2 minutes ago, cfcforeverfan said:

the board has to take at least 70% of blame when they crashed with the manager, not backing them properly, and buying option Z in the manager's list or panic buys at the last min for so many years in a row

If you're talking about Conte assuming we don't spend in the next ten days we spent more that summer than we did this. So what if they weren't plan A, do you think Wijnaldium was Klopp's plan A in a summer Kante was available? But instead of acting like a school child he got one with it and made the former a key part in his eventual CL and PL winning teams.

7 minutes ago, Argo said:

If you're talking about Conte assuming we don't spend in the next ten days we spent more that summer than we did this. So what if they weren't plan A, do you think Wijnaldium was Klopp's plan A in a summer Kante was available? But instead of acting like a school child he got one with it and made the former a key part in his eventual CL and PL winning teams.

 I never say a manager should get their option A every single time, but at the same time manager shouldnt be treated like sh*t and given option Z and panic buys at the last sec of the window which means the manager has no time at all to introduce them to the squad properly. You think if Klopp getting some Z class winger  instead of Mane and Salah he would be happily smiling at press conference and praising the board? lol. You can never convince me that Conte's first/second choice player would be ZappaCosta and Drinkwater as they both come at the last second of the transfer window - the definition of a panic buy. Not only these players wasted a lot of money, it also frustrated the manager as he is given players that he doesnt want at all.

37 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Not true. CHO can rotate with either wingback and Pulisic as a second striker, Ziyech with Havertz.

 

Frank has to adapt. Like Conte did. If he did not he would have been sacked and not won what he did. If Frank is going to have a decent shot at staying beyond his contract he needs to adapt to situation imo.

Cho can't play wing back, that I am 100% sure. Honestly 343,3412 does not really matter,it depend on the personel. 

 

13 minutes ago, cfcforeverfan said:

  You think if Klopp getting some Z class winger  instead of Mane and Salah he would be happily smiling at press conference and praising the board? lol. You can never convince me that Conte's first/second choice player would be ZappaCosta and Drinkwater as they both come at the last second of the transfer window - the definition of a panic buy. 

What about to name a few Karius (who later directly cost him a CL medal), Caulker, Minamino and Klavan? Don't you think Klopp had a million and one players he'd have preferred to those ones? Infact look at one of his success story's in Robertson, I mean if we signed a £7m LB from relegated Hull he'd have been the first player used to excuse Conte's behaviour and tactical cock up's that season.

But that then brings me on to my next question, why didn't he tell the board "save the money I've got the best academy in the world to dip into"? All the players Lampard made use of were available to Conte, he could have promoted Reece and used Chalobah as 4th choice CM instead of those two coming in then he had that money banked for when a player he wanted became available.

Edited January 21, 20215 yr by Argo

12 minutes ago, cfcforeverfan said:

 I never say a manager should get their option A every single time, but at the same time manager shouldnt be treated like sh*t and given option Z and panic buys at the last sec of the window which means the manager has no time at all to introduce them to the squad properly. You think if Klopp getting some Z class winger  instead of Mane and Salah he would be happily smiling at press conference and praising the board? lol. You can never convince me that Conte's first/second choice player would be ZappaCosta and Drinkwater as they both come at the last second of the transfer window - the definition of a panic buy. Not only these players wasted a lot of money, it also frustrated the manager as he is given players that he doesnt want at all.

Conte wanted Lukaku and ox. United pretty much outbid us with Lukaku and ox had conversation wiht conte and decided that he prefer to join pool instead 

8 minutes ago, Argo said:

What about to name a few Karius (who later directly cost him a CL medal), Caulker, Minamino and Klavan? Don't you think Klopp had a million and one players he'd have preferred to those ones? Infact look at one of his success story's in Robertson, I mean if we signed a £7m LB from relegated Hull he'd have been the first player used to excuse Conte's behaviour and tactical cock up's that season.

But that then brings me on to my next question, why didn't he tell the board "save the money I've got the best academy in the world to dip into"? All the players Lampard made use of were available to Conte, he could have promoted Reece and used Chalobah as 4th choice CM instead of those two coming in then he had that money banked for when a player he wanted became available.

> why didn't he tell the board "save the money I've got the best academy in the world to dip into"?

Because Chelsea is a more demanding club than Liverpool? You think Conte will still in the job if he finished 8th? You think he will get an extension if he doesnt win a single trophy for 3 years? No manager would risk their career in order to gamble on some youngsters getting great in the future. 

> What about to name a few Karius (who later directly cost him a CL medal), Caulker, Minamino and Klavan?

Karius is someone Klopp wanted, just like Matip, who can he blamed? I dont think I ever put Bakayoko on the board because thats what Conte wanted. Klavan and Minamino doesnt even cost 1/3 of DrinkWater transfer fee lol, it is like gambling on small investment and hope they go well, if it doesnt, no big deal. 

 > Infact look at one of his success story's in Robertson, I mean if we signed a £7m LB from relegated Hull

so we should rely on a miracle purchase like this? No one expect him being this good and bunch of elite clubs missed him too, so are we hoping our manager can blink miracles like this in order to maintain successful instead of going for obvious purchase?

8 minutes ago, cfcforeverfan said:

Because Chelsea is a more demanding club than Liverpool? 

But if it's true what you're saying and Zappacosta was the only option then he could have identified Reece to play back up to Moses or failing that made Azpi the alternative RWB as we had plenty of CB's on the book that season.

27 minutes ago, Argo said:

But if it's true what you're saying and Zappacosta was the only option then he could have identified Reece to play back up to Moses or failing that made Azpi the alternative RWB as we had plenty of CB's on the book that season.

i already said, as a demanding club no manager would risk their job to play an unknown 18 years old with no first team football experience, this isnt football manager that you can cheat and read what his potential attribute is, if he sucks and failed people would ask why you put a 18 years old in a tough league without any experience. 

Most media outlets are saying that Frank will lose his job if results don’t immediately improve. He needs to do something quickly. 
 

I don’t understand why the players aren’t responding to him. Has Frank ran out of ideas? Is he confusing them? Why are they not running? They don’t actively seem to be against him but certainly not putting in 100% effort. 
 

It’s a real shame the fans aren’t in the stadium 

Lots of people on here saying we need to finish Xth or Nnd, but for me it isn't about the league position, or even really the results.  Instead, it's simply about seeing an evolution of the way we are playing. 
 

I have seen nothing to suggest that Frank can change this turgid, slow, uninspired crap.

If we had somehow beaten Leicester playing this way, it still wouldn't have made the style of play a) more interesting or b) better suited to the players we have.

we beat Fulham. We were still outplayed by 10 men, who had the better chances, and we were lucky to win. For me, the win itself isn't the important issue, it is more important to see signs that we are changing the way we play and that Frank is learning, instead of the same style and tactics week in week out. 
 

of course, results are important in the long term, but at the moment, I just want to see evidence that Frank has any idea of how to pull us from the slumber 

 

15 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

Lots of people on here saying we need to finish Xth or Nnd, but for me it isn't about the league position, or even really the results.  Instead, it's simply about seeing an evolution of the way we are playing. 
 

I have seen nothing to suggest that Frank can change this turgid, slow, uninspired crap.

If we had somehow beaten Leicester playing this way, it still wouldn't have made the style of play a) more interesting or b) better suited to the players we have.

we beat Fulham. We were still outplayed by 10 men, who had the better chances, and we were lucky to win. For me, the win itself isn't the important issue, it is more important to see signs that we are changing the way we play and that Frank is learning, instead of the same style and tactics week in week out. 
 

of course, results are important in the long term, but at the moment, I just want to see evidence that Frank has any idea of how to pull us from the slumber 

 

The lack of desire within the team has been happening for 2 months now.