Every time I watch Bournemouth he seems to be either getting rinsed or is 2 seconds slow from the right position to stop a goal.  

I think we will pass on him, which is a shame as he's obviously a Youth Product, and a capable player.  I think he has versatility that will mean he could play LB or LCB, and even in a pinch maybe come out to play DM.  I just don't think he's a priority for us right now, and we will look to make a "marquee" signing in defence.  

BBC reporting that city have had a 40m bid accepted. They are wrapping up business early as well.  I dont think that he is the answer to our CB problems, so not disappointed if we are not in for him. But think he will do well at City. He isn't the dominant Kompany style defender, but as a intelligent, ball playing defender, i think he suits City better than us.

1 hour ago, nonotnowjim said:

BBC reporting that city have had a 40m bid accepted. They are wrapping up business early as well.  I dont think that he is the answer to our CB problems, so not disappointed if we are not in for him. But think he will do well at City. He isn't the dominant Kompany style defender, but as a intelligent, ball playing defender, i think he suits City better than us.

Agreed. At 180cm sadly Ake is just not the answer to our issues. Our challenge is with Christensen and Kepa we are already weak physically at the back. Ake would be handy as a cover at CB, LB and DM but he isn't the imposing CB we need. 

He'll do well at City with Pep. That bloke loves a short defender who can pass.

16 hours ago, cuppaT said:

Every time I watch Bournemouth he seems to be either getting rinsed or is 2 seconds slow from the right position to stop a goal.  

Same here, he always seems to be sprinting to recover ftom a mistake he made, which he bizarrely gets praised for. 

So that'll be city out of the market for center backs. With Utd and Liverpool having settled defences from previous big transfers. We shouldn't have too much  competition in our quest to overhaul our defence with some quality.

Good player, will improve under Pep. 

Hope we got a sell on percentage fee or bonus or something

2 hours ago, coco said:

So that'll be city out of the market for center backs. With Utd and Liverpool having settled defences from previous big transfers. We shouldn't have too much  competition in our quest to overhaul our defence with some quality.

No van Dijks in the offing this summer in my view. We'll have to find some quality that we think can grow into the top level or buy an experienced 30 plus defender to organise and teach the others. 

For me I think a keeper is a higher priority. Hard to look good as a defender when the keeper lets in anything not straight at him and never comes for crosses.

39 minutes ago, Spiller86 said:

No van Dijks in the offing this summer in my view. We'll have to find some quality that we think can grow into the top level or buy an experienced 30 plus defender to organise and teach the others. 

For me I think a keeper is a higher priority. Hard to look good as a defender when the keeper lets in anything not straight at him and never comes for crosses.

The thing is Van Dijk wasn’t seen as world’s best when he was at Southampton was he? Surely there is a few gems that are yet to be discovered.

I feel he is better suited to Man City, and will probably look like a world beater.  When you look at the weakness in our defense, I am not sure his traits necessarily address that.  Wish him well at City and think this is a good move all round.

12 hours ago, dansubrosa said:

The thing is Van Dijk wasn’t seen as world’s best when he was at Southampton was he? Surely there is a few gems that are yet to be discovered.

He was well regarded the year he went as a top top player. I always thought you could see he was good though, 6ft4 quick, good on the ball and solid. 

Remember the year before someone on here saying he wasn't Chelsea quality 

On 31/07/2020 at 13:29, Deino said:

Good player, will improve under Pep. 

Hope we got a sell on percentage fee or bonus or something

Because?.

21 minutes ago, jack_super_class said:

Because?.

There appears to be this false narrative that Pep improves defenders. There's no doubt he helps improve attacking players but he's been pretty bad with defensive players while at City

He's spent huge sums of money on defenders yet still needs to spend more 

i just read, the lamps doesn't see Ake as someone that will help Aeriallyat the back,  as he's only 5'9" 

2 hours ago, jack_super_class said:

Because?.

Pep has always improved his players. Despite popular belief, his City team has always been in the top 3 in terms of least goals conceded ever since he joined them. 

His defensive organisation is solid and they rarely concede on corners or free kicks. The way they play out from the back are also more calm and composed than any team in the Prem. 

1 hour ago, Sparkz said:

There appears to be this false narrative that Pep improves defenders. There's no doubt he helps improve attacking players but he's been pretty bad with defensive players while at City

He's spent huge sums of money on defenders yet still needs to spend more 

Actually he's not bad at all with defensive players, he just buys a better one as soon as a better one comes along. 

I mean, you would too if you have his resources. If you compare our defenders with City's, there's not a lot that separates them and us but why do they have one of the best defensive record and ours sh*t themselves whenever a strong CF comes along. 

44 minutes ago, Deino said:

Actually he's not bad at all with defensive players, he just buys a better one as soon as a better one comes along. 

I mean, you would too if you have his resources. If you compare our defenders with City's, there's not a lot that separates them and us but why do they have one of the best defensive record and ours sh*t themselves whenever a strong CF comes along. 

He's spent almost 300 million on defenders and a GK since he's been at City. I'm sure if you gave Lampard 300 million to spend on defensive reinforcements our defensive record would massively improve

Also, City have one of the best GK in the League in Ederson, one of the best CBs in the League in Laporte and one of the best RBs in the League in Kyle Walker. We don't have that type of quality in our defence

The fact Pep needs to spend another 40 million on a defender despite spending all that money already kinda shows he's been quite poor in regards to defensive players at City

2 minutes ago, Sparkz said:

He's spent almost 300 million on defenders and a GK since he's been at City. I'm sure if you gave Lampard 300 million to spend on defensive reinforcements our defensive record would massively improve

Also, City have one of the best GK in the League in Ederson, one of the best CBs in the League in Laporte and one of the best RBs in the League in Kyle Walker. We don't have that type of quality in our defence

The fact Pep needs to spend another 40 million on a defender despite spending all that money already kinda shows he's been quite poor in regards to defensive players at City

I don't really understand your argument tbh. If you have the funds available to improve your squad, surely it's a no brainer to immediately improve it. That doesn't have anything to do with development since it's easier to develop a better player than training someone from scratch. 

Individually our players are not far off. Walker is faster than Azpi but overall not much difference, Laporte individually is not levels above Zouma. Ederson is levels above Kepa though, I agree. Where we lack is collective defensive organization. In Pep's team, bar mistakes, everyone knows what they should be doing. Pep is famous for micromanaging every part of the play from the back all the way to the midfield. 

I'm pretty sure he's spending on Ake to cover for Otamendi's eventual drop in form. 

 

4 minutes ago, Deino said:

I don't really understand your argument tbh. If you have the funds available to improve your squad, surely it's a no brainer to immediately improve it. That doesn't have anything to do with development since it's easier to develop a better player than training someone from scratch. 

Individually our players are not far off. Walker is faster than Azpi but overall not much difference, Laporte individually is not levels above Zouma. Ederson is levels above Kepa though, I agree. Where we lack is collective defensive organization. In Pep's team, bar mistakes, everyone knows what they should be doing. Pep is famous for micromanaging every part of the play from the back all the way to the midfield. 

I'm pretty sure he's spending on Ake to cover for Otamendi's eventual drop in form. 

 

The argument was that Pep supposedly improves defensive players. The likes of Otamendi, Mendy, Stone and Cancelo haven't improved under his management. If he was so good at developing defensive players he shouldn't need to spend another 40 million on another defender 

Ederson is probably the 2nd best GK in the League while Kepa has been the worst GK in the league, that's huge. You also underrate Laporte IMO who is top class and only behind VVD

You also need to factor in that Pep has been at City 4 years and has spent 300 million on defenders while Lampard has been at Chelsea for 1 year and hasn't spent a penny on defenders. Of course City are going to be tactically better defensively than us

1 hour ago, Deino said:

Pep has always improved his players. Despite popular belief, his City team has always been in the top 3 in terms of least goals conceded ever since he joined them. 

His defensive organisation is solid and they rarely concede on corners or free kicks. The way they play out from the back are also more calm and composed than any team in the Prem. 

Because they keep the ball well most likely. They should have a good defence considering the amount of money spent on it. They spent a fortune on there defence and still rely on Laporte. He hasnt improved Cancelo, Stones, Zinchenko, Mendy, Angelino.

16 minutes ago, Sparkz said:

The argument was that Pep supposedly improves defensive players. The likes of Otamendi, Mendy, Stone and Cancelo haven't improved under his management. If he was so good at developing defensive players he shouldn't need to spend another 40 million on another defender 

Ederson is probably the 2nd best GK in the League while Kepa has been the worst GK in the league, that's huge. You also underrate Laporte IMO who is top class and only behind VVD

You also need to factor in that Pep has been at City 4 years and has spent 300 million on defenders while Lampard has been at Chelsea for 1 year and hasn't spent a penny on defenders. Of course City are going to be tactically better defensively than us

He does improve them, or else he wouldn't have good defensive records. Since he managed in the EPL, City has been within the top 3 side in terms of goals conceded. This despite the fact that he chops and changes the defence. Stones became better on the ball and his defensive positioning was solid until his form dropped. Laporte improved since his first introduction to the EPL, so has Otamendi. Mangala is the only outlier. Walker has been superb since Guardiola came. To say Pep doesn't improve his defenders is just denying reality. 

Where Pep wastes money on is his backups.

You say Laporte is behind VVD but denies Pep's involvement in Laporte's growth? One cannot exist without the other. In my honest opinion,  Laporte and Zouma individually is not too far of. You do you, to each his own. 

City have had top 3 defensive records since Pep took over. Meaning to say even with Caballero, Claudio Bravo, past his peak Zabaleta and Kolarov, they still concede less goals than this Chelsea team in Pep's first season bettering their record albeit just by 2 goals. The season after they conceded just 27 goals with a new backline. How has Pep not improved his players when they can achieve consistent results ever since he took ever? 

I digress,  at the end of the day, they're most probably be buying Ake to replace Otamendi and as backup to LB possibly.  

26 minutes ago, jack_super_class said:

Because they keep the ball well most likely. They should have a good defence considering the amount of money spent on it. They spent a fortune on there defence and still rely on Laporte. He hasnt improved Cancelo, Stones, Zinchenko, Mendy, Angelino.

So basically you're telling me a coach needs to improve every single one of his players otherwise he's labelled as "doesn't develop players?"

So Frank is also not a good developer of players when he can't improve Rudiger, Zouma, Azpi and Alonso? Or Fergie is also not a good developer of talent when he can't improve every player that ever played for him? 

--

Just to add, our current Chelsea side also has a majority of possession in most games yet we concede tons of goals but when City gets top defensive records with Bravo in goal for 2 years, you chalk it up as they keep the ball well? 

Then we shouldn't buy better CBs because we can just develop ours? 

Edited August 2, 20205 yr by Deino

6 hours ago, Deino said:

So basically you're telling me a coach needs to improve every single one of his players otherwise he's labelled as "doesn't develop players?"

So Frank is also not a good developer of players when he can't improve Rudiger, Zouma, Azpi and Alonso? Or Fergie is also not a good developer of talent when he can't improve every player that ever played for him? 

--

Just to add, our current Chelsea side also has a majority of possession in most games yet we concede tons of goals but when City gets top defensive records with Bravo in goal for 2 years, you chalk it up as they keep the ball well? 

Then we shouldn't buy better CBs because we can just develop ours? 

No he doesn't need to develop and make every player better but he hasn't developed any in defence.....  hes just thrown money at it. You said Ake will improve under Pep likes its 100% certain. But he hasn't improved any of the defenders he has signed. I never said Pep hasn't improved any players, but the defensive ones? not for me. 

Lampard has and deserves criticism for our defending this season and the amount of goals we have conceded. But Lampard didn't buy these players like Guardiola has done a City. City have a much better GK than us which helps. Lampard is an inexperienced manager, so he will make mistakes. Some of the goals we conceded this season have been screamers, bad GK, bad luck, set pieces, bad defending, not all down to just our defenders.

When did i say we shouldn't buy some defenders?.

Your post is a bit like, im just going to make up stuff you said to suit my agenda.

A must admit I am a tad disappointed we are not returning for Ake. Think he would be an upgrade and useful to have as our left center back.

Could fund his deal for the most part by selling Christensen. 

Should offload Zouma and Rudiger while we are at it too. Playing Abraham or Batman at CB would be no worse than them.

On 03/08/2020 at 00:23, axman2526 said:

A must admit I am a tad disappointed we are not returning for Ake. Think he would be an upgrade and useful to have as our left center back.

Could fund his deal for the most part by selling Christensen. 

Should offload Zouma and Rudiger while we are at it too. Playing Abraham or Batman at CB would be no worse than them.

Not sure Ake is better than Zouma. Its only been this season Ruidger has been poor. Tomori is still young, the only player Ake is better than is Christensen in my eyes.