On another note, i'm sure Chelsea seem to have more Jorginho fans than actual Chelsea fans at the moment. The slightest comment about Jorginho, not even in a bad way, and people are there to cry. Its almost as bad as all the Sarri fanboys on twitter.

24 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Billy is more than adept to play regista. Don't try to belittle me with the 'watch him at least' just because you have a hard on for Jorginho. No one is saying Billy is better, its literally a comparison. Should've known a comment about Jorginho would have had you on my back though, so tedious. 

Never said it was all about winning duals. If you bother to read further up the thread you see me mention about Jorginho's elite positioning for intercepting balls etc. However, if someone is running at our defence, i'd rather have Billy there to challenge them 1v1 than Jorginho because you know he'll get stuck in, not just dangle a leg. 

Ironic that you find Gol's statement asking you to watch the them play belittling but you respond in the same post implying that I should go back and read what you said.

I had read all your posts, thank you. And I still do not get your point. What is your point? That Billy is better at some aspects of defending than Jorginho? Peter Crouch was better at some aspects of forward play than Messi. Doesn't mean he is a better forward. Take any professional player A and compare them with player B and there will be some aspects each one does better than the other. So what? Maybe try to read my post again and respond to the Zouma analogy.

What exactly are you trying to say? No one here would ever say (or has ever said) that Jorginho tackles better than Billy (or that he is faster). Doesn't mean that Billy cannot be a worse defender than Jorginho. Just like Zouma is worse than our other defenders (and is relatively a poor defender) given the sort of football we play despite (maybe) winning the most duels.

Do state your point clearly. 

1 hour ago, ashwin said:

Ironic that you find Gol's statement asking you to watch the them play belittling but you respond in the same post implying that I should go back and read what you said.

I had read all your posts, thank you. And I still do not get your point. What is your point? That Billy is better at some aspects of defending than Jorginho? Peter Crouch was better at some aspects of forward play than Messi. Doesn't mean he is a better forward. Take any professional player A and compare them with player B and there will be some aspects each one does better than the other. So what? Maybe try to read my post again and respond to the Zouma analogy.

What exactly are you trying to say? No one here would ever say (or has ever said) that Jorginho tackles better than Billy (or that he is faster). Doesn't mean that Billy cannot be a worse defender than Jorginho. Just like Zouma is worse than our other defenders (and is relatively a poor defender) given the sort of football we play despite (maybe) winning the most duels.

Do state your point clearly. 

The initial argument seems to have derailed but originally a point was made that Gilmour is being left out of the Norwich team because the defensive side of his game "isn't good enough". 

But if all he is being asked to do for large periods of game is to defend then clearly Norwich was the wrong team to send him on loan to. Playing in a side that doesn't play to his strengths and is asking him to do something he isn't built to do is surely just counter productive to his development? 

If you stuck Jorginho in this Norwich side he'd probably find himself dropped to the bench too right now for similar reasons Gilmour has. 

42 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

The initial argument seems to have derailed but originally a point was made that Gilmour is being left out of the Norwich team because the defensive side of his game "isn't good enough". 

But if all he is being asked to do for large periods of game is to defend then clearly Norwich was the wrong team to send him on loan to. Playing in a side that doesn't play to his strengths and is asking him to do something he isn't built to do is surely just counter productive to his development? 

If you stuck Jorginho in this Norwich side he'd probably find himself dropped to the bench too right now for similar reasons Gilmour has. 

Ah, thanks.

I agree that Jorginho (and probably any skillful midfielder) will probably struggle in Norwich but probably far less than Gilmour. Simply because he will ensure that he picks up critical positions and ensures that the team retains its shape. I don't thin the ability to make strong tackles is as important as positional nous and close control/awareness of players around him. Jorginho is miles ahead of Gilmour in these aspects. I think we are greatly underestimating Jorginho's defensive game.

On the other hand, Jorginho's offensive game is very limited and Gilmour may soon overtake him there 🙂

 

3 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Billy is more than adept to play regista. Don't try to belittle me with the 'watch him at least' just because you have a hard on for Jorginho. No one is saying Billy is better, its literally a comparison. Should've known a comment about Jorginho would have had you on my back though, so tedious. 

I think that Gilmour is a young player that is more suited for the role of a CM, he isn't shy to run further up the pitch and to try to get involved in the final third, Jorginho is more disciplined and is playing more deeper naturally. Furthermore Gilmour isn't shy to try and take on a player that is coming for the ball, he is also more direct in his passing, yes he also tries to come deeper but he reminds me more of Kovacic than of Jorginho because he naturally wants to carry the ball more and naturally goes to the final third.

The only game where he actually played as the deeper central midfielder than his partner under Tuchel was against Fulham, Mount was the more advanced midfielder there.

Against Arsenal he had Jorginho playing deeper, against Man City he had Kante that was playing more deeper than him, thus like I said he played more the "Kovacic role" than the Jorginho role under Tuchel. Same thing happen in the FA Cup against Barnsley and Sheffield United, Kante and Kovacic respectively played the "Jorginho role" while Gilmour was more free to go forward. So this is my opinion based on what I have seen, I don't try to make Gilmour look better by talking rubbish about another player like you.

You did the same thing some months ago when you said "Put Jorginho in Norwich and he'll also struggle" when the conversation was about young players and I called you out back then and you also couldn't respond in any other way but to call me a child and now you sound actually really bitter.

You should try to find a mirror to look at, because what you tried to do here is actually tedious - "we play a back 3 because Jorginho can't defend, if Gilmour is bad defensively, we can't pretend that Jorginho is good at it, look how Gilmour with 80+ less apperances has 16% better success at tackling..." - Looks to me like you're the one obsessed about Jorginho even when the conversation isn't about him, and you have done it now at least twice?

Trying to put down a player in order to make another one look better, that's a poor showing. Feel free to keep at it though, your goal is what, to make more people to be bitter like you and to dislike Jorginho and to think that Gilmour should have been in our squad while Jorginho should have been the one loaned out to Norwich? I guess everyone has the right for their own "hard on"? 🤡

 

Edited October 6, 20214 yr by Gol15

9 hours ago, ashwin said:

Ah, thanks.

I agree that Jorginho (and probably any skillful midfielder) will probably struggle in Norwich but probably far less than Gilmour. Simply because he will ensure that he picks up critical positions and ensures that the team retains its shape. I don't thin the ability to make strong tackles is as important as positional nous and close control/awareness of players around him. Jorginho is miles ahead of Gilmour in these aspects. I think we are greatly underestimating Jorginho's defensive game.

On the other hand, Jorginho's offensive game is very limited and Gilmour may soon overtake him there 🙂

 

Agree, Jorginho reading of the game and interception is excellent. As long as he can stick to one area, he is very2 good but if you ask him to cover bigger area it is over. 

In term of with the ball, Gilmour need more experience, I remembered saying that he need more Jorginho in him. His passing is already better than Jorgi, but he is just way too aggressive with the ball as the deepest midfielder

 

 

21 hours ago, ashwin said:

Ironic that you find Gol's statement asking you to watch the them play belittling but you respond in the same post implying that I should go back and read what you said.

I had read all your posts, thank you. And I still do not get your point. What is your point? That Billy is better at some aspects of defending than Jorginho? Peter Crouch was better at some aspects of forward play than Messi. Doesn't mean he is a better forward. Take any professional player A and compare them with player B and there will be some aspects each one does better than the other. So what? Maybe try to read my post again and respond to the Zouma analogy.

What exactly are you trying to say? No one here would ever say (or has ever said) that Jorginho tackles better than Billy (or that he is faster). Doesn't mean that Billy cannot be a worse defender than Jorginho. Just like Zouma is worse than our other defenders (and is relatively a poor defender) given the sort of football we play despite (maybe) winning the most duels.

Do state your point clearly. 

Insinuating a fan doesn't watch games is a bit different to telling someone to read a comment properly. 

My point is that Billy is better defensively. There were comments floating about saying Billy isn't up to standard when it comes to defending. My point is he is better in that regard than what we currently use. Nowhere did i say Billy is better than Jorginho. Hope this helps.

18 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I think that Gilmour is a young player that is more suited for the role of a CM, he isn't shy to run further up the pitch and to try to get involved in the final third, Jorginho is more disciplined and is playing more deeper naturally. Furthermore Gilmour isn't shy to try and take on a player that is coming for the ball, he is also more direct in his passing, yes he also tries to come deeper but he reminds me more of Kovacic than of Jorginho because he naturally wants to carry the ball more and naturally goes to the final third.

The only game where he actually played as the deeper central midfielder than his partner under Tuchel was against Fulham, Mount was the more advanced midfielder there.

Against Arsenal he had Jorginho playing deeper, against Man City he had Kante that was playing more deeper than him, thus like I said he played more the "Kovacic role" than the Jorginho role under Tuchel. Same thing happen in the FA Cup against Barnsley and Sheffield United, Kante and Kovacic respectively played the "Jorginho role" while Gilmour was more free to go forward. So this is my opinion based on what I have seen, I don't try to make Gilmour look better by talking rubbish about another player like you.

You did the same thing some months ago when you said "Put Jorginho in Norwich and he'll also struggle" when the conversation was about young players and I called you out back then and you also couldn't respond in any other way but to call me a child and now you sound actually really bitter.

You should try to find a mirror to look at, because what you tried to do here is actually tedious - "we play a back 3 because Jorginho can't defend, if Gilmour is bad defensively, we can't pretend that Jorginho is good at it, look how Gilmour with 80+ less apperances has 16% better success at tackling..." - Looks to me like you're the one obsessed about Jorginho even when the conversation isn't about him, and you have done it now at least twice?

Trying to put down a player in order to make another one look better, that's a poor showing. Feel free to keep at it though, your goal is what, to make more people to be bitter like you and to dislike Jorginho and to think that Gilmour should have been in our squad while Jorginho should have been the one loaned out to Norwich? I guess everyone has the right for their own "hard on"? 🤡

 

I stand by the fact if you put Jorginho in the Norwich side he will struggle, I don't think that's an unpopular opinion.

Now now Gol, let's not go changing what i said to fit your narrative. Let's look at what i actually said: 'Probably one of the reasons Tuchel decides to stick with three CB's to cover him in the middle of the park.' Nowhere did i categorically state Tuchel is playing a back 3 solely because of Jorginho. I stated that due to the players at his disposal, Jorginho included, he most likely realised we don't have a proper DM and wanted to sure things up at the back, something Lampard also tried when he first came in.

This last paragraph is you being awfully insecure again in regards Jorginho. If you read my first post i also stated Jorginho is fantastic when it comes to positioning and interceptions, why would i say that if i'm trying to put a player down? Also absolutely nowhere did i say Jorginho should be at Norwich and Billy should be starting for us. I think you need to understand the difference between a simple comparison and a personal attack on your dream man. Keep going though, i'm sure Jorginho will notice you and thank you for your service protecting his name when it is unneeded. 

Speak soon x

10 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Insinuating a fan doesn't watch games is a bit different to telling someone to read a comment properly. 

My point is that Billy is better defensively. There were comments floating about saying Billy isn't up to standard when it comes to defending. My point is he is better in that regard than what we currently use. Nowhere did i say Billy is better than Jorginho. Hope this helps.

Defensively Jorginho is perfectly fine of you ask him to cover small area.

You need to relax, Gilmour is a kid in his 2nd/3rd year in top flight football. He simply need more experience. 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, RIP Mourinho said:

I stand by the fact if you put Jorginho in the Norwich side he will struggle, I don't think that's an unpopular opinion.

 

I agree, Jorginho will struggle big time in almost any team in pl beside us n city. Basically this thing need to happen in order for you to play Jorginho :

- possession football 

- slow tempo

- he is protected in transition

- his partner need to do the ball progression, Jorginho can't play with skipp or mctominay. He need to play with Kante/kova or veratti who can do the ball progression. 

 

58 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Defensively Jorginho is perfectly fine of you ask him to cover small area.

You need to relax, Gilmour is a kid in his 2nd/3rd year in top flight football. He simply need more experience. 

 

 

 

'Defensively' may have been the incorrect word to use. Probably should have said Billy would be better in a 1v1 defensive situation than Jorginho. As mentioned above Jorginho is elite when it comes to positioning and intercepting. Agree about Billy needing more experience too. 

55 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

I agree, Jorginho will struggle big time in almost any team in pl beside us n city. Basically this thing need to happen in order for you to play Jorginho :

- possession football 

- slow tempo

- he is protected in transition

- his partner need to do the ball progression, Jorginho can't play with skipp or mctominay. He need to play with Kante/kova or veratti who can do the ball progression. 

 

Agreed.

On 05/10/2021 at 14:32, RIP Mourinho said:

Just had a quick look for reference.

Jorginho wins 53% of his tackles, Billy wins 67% of his tackles.

Jorginho wins 58% of his aerial duals, Billy wins 75% of his aerial duals.

Jorginho has won 398 duals and losing 447. Billy has won 39 losing 41.

If people want to brand Billy as poor defensively, we can't pretend like Jorginho is good at it. 

https://www.premierleague.com/players/5682/player/stats

https://www.premierleague.com/players/24221/Billy-Gilmour/stats

 

I remember reading sinilar stats a couple of years ago that made Mustafi sound better than Van Dijk.

15 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Agree, Jorginho reading of the game and interception is excellent. As long as he can stick to one area, he is very2 good but if you ask him to cover bigger area it is over. 

In term of with the ball, Gilmour need more experience, I remembered saying that he need more Jorginho in him. His passing is already better than Jorgi, but he is just way too aggressive with the ball as the deepest midfielder

 

 

You hit the nail on the head.

Just got a feeling he will be one of the Newcastle targets when their money roles in, along with throwing a bottomless pit of Cash at Mino to try and convince Haaland to join them.

7 hours ago, Argo said:

I remember reading sinilar stats a couple of years ago that made Mustafi sound better than Van Dijk.

Probably is now. Van Dijk in the mud.

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

Just got a feeling he will be one of the Newcastle targets when their money roles in, along with throwing a bottomless pit of Cash at Mino to try and convince Haaland to join them.

800.000 a week💰 or how much did Mino want 

47 minutes ago, azpi28 said:

800.000 a week💰 or how much did Mino want 

Aye sounds right. 

On 06/10/2021 at 14:23, ForeverCarefree said:

The initial argument seems to have derailed but originally a point was made that Gilmour is being left out of the Norwich team because the defensive side of his game "isn't good enough". 

But if all he is being asked to do for large periods of game is to defend then clearly Norwich was the wrong team to send him on loan to. Playing in a side that doesn't play to his strengths and is asking him to do something he isn't built to do is surely just counter productive to his development? 

If you stuck Jorginho in this Norwich side he'd probably find himself dropped to the bench too right now for similar reasons Gilmour has. 

Yeah, it does have a bit of a 'Bamford on loan to Burnley' feel to it. It's a terrible shame Swansea got relegated...

i love how billy is always scanning around him before he even receives the ball, sign of a class player

Billy just won a penalty for Schotland, he's having a decent game

Billy was incredible in the second half. MOTM for sure (although they gave it to robertson). They are retarded at Norwich for benching him 

Apparently he was the best player on the pitch last night in Scotland's win. 

Seen a couple of article today waxing lyrical about his performance and praising his ability and maturity. 

He's only going to get better the more he plays, the ceiling for his potential is so high. 

Hopefully Farke sees the error of his ways and gets Billy back in the Norwich starting XI after the international break. Otherwise we've got to recall him to prevent him wasting his immense talent this season. 

couldn't find anything off higher quality 

Edited October 10, 20214 yr by azpi28

3 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Apparently he was the best player on the pitch last night in Scotland's win. 

Seen a couple of article today waxing lyrical about his performance and praising his ability and maturity. 

He's only going to get better the more he plays, the ceiling for his potential is so high. 

Hopefully Farke sees the error of his ways and gets Billy back in the Norwich starting XI after the international break. Otherwise we've got to recall him to prevent him wasting his immense talent this season. 

Some players tend to play much better for their national team but are pretty average in their real team... But this isn't the first time Gilmour has shown that he can do well, next season he should be a part of our main squad, I see no need for loans.

Reports suggesting we are going to recall Billy in January after another none playing day.