16 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

then that's still a pen. He has raised his hand into an unnatural position, doing his best impression of a little teapot, and it hit his hand. If that was against us, I would be demanding a pen and can understand why Utd feel cheated.

My argument was it wasn’t an unnatural position because someone who naturally put the arm up/out to avoid someone clattering in to them. 

19 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

then that's still a pen. He has raised his hand into an unnatural position, doing his best impression of a little teapot, and it hit his hand. If that was against us, I would be demanding a pen and can understand why Utd feel cheated.

Just shows how far this game has fallen when people think this was a penalty. Someone running away from goal and his arm comes in contact with the opponents arm and lightly brushes the ball not causing it to deviate in anyway. Also absolutely no intent.

I know this has been given under new laws but it’s just total sh*t and I don’t want to see it. We have maybe got similar penalties ourselves but trust me I don’t want to see it and wouldn’t expect it.

 

The sarriball comparisons are getting so stale. they’re just not accurate either. We never really saw the football Sarri wanted bar glimpses towards the end of the season. And some of that was really good. Many on here even said as much but seem to have erased it from their memories. We had a bad spell in the belly of the Sarri season when he appeared lost. For whatever reason the football we played then has been conflated with “Sarriball” and that is now his identity among the fans.  He’s cut no slack whatsoever for the fact he was starting out in a new club in a new league, in a new country where he barely spoke the language. At the same time, to reiterate @Argo’s point, apparently we played “exciting” football under Lampard. Maybe so, but we played some real dross too (not just his latter days but the belly of last season, and I was defending him throughout btw), and much of our football under Mourinho too was hardly exhilarating. So much bias.

14 minutes ago, Argo said:

We also don't get top four last season without Pulisic coming up clutch yet instead of being criticized for that Lampard is (rightly) praised for getting the best out of him.

Hazard "carried the team" largely because Sarri coaxed his best season yet out of him.

Not only did Sarri get the best out Hazard offensively but also Pedro, Kante, RLC, Giroud (this season Giroud is playing equally good so he will most likely overcome his best season for us this year)...

@Dragos Said it best, spoiled brats now want us to win style points, 3 points is not enough it matters how...

Tuchel still didn't lose a game but had played Spurs, Atletico, Man united - This is a great sign and if we keep being a hard team to break and finish top 4 it will be a saved season.

Just now, Dean said:

The sarriball comparisons are getting so stale. they’re just not accurate either. We never really saw the football Sarri wanted bar glimpses towards the end of the season. And some of that was really good. Many on here even said as much but seem to have erased it from their memories. We had a bad spell in the belly of the Sarri season when he appeared lost. For whatever reason the football we played then has been conflated with “Sarriball” and that is now his identity among the fans.  He’s cut no slack whatsoever for the fact he was starting out in a new club in a new league, in a new country where he barely spoke the language. At the same time, to reiterate @Argo’s point, apparently we played “exciting” football under Lampard. Maybe so, but we played some real dross too (not just his latter days but the belly of last season, and I was defending him throughout btw), and much of our football under Mourinho too was hardly exhilarating. So much bias.

Sarri NEVER played with a 3 at the back with us, he did use a couple of times a false 9 formation but he turned our a counter-based team into a possession based team and finished top 3 while doing it, since then we haven't finished top 3.

This is how you build a team, Tuchel had little to no time to start a real training going on, the decision to focus on being a stable team defensively is the right one, he inherited a defense that could lose games under Lampard after 1 shot on target and also under Sarri we had games with 70% possession that we still lost after 1 counter attack!

Tuchel had no time to train out attack till the point where something will start working again but at least we're not losing games, the attack isn't productive either way but we just played the team that has scored over 50 goals this season in the league and they couldn't really do much, in fact we had more shots on target and good chances (Giroud, Ziyech).

2 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Not only did Sarri get the best out Hazard offensively but also Pedro, Kante, RLC, Giroud (this season Giroud is playing equally good so he will most likely overcome his best season for us this year)...

@Dragos Said it best, spoiled brats now want us to win style points, 3 points is not enough it matters how...

Tuchel still didn't lose a game but had played Spurs, Atletico, Man united - This is a great sign and if we keep being a hard team to break and finish top 4 it will be a saved season.

Lucky not to lose against a Southampton team that had lost 7 or 8 on the spin (needing a pen to save us), scraped past bottom of the table Sheffield Utd (needing a pen to save us), scraped past a woefully out of form Spurs (needing a pen to save us) and scraped past Barnsley. Wont mention the Wolves game as that was less than 24 hrs into the job.

Putting aside style, do you think these performances have been good enough, for a team that is meant to be challenging, for players payed millions per year, for a club that has invested so much?

41 minutes ago, The Rising Sun said:

We watch because we support Chelsea don't we ?

So do I. But if it’s such a miserable experience, one has to ask - why? It becomes a form of masochism. Presumably when you got into it you found it enjoyable or you wouldn’t have got into it. Is whatever drew you to it in the first place still there, and if it isn’t...? I think the problem may be  excessively high expectations.

37 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

then that's still a pen. He has raised his hand into an unnatural position, doing his best impression of a little teapot, and it hit his hand. If that was against us, I would be demanding a pen and can understand why Utd feel cheated.

I actually think he raised his hands to take the ball on his chest yet Greenwood's movement knocked CHO's hand on to the ball.

Just now, nonotnowjim said:

Lucky not to lose against a Southampton team that had lost 7 or 8 on the spin (needing a pen to save us), scraped past bottom of the table Sheffield Utd (needing a pen to save us), scraped past a woefully out of form Spurs (needing a pen to save us) and scraped past Barnsley. Wont mention the Wolves game as that was less than 24 hrs into the job.

Putting aside style, do you think these performances have been good enough, for a team that is meant to be challenging, for players payed millions per year, for a club that has invested so much?

Still better than Lampard losing to Arsenal, Everton, Man City, Leicester City and scrapping a win over Fulham after they got a red card... Tuchel started from 0 and Ole that has had this Man United team for how many seasons can't win against us.

2 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Still better than Lampard losing to Arsenal, Everton, Man City, Leicester City and scrapping a win over Fulham after they got a red card... Tuchel started from 0 and Ole that has had this Man United team for how many seasons can't win against us.

It is also better than division 2 in the late 80s - but that wasn't what I asked. I asked if you think that it (our performances) have been good enough?

I tell you what, it was more entertaining to watch us in the old 2nd div than it is recently.

Edited February 28, 20215 yr by nonotnowjim

Just now, nonotnowjim said:

It is also better than division 2 in the late 80s - but that wasn't what I asked. I asked if you think that it (our performances) have been good enough?

I tell you what, it was more entertaining to watch us in the old 2nd div than it is recently.

Given the circumstances and the fact that we still didn't lose a game under Tuchel this has been a good turn around - you want us automatically to win against the best teams in the league just because? Just some weeks ago we were 9th looking absolutely clueless. It's easy to forget our situation, our goal is top 4 right now and we have been suddenly a hard team to beat.

24 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Think some are being quite harsh on Scott. Our football is boring at the moment. Mostly effective, bit utterly boring.

yep.  on the negativity scale (most negative to least negative football) it's:

TT < Conte < Jose so far.  But I'm not going to complain much if it get us to top 4 and deep into the CL.

24 minutes ago, Argo said:

We also don't get top four last season without Pulisic coming up clutch yet instead of being criticized for that Lampard is (rightly) praised for getting the best out of him.

Hazard "carried the team" largely because Sarri coaxed his best season yet out of him.

Pulicic had some decent games but it was a team effort under Lamps. Players came in and did a job. Hardly the same as Hazard in Sarri's season where he carried us more than Kane and Son currently carry Spurs!!

16 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

I actually think he raised his hands to take the ball on his chest yet Greenwood's movement knocked CHO's hand on to the ball.

The ball was 2 feet away from his chest! Would need a chest like Popeye's to control that on his chest, not CHO's scrawny little 28A cup size.

Look, there can always be an excuse or a justification (Sterling runs like that, fending off greenwood, natural jumping position, trying to control on chest etc etc etc), but at the end of the day, when a defender in his own box, raises his arm above his head, for whatever reason, it runs the risk of a penalty.

As a Chelsea fan, I am relieved it wasn't given. If that had been a UTD player, I would have been fuming, and i guess many on here would have been incredulous that it wasn't given.

Edited February 28, 20215 yr by nonotnowjim

13 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Sarri NEVER played with a 3 at the back with us, he did use a couple of times a false 9 formation but he turned our a counter-based team into a possession based team and finished top 3 while doing it, since then we haven't finished top 3.

This is how you build a team, Tuchel had little to no time to start a real training going on, the decision to focus on being a stable team defensively is the right one, he inherited a defense that could lose games under Lampard after 1 shot on target and also under Sarri we had games with 70% possession that we still lost after 1 counter attack!

Tuchel had no time to train out attack till the point where something will start working again but at least we're not losing games, the attack isn't productive either way but we just played the team that has scored over 50 goals this season in the league and they couldn't really do much, in fact we had more shots on target and good chances (Giroud, Ziyech).

? is this meant to be a response to my comment Gol?

6 minutes ago, Dean said:

The sarriball comparisons are getting so stale. they’re just not accurate either. We never really saw the football Sarri wanted bar glimpses towards the end of the season. And some of that was really good. Many on here even said as much but seem to have erased it from their memories. We had a bad spell in the belly of the Sarri season when he appeared lost. For whatever reason the football we played then has been conflated with “Sarriball” and that is now his identity among the fans.  He’s cut no slack whatsoever for the fact he was starting out in a new club in a new league, in a new country where he barely spoke the language. At the same time, to reiterate @Argo’s point, apparently we played “exciting” football under Lampard. Maybe so, but we played some real dross too (not just his latter days but the belly of last season, and I was defending him throughout btw), and much of our football under Mourinho too was hardly exhilarating. So much bias.

I don't think I can recall a manager being so heavily critised while the results have been largely good, not even Benitez.

3 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

Lucky not to lose against a Southampton team that had lost 7 or 8 on the spin (needing a pen to save us), scraped past bottom of the table Sheffield Utd (needing a pen to save us), scraped past a woefully out of form Spurs (needing a pen to save us) and scraped past Barnsley. Wont mention the Wolves game as that was less than 24 hrs into the job.

Sheffield United the week previous won at Old Trafford and then days later the runaway leaders "scraped past" them on their own turf. Despite their lowly position they rarely lose by more than goal, the reverse fixture at The Bridge is one of the very few times they have.

As for Spurs form goes out of the window in a Derby often, as shown by what happened in the same fixture last season (we were on 4 loses in 5 going into it while they were in the honey moon period under Mou) and what happened to us on the other side of North London on Boxing Day. That is exactly what I mean by above, any other manager that beats Spurs away without really breaking sweat would get w**ked off to high heaven yet with Tuchel it's coming with all these caveats to water it down.

Barnsley was all ends of terrible can't argue with you there.

4 minutes ago, BluesPower said:

yep.  on the negativity scale (most negative to least negative football) it's:

TT < Conte < Jose so far.  But I'm not going to complain much if it get us to top 4 and deep into the CL.

With where we are the most important thing is results, style would be lovely but we need results. I think it is more aggravating that we have failed to score in open play against borth Saints and United and came away with a measly 2 points. Not how you make top 4.

2 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Pulicic had some decent games but it was a team effort under Lamps. Players came in and did a job. Hardly the same as Hazard in Sarri's season where he carried us more than Kane and Son currently carry Spurs!!

Exposed so hard, you lost the plot kiddo - accept and move on. You just look like a sad case with this...

4 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Given the circumstances and the fact that we still didn't lose a game under Tuchel this has been a good turn around - you want us automatically to win against the best teams in the league just because? Just some weeks ago we were 9th looking absolutely clueless. It's easy to forget our situation, our goal is top 4 right now and we have been suddenly a hard team to beat.

I see you are still not answering explicitly (are you a politician by any chance?), but if you genuinely think that recent performances against Southampton, Spurs, Sheffield, Man U and Barnsley have been good enough, for a team that is meant to challenge, with players that have been recruited for and payed millions (yet who cannot seem to pass the ball forward), then I think you a being disingenuous.

I understand that you have a policy position you are defending (more politicking?), but I simply don't believe you if you think these performances have been good.

6 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Exposed so hard, you lost the plot kiddo - accept and move on. You just look like a sad case with this...

Might be an interesting poll question:  Who carried us to 3rd two seasons ago?

Sarri, Hazard, Jorgy, other...

Edited February 28, 20215 yr by BluesPower
4th, not 3rd.

4 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Pulicic had some decent games but it was a team effort under Lamps. Players came in and did a job. Hardly the same as Hazard in Sarri's season where he carried us more than Kane and Son currently carry Spurs!!

Not post lockdown it wasn't, we didn't look great atall and most of our points came from Pulisic coming up clutch with a key moment of brilliance, the two times he was off the boil was SHU away where we got battered and Wolves at home where thankfully Mount came up trump's. Also our best form of the season was in the autumn when Pulisic was also on form.

As I said not saying it's a bad thing, Lampard deserves the credit for coaxing a level of Pulisic that no one else so far has, but likewise Sarri getting the best season of his career out of Hazard also shouldn't be held against him.

22 minutes ago, Dean said:

The sarriball comparisons are getting so stale. they’re just not accurate either. We never really saw the football Sarri wanted bar glimpses towards the end of the season. And some of that was really good. Many on here even said as much but seem to have erased it from their memories. 

I can never forgive Cardiff away, ruined my birthday! There were some fun games too mind!

 

5 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

Look, there can always be an excuse or a justification (Sterling runs like that, fending off greenwood, natural jumping position, trying to control on chest etc etc etc), but at the end of the day, when a defender in his own box, raises his arm above his head, for whatever reason, it runs the risk of a penalty.

You keep arguing his hand was in an unnatural position but all of these things occur naturally when playing football. That’s not an excuse or a justification, it’s a fact. What do you expect them to do, take their arms off for 90 minutes? 

Also his hand was barely level with his chin so I how it’s suddenly above his head I fail to understand. 

 

2 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

I see you are still not answering explicitly (are you a politician by any chance?), but if you genuinely think that recent performances against Southampton, Spurs, Sheffield, Man U and Barnsley have been good enough, for a team that is meant to challenge, with players that have been recruited for and payed millions (yet who cannot seem to pass the ball forward), then I think you a being disingenuous.

I understand that you have a policy position you are defending (more politicking?), but I simply don't believe you if you think these performances have been good.

I do think our performances have been good. I'm not a spoiled brat that expected us to suddenly challenge for the top 2 spot in a matter of a few weeks either.

We're not in a position to challenge the top spots yet despite the value of our team, and I'm ok with that for the time being since Tuchel didn't really have the time to do much at all.

1 minute ago, BluesPower said:

Might be an interesting poll question:  Who carried us to 3rd two seasons ago?

Sarri, Hazard, Jorgy, other...

Our system carried us, we got to rely on multiple players and to use our best players in a good way. To give all credit to 1 guy is always going to be a total rubbish take, too much agenda and salt...