21 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

So many fans have convinced themselves that it's the system that is the problem and not the players. It seems that people have quickly forgotten that Lampard never played this system and our attacking players still struggled. We can go further back and include Sarri and Conte in this too. 

The simple fact is that we have had one consistenly good attacking player since we last won the title, and the 2 seasons before he left, he was carrying the whole attack on his back. Hazard is the only consistent attacking player we have had in since we won the title. Everybody else has not been good enough, and it's not because of the system, it's because of them.

Bar Ziyech they are all at the right age to be coached though, I just can’t see any improvement in any of them since Tuchel took over.  Take Werner for example v Leeds, he kept on trying to receive the ball to feet against a defence sat deep.  All game he was trying to knock it pass the FB, and keep on running it out of play. We all know his strength is his pace, so why not move the ball quicker and getting him using his movement? That is something that can be corrected, and should have been corrected by now. Sterling & Salah were both raw pace merchants but Klopp & Pep figured out how to utilise their pace.

Vinicius Jnr is another who played like a headless chicken under Zidane, and was the verge of been sold. Ancelotti came in, corrected his positioning and body shape and he is looking potentially like a world class game player.

Tell you what; put the forwards aside, what player in the whole squad has improved under Tuchel?

1 minute ago, ducavis said:

Bar Ziyech they are all at the right age to be coached though, I just can’t see any improvement in any of them since Tuchel took over.  Take Werner for example v Leeds, he kept on trying to receive the ball to feet against a defence sat deep.  All game he was trying to knock it pass the FB, and keep on running it out of play. We all know his strength is his pace, so why not move the ball quicker and getting him using his movement? That is something that can be corrected, and should have been corrected by now. Sterling & Salah were both raw pace merchants but Klopp & Pep figured out how to utilise their pace.

Vinicius Jnr is another who played like a headless chicken under Zidane, and was the verge of been sold. Ancelotti came in, corrected his positioning and body shape and he is looking potentially like a world class game player.

Tell you what; put the forwards aside, what player in the whole squad has improved under Tuchel?

Our defence as possession has improved. Christensen, Rudiger, Jorginho have gotten better whereas under Lamps I wanted these guys to leave. Unfortunately though, these aren't the ones who will help us score goals.

Not a single attacking player has gotten better, I feel like they are left to do their thing. We would need a bunch of self starters like Hazard who play the same way in any formation to succeed.

1 minute ago, Scott Harris said:

So many fans have convinced themselves that it's the system that is the problem and not the players. It seems that people have quickly forgotten that Lampard never played this system and our attacking players still struggled. We can go further back and include Sarri and Conte in this too. 

The simple fact is that we have had one consistenly good attacking player since we last won the title, and the 2 seasons before he left, he was carrying the whole attack on his back. Hazard is the only consistent attacking player we have had in since we won the title. Everybody else has not been good enough, and it's not because of the system, it's because of them.

Tuchel in 37 PL games which is almost a full season, has managed to make the team score 64 goals in total.
That's just 1 goal more in comparison to a very pragmatic and rigid Sarri that instructed the team to play with 0 risk-taking and with a very low amount of crosses made, at this point I'm not sure who plays a more attractive style because Sarri wants the ball and wants movement without the ball.

I'm sure that our squad now is overall better than the one Sarri had, our defense is better and while our midfield is basically the same there is no question about us having more options in attack, yes Hazard was consistent but we sold him and since then we bought Ziyech, Werner, Havertz and Lukaku. A decent manager should be able to make a decent attack from those players, proof is that those players prior to coming here to play together had arguably worse squads and managed to do well.

Example:
Lampard made Tammy into a decent striker that in his first PL season scored 15 goals, Willian and Pulisic had 9 goals each that's 30+ goals distributed among that front 3.
Tuchel's top scorers this season are Mount with 7 goals and then we have James with 4, Chilwell with 3, Lukaku with 3 and Jorginho with 4 from the penalty spot.
Chilwell played only 6 games and has 3 goals and 1 assist, Tuchel's tactic is all about relying on James and Chilwell, they are the ones to exploit the space and when that isn't working there is no plan B.

It's not Tuchel's fault that he's missing a lot of players, can't blame him for that but let's be honest, Liverpool last season missed their best defenders and their attack bailed them out, that's something that I don't see Tuchel being capable of coping with at all. 

7 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Liverpool last season missed their best defenders and their attack bailed them out, that's something that I don't see Tuchel being capable of coping with at all. 

You seem to have forgotten about them losing 6 home games in a row last season  ?

Not much baling out from their attack in that run of games :-) 

Klopp could do f**k all about it, similarly to the challenge TT is having right now. At least we aren't losing many !

In the space of a few weeks, our attack and midfield have become so toothless looking. A long way off from European Champions or PL contenders.

There are just not enough goals in any of them. I know some of them have been out and are only just coming back but Kante, Kovacic and Jorginho have never been players you look to when you wonder where the goals are coming from (bar Jorgi's penalties). Add to that, Ziyech, CHO and Pulicic + Werner and Havertz and it's a shockingly poor return. Only Lukaku and Mount look like making half decent numbers and even they are hit and miss. Compare that to City and the dippers who have players scoring for fun. 

We still miss what Hazard gave us and also are still have Mourinho to thank for selling KDB and Salah which would have set us for years. Right now we could do with what Conor Gallagher is providing for Palace. 

Not his biggest fan but have to feel for Ross Barkley today. More of a goal threat than any of the other midfield options but still didn't get on. Should demand a move in January.

 

5 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

You seem to have forgotten about them losing 6 home games in a row last season  ?

Not much baling out from their attack in that run of games 🙂

Klopp could do f**k all about it, similarly to the challenge TT is having right now. At least we aren't losing many !

That's just a sample, they should have been in huge trouble without having their 3 first choice CBs but the fact is in the last 10 matches they managed to have 7 wins and 2 draws which was enough for a top 3, ahead of us. I simply don't see Tuchel being capable of doing the same without our defenders because he based the whole system on defense while Klopp on attack.

Just now, Gol15 said:

That's just a sample, they should have been in huge trouble without having their 3 first choice CBs but the fact is in the last 10 matches they managed to have 7 wins and 2 draws which was enough for a top 3, ahead of us. I simply don't see Tuchel being capable of doing the same without our defenders because he based the whole system on defense while Klopp on attack.

2 draws and 6 losses in 8 straight home games over 2+ months is a bit more than just "a sample" but I don't blame you for trying to defend your point !

They were basically missing Van Dijk and Henderson - not half the team like we have had out ... and they pretty much had their first choice front line in my "sample". We've lost all our midfield and all our strikers recently ! And our left back.

Anyway - back to Spurs/Liverpool !

 

1 minute ago, Sexyfootball said:

2 draws and 6 losses in 8 straight home games over 2+ months is a bit more than just "a sample" but I don't blame you for trying to defend your point !

They were basically missing Van Dijk and Henderson - not half the team like we have had out ... and they pretty much had their first choice front line in my "sample". We've lost all our midfield and all our strikers recently ! And our left back.

Anyway - back to Spurs/Liverpool !

 

My point is that I believe that even if Tuchel had all attackers but missed the centre backs he wouldn't be able to finish top 3, the fact is Liverpool's attack saved their season.

They were missing Van Dijk, Matip, Gomez for the majority of the last season and at some points also Keita and Henderson as well for more than 5 games.

Should play Jude SB and Harvey Vale in midweek. 

CP, Ziyech and Mount have been truly abysmal when we needed them to step up these 2 games.

12 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

What you'd do is play 4-3-3, with proper wingers who can score, and a dedicated DM to shield the defence. 

I think this is the reason why Lampard wanted Declan Rice : to enable him to field two box to box midfielders in front of Rice, who could both add to the goal threat.

But we clearly need better wingers, as out of Pulsic, Ziyech and CHO, probably only CHO is the right stuff, and even then it's more a view of his potential and "ceiling" rather than any actual impact career-to-date. 

Our winger is fine, puli and cho are perfectly good winger but I agree with you If we want to play back 4 then dm suddenly become a priority no 1.

Having said that,the way our squad are currently constructed really suit back 3 more than back 4.

 

16 hours ago, ducavis said:

Tell you what; put the forwards aside, what player in the whole squad has improved under Tuchel?

Just about everyone? 

James, Chalobah, Christensen, Rudiger, Silva, Chilwell, Jorginho, Kante, Kovacic, Mount, Hudson Odoi, Havertz.

Here's what Mount said about him last week

 

 

For me one simple thing that I like to see is to have one of pulisic or cho playing as lw so we can have one on one threat.

 

Lukaku aside, still painfully terrible. Gives me a headache thinking how bad we are. CHO, Mason today were urrrrgh

19 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

Lukaku aside, still painfully terrible. Gives me a headache thinking how bad we are. CHO, Mason today were urrrrgh

Mason has what, 5 goals in 6 games and CHO was heavily involved in all 3 goals today? 

Just now, Blueboys said:

Mason has what, 5 goals in 6 games and CHO was heavily involved in all 3 goals today? 

7 goals and 3 assists in the last 8 games for Mason. 

4 minutes ago, Munkworth said:

7 goals and 3 assists in the last 8 games for Mason. 

Thanks 🙂 couldn’t be bothered to look up the correct stats to reply so went roughly! 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Blueboys said:

Thanks 🙂 couldn’t be bothered to look up the correct stats to reply so went roughly! 

 

 

I only remember so I can correct @axman2526 when he’s slagging him off…

1 hour ago, Munkworth said:

I only remember so I can correct @axman2526 when he’s slagging him off…

Now now slagging off is a bit heavy handed their @Munkworth. His previous output of goals prior to my comment about his lack of goals was severally lacking. He has had a wonderful run and has given you lovely ammunition to send my way. 

Let's hope today's open goal miss was an isolated incident and not a return to the norm prior to that first comment eh?

5 hours ago, KonaKai Blue said:

Lukaku aside, still painfully terrible. Gives me a headache thinking how bad we are. CHO, Mason today were urrrrgh

If we take their displays simply on that one really great chance CHO had, and that absolute sitter Mount missed, then yes, very bad.

However Cal made some good runs, one got us the first pen. He also supplied the superb cross Rom scored from. We certainly need to see more service like that. 

Mason I will grant you was below his recent levels but still involved in some good bits of team moves.

Everyone still needs lots of extra finishing practice.

9 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Let's hope today's open goal miss was an isolated incident and not a return to the norm prior to that first comment eh?

It was to remind us all that he is actually human. 

AHEM!!!!

Since Eden left, not one player has been close to his game changing level. Shocking.

I'm confident we can improve our squad by selling 4 of them and use that money to find other players.

15 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

AHEM!!!!

Since Eden left, not one player has been close to his game changing level. Shocking.

Question is whether the current Eden would make any difference ?  If Roman thinks it will then I expect to see him arrive on loan in January. It might well be the lift we need.

For sure, we need some forwards whose basic instinct is to score. Only Lukaku, and to a much lesser extent Mount, seem to have this ... but the others ... pffff ... 

 

1 minute ago, Sexyfootball said:

Question is whether the current Eden would make any difference ?  If Roman thinks it will then I expect to see him arrive on loan in January. It might well be the lift we need.

For sure, we need some forwards whose basic instinct is to score. Only Lukaku, and to a much lesser extent Mount, seem to have this ... but the others ... pffff ... 

 

I'm not even saying to bring the current Eden back. 3 years have passed. 

Absolutely shocking how we haven't come close to finding an attacking talent at that level.

Although I must remind myself, we won the champions league so remain grateful.

17 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

AHEM!!!!

Since Eden left, not one player has been close to his game changing level. Shocking.

Even when he was here, the players around him were just as bad as what we are seeing now. Morata, Willian, Pedro (towards the end) Barkley, Higuain, Giroud (scored some big goals)

Hazard was basically carrying the whole attack on his back throughout a lot of his time with us. This is why I often got annoyed at fans when they would criticise him for his form dropping for a few games. Nobody around him would step up when he couldn't, nobody. It was always Hazard, and the past 3 seasons we have gone without him has highlighted just how poor of an attacking team we are.