Ian Wright made a good point today saying that our forwards lack chemistry and play like individuals, there's no cohesion.

5 minutes ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

Ian Wright made a good point today saying that our forwards lack chemistry and play like individuals, there's no cohesion.

He's obviously been reading this thread !

In the same way that Tuchel shored up the defence, there MUST be a way of getting our attackers to function as a unit. Surely?

There is zero chemistry or link up play. Our defence and midfield is decent, it’s our attack which lets us down. 

14 minutes ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

Ian Wright made a good point today saying that our forwards lack chemistry and play like individuals, there's no cohesion.

How is there going to be any cohesion when the big fat 9 is asking for everyone to be his dogs fetching and giving him balls when he then gets the plaudits and award for scoring goals?

To put it bluntly I have no confidence in any of them.

Odoi is a jack of some trades and a master of none. Any partially competent full back would be delighted to be facing him. Nothing remotely threatening about him.

Ziyech plays as if he is trying to remember if he left the oven on. He is one of the finest examples of 'being good in the Dutch league is bugger all evidence of quality'

Pulisic has all the consistency of my nan's custard and she has been dead for 25 years. 

Werner is like a schoolkid playing football. Seems to think just running straight at a defender is all he needs to do. 

Havertz is lightweight with the occasional good moment. Much like Jimmy Somerville's music career.

Lukaku is Drogba without goals, without defensive contribution, without  ability in the air, and without big game mentality. So I guess I mean he is Paul Furlong but less likeable.

I'd happily see us bring in Suarez on a 18 month contract, and take a gamble on Hazard. Think we should also have rolled the dice on Coutinho.

 

14 minutes ago, loz said:

To put it bluntly I have no confidence in any of them.

Odoi is a jack of some trades and a master of none. Any partially competent full back would be delighted to be facing him. Nothing remotely threatening about him.

Ziyech plays as if he is trying to remember if he left the oven on. He is one of the finest examples of 'being good in the Dutch league is bugger all evidence of quality'

Pulisic has all the consistency of my nan's custard and she has been dead for 25 years. 

Werner is like a schoolkid playing football. Seems to think just running straight at a defender is all he needs to do. 

Havertz is lightweight with the occasional good moment. Much like Jimmy Somerville's music career.

Lukaku is Drogba without goals, without defensive contribution, without  ability in the air, and without big game mentality. So I guess I mean he is Paul Furlong but less likeable.

I'd happily see us bring in Suarez on a 18 month contract, and take a gamble on Hazard. Think we should also have rolled the dice on Coutinho.

 

Can't really disagree with much of that. The best attacking option on our books is currently at Southampton. Although in our current system I'm not sure many strikers would thrive.

Don't think it matters who TT picks out of our forwards. They are all useless.

It's actually embarrassing how much we've spent on attacking players and not one single one of them is any good. Is this club any good at scouting, AT ALL?! Klopp took Mane and made him into a great winger and goal scorer. Same for Salah, who already had a lot of talent, but he's gone to the next level at Liverpool.

Why is this club always like this? People have praised this club's business for years, but in the last few years it's been abysmal. We just cannot find the right manager or right players to find a consistency on par with Liverpool and City. 

1 hour ago, enigma said:

It's actually embarrassing how much we've spent on attacking players and not one single one of them is any good. 

It is, but it's because we invest a lot hoping that players come good in a system vs being able to develop a system from the ground up. 

If we're being really honest the last time Chelsea had a deliberate,  consistent, cohesive attacking strategy was under Ranieri nearly twenty years ago. We've had some managers create some great counter-attacking football since then but not one manager has developed an attacking plan that isn't a slight variation of get-the-ball-wide-and-cross. Tuchel is no exception - since the CL final, we have scarcely created a chance, let alone scored a goal, that resemble's Havertz's winner.

City have a system. They are able to win and dominate games regardless of whether De Bruyne, Bernardo Silva or anyone else is playing. Having their top attackers is the icing on the cake, rather than crucial to their chances of success. Liverpool are similar provided two of Mane, Salah or Jota are on the field. However, both teams rely on their defenders being fit and firing.

At Chelsea we have more or less have the opposite. Almost any player can slot into the 3-ATB defensive system with indifference, allowing lesser players (like Kepa or Sarr) to perform adequately and even allows inexperienced players (like Chalobah) to shine. However, our attack and midfield is a shambles, with not a single attacker in decent form and entirely reliant on one of Kovacic or Kante to partner Jorginho in midfield.

The net result is that while Liverpool or City need only to worry about 2-4 positions, Chelsea managers have to sweat on the form/fitness of 8-10.

To be truly successful it would require Tuchel to rip-up what made him so successful in the Champions League and earlier in the season. It is tempting to simply write this off as a question of player avaiability/form, and to an extent, that would be correct. But is that system so dominant, so successful that it is a good long-term blueprint? Our results of late would challenge that. In some ways, Tuchel's challenge is more similar to Mourinho's challenge in 2007-08 where a wildly successful, generation-defining tactical blueprint needed to rapidly evolve with the times. 

Tuchel actually already rose to that challenge earlier this season. The deployment of Chilwell/Alonso and James as attacking, playmaking fullbacks had us cruising, until both got injured while the system was starting to take shape. That was a cruel blow. What would have become of tiki-taka had Xavi and Iniesta been injured two months into its arrival, or Bayern's system minus Lewandowski and Robben/Ribery in the beginning? Where would Mourinho's Chelsea be, had Robben not appeared with bang or Lampard found his feet under Ranieri? 

 

Quote

We just cannot find the right manager or right players to find a consistency on par with Liverpool and City. 

Klopp and Guardiola did not transform their teams from diamonds in the rough. They have spent considerable amounts of cash and were given exceptionally long ropes. Guardiola finished 3rd, 15 points behind Chelsea in his first season, and despite being a clear favourite for the title. Klopp failed to trouble the leaderboard at any point in his first two years though he did make a CL final - which he lost.

Tuchel, who hasn't even completed 12 months at the club, is in a far better place than these teams despite the effect of COVID basically ruining any sort of consistency in training or matchday. By my calculations many of the players have barely had a week together in training since the wave of COVID outbreaks in November.

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 20224 yr by SydneyChelsea

11 hours ago, loz said:

To put it bluntly I have no confidence in any of them.

Odoi is a jack of some trades and a master of none. Any partially competent full back would be delighted to be facing him. Nothing remotely threatening about him.

Ziyech plays as if he is trying to remember if he left the oven on. He is one of the finest examples of 'being good in the Dutch league is bugger all evidence of quality'

Pulisic has all the consistency of my nan's custard and she has been dead for 25 years. 

Werner is like a schoolkid playing football. Seems to think just running straight at a defender is all he needs to do. 

Havertz is lightweight with the occasional good moment. Much like Jimmy Somerville's music career.

Lukaku is Drogba without goals, without defensive contribution, without  ability in the air, and without big game mentality. So I guess I mean he is Paul Furlong but less likeable.

I'd happily see us bring in Suarez on a 18 month contract, and take a gamble on Hazard. Think we should also have rolled the dice on Coutinho.

 

It's that bad that I agree with your transfer suggestions.

12 hours ago, loz said:

To put it bluntly I have no confidence in any of them.

Odoi is a jack of some trades and a master of none. Any partially competent full back would be delighted to be facing him. Nothing remotely threatening about him.

Ziyech plays as if he is trying to remember if he left the oven on. He is one of the finest examples of 'being good in the Dutch league is bugger all evidence of quality'

Pulisic has all the consistency of my nan's custard and she has been dead for 25 years. 

Werner is like a schoolkid playing football. Seems to think just running straight at a defender is all he needs to do. 

Havertz is lightweight with the occasional good moment. Much like Jimmy Somerville's music career.

Lukaku is Drogba without goals, without defensive contribution, without  ability in the air, and without big game mentality. So I guess I mean he is Paul Furlong but less likeable.

I'd happily see us bring in Suarez on a 18 month contract, and take a gamble on Hazard. Think we should also have rolled the dice on Coutinho.

 

All the players on that list were bought in the last three years and cost over 300m. Is this a case of bad luck or are our scouts stealing a living?

Ziyech/Havertz/Werner

Mount/Havertz/Werner

Mount/Havertz/CHO 

All of those combinations have shown various degrees of potential. Go for a consistent run playing one of those three combo's (depending on opponent) and if they're still not cutting it fine but give them the best possible platform first.

In light of the comments on here (which I don’t necessarily disagree with), Tuchel needs to be cut some slack on selection. The forum was near unanimous that he got the front 3 selection wrong v city:”I knew it as soon as I saw the team sheet..”if only we’d played Havertz/werner/odoi” etc? But now these players are just as unanimously (ok a few dissenters) disregarded?

2 hours ago, Dean said:

In light of the comments on here (which I don’t necessarily disagree with), Tuchel needs to be cut some slack on selection. The forum was near unanimous that he got the front 3 selection wrong v city:”I knew it as soon as I saw the team sheet..”if only we’d played Havertz/werner/odoi” etc? But now these players are just as unanimously (ok a few dissenters) disregarded?

If he rolls with one of the front 3 i mentioned above for a while and see's how things developed then i will cut him some slack for a bit, if nothing else we will atleast play good/modern/intense football again.

We were really onto something with the Mount/Kai/Werner front 3, yes finishing was poor but we were really troubling teams and there was a lot of potential if we gave it a chance to naturally evolve. 

.....Not very confident at all (to answer the original question of the thread).

I'd go with a Kai, Werner & Mount combo though.

They looked the liveliest combination IMO and making chances but missing them has surely got to be better than not even making the chances to miss them...

1 hour ago, KonaKai Blue said:

So... Pretty confident eh? 😂

1 hour ago, KonaKai Blue said:

Werner a goal every 6.57 games

Havertz a goal every 7.16 games

Cp a goal every 4 games

Ziyech  a goal every 8.75 games

CHO a goal every 17.75 games!

Wow @Argo CHO really needs to pull his finger out, truly awful.

To answer my original question, I am confident in our forwards to deliver TT his severance papers.

2 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Werner a goal every 6.57 games

Havertz a goal every 7.16 games

Cp a goal every 4 games

Ziyech  a goal every 8.75 games

CHO a goal every 17.75 games!

Wow @Argo CHO really needs to pull his finger out, truly awful.

To answer my original question, I am confident in our forwards to deliver TT his severance papers.

I never defended his finishing, it's awful. Where i will defend him is from a creative/decision making sense, it's a lot better than he gets credit for. Even THAT one vs Brighton neatly finds it's way to Mount without an illegal intervention.

2 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Werner a goal every 6.57 games

Havertz a goal every 7.16 games

Cp a goal every 4 games

Ziyech  a goal every 8.75 games

CHO a goal every 17.75 games!

Wow @Argo CHO really needs to pull his finger out, truly awful.

To answer my original question, I am confident in our forwards to deliver TT his severance papers.

To me Rashford's goal last night summed up CHO's failings in front of the goal.

You can argue about consistency, attitude or whatsoever, but he got in and minutes later he's through and smashes the ball into the top of the net while CHO blazes it over, repeteadly hits tame shots or gets passes intercepted (even with the hand thing, I believe he should've went for it himself).

I really do wish we had someone to punch our players on the mouth before each game, so maybe they start being agressive (to the opponent), like Timo had in that game where he played pissed off and was great. 

7 minutes ago, Argo said:

I never defended his finishing, it's awful. Where i will defend him is from a creative/decision making sense, it's a lot better than he gets credit for. Even THAT one vs Brighton neatly finds it's way to Mount without an illegal intervention.

Aye true. Did not know it was that bad though does he not bother to even practice them.

On 19/01/2022 at 10:28, SydneyChelsea said:

It is, but it's because we invest a lot hoping that players come good in a system vs being able to develop a system from the ground up. 

If we're being really honest the last time Chelsea had a deliberate,  consistent, cohesive attacking strategy was under Ranieri nearly twenty years ago. We've had some managers create some great counter-attacking football since then but not one manager has developed an attacking plan that isn't a slight variation of get-the-ball-wide-and-cross. Tuchel is no exception - since the CL final, we have scarcely created a chance, let alone scored a goal, that resemble's Havertz's winner.

City have a system. They are able to win and dominate games regardless of whether De Bruyne, Bernardo Silva or anyone else is playing. Having their top attackers is the icing on the cake, rather than crucial to their chances of success. Liverpool are similar provided two of Mane, Salah or Jota are on the field. However, both teams rely on their defenders being fit and firing.

At Chelsea we have more or less have the opposite. Almost any player can slot into the 3-ATB defensive system with indifference, allowing lesser players (like Kepa or Sarr) to perform adequately and even allows inexperienced players (like Chalobah) to shine. However, our attack and midfield is a shambles, with not a single attacker in decent form and entirely reliant on one of Kovacic or Kante to partner Jorginho in midfield.

The net result is that while Liverpool or City need only to worry about 2-4 positions, Chelsea managers have to sweat on the form/fitness of 8-10.

To be truly successful it would require Tuchel to rip-up what made him so successful in the Champions League and earlier in the season. It is tempting to simply write this off as a question of player avaiability/form, and to an extent, that would be correct. But is that system so dominant, so successful that it is a good long-term blueprint? Our results of late would challenge that. In some ways, Tuchel's challenge is more similar to Mourinho's challenge in 2007-08 where a wildly successful, generation-defining tactical blueprint needed to rapidly evolve with the times. 

Tuchel actually already rose to that challenge earlier this season. The deployment of Chilwell/Alonso and James as attacking, playmaking fullbacks had us cruising, until both got injured while the system was starting to take shape. That was a cruel blow. What would have become of tiki-taka had Xavi and Iniesta been injured two months into its arrival, or Bayern's system minus Lewandowski and Robben/Ribery in the beginning? Where would Mourinho's Chelsea be, had Robben not appeared with bang or Lampard found his feet under Ranieri? 

 

Klopp and Guardiola did not transform their teams from diamonds in the rough. They have spent considerable amounts of cash and were given exceptionally long ropes. Guardiola finished 3rd, 15 points behind Chelsea in his first season, and despite being a clear favourite for the title. Klopp failed to trouble the leaderboard at any point in his first two years though he did make a CL final - which he lost.

Tuchel, who hasn't even completed 12 months at the club, is in a far better place than these teams despite the effect of COVID basically ruining any sort of consistency in training or matchday. By my calculations many of the players have barely had a week together in training since the wave of COVID outbreaks in November.

 

 

 

It is not a coincidence that eveyone was complaining about our cb under Lamp and now we are complaining about our fw under Tuchel and why suddenly dm is no longer our no 1 priority.

I agree with your point of needing to rip the team apart. It is so difficult to improve last year team. I said maybe salah, prime messi or maybe fabregas. 

But If we decide to rip it apart, we will have an intresting season with so many question mark. Can we get a dm ? Is our cb group good enough ? And we still have question about our fw ?

 

 

Edited January 21, 20224 yr by Bob stark

Joe Cole has come out and blamed our style of play, slow transitions and Midfielders not spotting forward runs as the reason for our failures up front.

He has said Werner or CP would be banging in goals for Liverpool and implied any forward in the world would struggle in our side.

He said TT needs to sort it fast and implied he would not see much longer if he does not.

3 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Joe Cole has come out and blamed our style of play, slow transitions and Midfielders not spotting forward runs as the reason for our failures up front.

He has said Werner or CP would be banging in goals for Liverpool and implied any forward in the world would struggle in our side.

He said TT needs to sort it fast and implied he would not see much longer if he does not.

That would be some insight if I hadn't witnessed our forwards and full-backs missing so many clear-cut chances over the past season.

Thinking how Chalobah and Rudiger managed to score 3 goals each and how Rudiger won some penalties and also T.Silva scored twice, they don't seem to suffer this thing of not being spotted, maybe they're just too handsome or very tall?

4 hours ago, Gol15 said:

That would be some insight if I hadn't witnessed our forwards and full-backs missing so many clear-cut chances over the past season.

I think the point is that any top player still needs multiple chances to score. Our lot don't get enough chances, mainly down to all the things Joe was talking about, and hence they have to be more clinical in their conversion rate than say Salah, Kane etc have to be ... which all adds to the pressure.