57 minutes ago, Argo said:

Am I the only one finding the situation a bit surreal?

I mean, in the past it didn't take me long to adapt to the likes of Pedro, Oli and Cesc as Chelsea players but I'm finding Sterling and Auba here with Potter as manager so odd.

Not in a bad way, I love Sterling so far, have nothing against Auba and Potter was my first pick once I heard Tuchel was gone but seeing all three of them on the highlights of the last game felt like an outer body experience, just can't get use to it.

Is not the club we have been used to for near 20 years. Despite the spending, just feels less professional and more of us being a no hoper of a side where the big honors are concerned.

Sterling is out of place here. He is at peak of his career and performing very well, he is too good for this side.

Edited September 16, 20223 yr by axman2526

2 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Is not the club we have been used to for near 20 years. Despite the spending, just feels less professional and more of us being a no hoper of a side where the big honors are concerned.

Sterling is out of place here. He is at peak of his career and performing very well, he is too good for this side.

This hit home for me for some reason. I'm so used to seeing Chelsea teams be so dogged in defending, soak up pressure then hit teams with real quality doesn't matter if it's a corner header, free kick, thunderbast*rds or whatever. Teams used to hate playing us because they know how much of a threat we are and how tough it is to get a result from the Bridge.

These days every time I watch these players all I keep assuming is the defenders passing to each other 

2 minutes ago, Deino said:

This hit home for me for some reason. I'm so used to seeing Chelsea teams be so dogged in defending, soak up pressure then hit teams with real quality doesn't matter if it's a corner header, free kick, thunderbast*rds or whatever. Teams used to hate playing us because they know how much of a threat we are and how tough it is to get a result from the Bridge.

These days every time I watch these players all I keep assuming is the defenders passing to each other 

Seen a few old clips of the Jose, Carlo and Conte sides and some of the players we had then. JT, Lamps, Cech, Ricky, Cahill, Ash, Brana, Ballack, Maka, Essien, Duff, Robben, Hazard, Drogba, Costa etc

Hand on heart none of this squad get near those teams. Kante at his peak would, but I personally would not have him ahead of a prime Essien.

4 minutes ago, Deino said:

This hit home for me for some reason. I'm so used to seeing Chelsea teams be so dogged in defending, soak up pressure then hit teams with real quality doesn't matter if it's a corner header, free kick, thunderbast*rds or whatever. Teams used to hate playing us because they know how much of a threat we are and how tough it is to get a result from the Bridge.

These days every time I watch these players all I keep assuming is the defenders passing to each other 

That's what we looked like in almost every big game under Tuchel. The only big game where we've underperformed is the 1st leg against Real who went on to win the competition (and we still dominated that game stats wise).

 

Potter has a pretty decent record in big games for Brighton, but it remains to be seen whether he can emulate that here.

2 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Seen a few old clips of the Jose, Carlo and Conte sides and some of the players we had then. JT, Lamps, Cech, Ricky, Cahill, Ash, Brana, Ballack, Maka, Essien, Duff, Robben, Hazard, Drogba, Costa etc

Hand on heart none of this squad get near those teams. Kante at his peak would, but I personally would not have him ahead of a prime Essien.

Even more impressive that Tuchel did what he did given our only world class players were Reece James, a 36 year old Silva and an unfit Kante. Wonder what he could have achieved with the Chelsea squad of old

15 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Seen a few old clips of the Jose, Carlo and Conte sides and some of the players we had then. JT, Lamps, Cech, Ricky, Cahill, Ash, Brana, Ballack, Maka, Essien, Duff, Robben, Hazard, Drogba, Costa etc

Hand on heart none of this squad get near those teams. Kante at his peak would, but I personally would not have him ahead of a prime Essien.

James gets into all of them. Silva would get in Ancelotti's team too.

James, Sterling Silva, Kova/Jorgi, Chilwell (and an in form K2) would get into Conte's side.

Maybe I'm just overly pessimistic, but despite all the spending, it just feels like we're heading backwards and are going to become the new Arsenal, with the onlny hope for the season being a top 4 place.

12 minutes ago, Argo said:

James gets into all of them. Silva would get in Ancelotti's team too.

James, Sterling Silva, Kova/Jorgi, Chilwell (and an in form K2) would get into Conte's side.

Fair point on Silva, especially in his pomp. I don't agree James gets in to all of them. A peak Brana is still ahead of anything Reece has shown for me so far.

1 minute ago, axman2526 said:

Fair point on Silva, especially in his pomp. I don't agree James gets in to all of them. A peak Brana is still ahead of anything Reece has shown for me so far.

The Milan Silva would get in all of them, i'm talking about this one.

12 minutes ago, Zeta said:

Maybe I'm just overly pessimistic, but despite all the spending, it just feels like we're heading backwards and are going to become the new Arsenal, with the onlny hope for the season being a top 4 place.

Once you digest it, it becomes less disappointing. New owners, inexpensively manager (at the top level), poorest squad we have had in 20 years. It all adds up.

1 minute ago, Argo said:

The Milan Silva would get in all of them, i'm talking about this one.

Fair enough.

19 minutes ago, Argo said:

The Milan Silva would get in all of them, i'm talking about this one.

Feel like Silva somewhat wasted his career staying in the French League. Had he stayed in Serie A or went to the Prem he'd go down as one of the greatest defenders of all time. Especially when you look at how good he is at this age.

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

Seen a few old clips of the Jose, Carlo and Conte sides and some of the players we had then. JT, Lamps, Cech, Ricky, Cahill, Ash, Brana, Ballack, Maka, Essien, Duff, Robben, Hazard, Drogba, Costa etc

Hand on heart none of this squad get near those teams. Kante at his peak would, but I personally would not have him ahead of a prime Essien.

I have said it before but we seem to be at the same stage as both Arsenal and Man Utd after their great periods under Wenger and Fergie. Wenger lost that backbone of Seaman, Adams, Bould/Keown, Dixon, Vierra etc and they steadily went into decline. Fergie was able to act and replace players and prolong success, but even he would have struggled by the time he retired and poor Moyes inherited a much inferior squad. 

And here we are. No longer with any of the quality names you mention above and even after a lot of our backbone left (Cech, JT, Ash, Ivan, Lamps, Drogba), we still had an absolute gem in Hazard who literally carried us and was the difference between 1 point and 3 in so many matches. Don't want to do a disservice to Silva and Kante who are world class (possibly the only two in the squad currently, but getting towards to ends of their careers). The rest are a bit of a mixture - with a number nowhere near good enough.

Under TT, I honestly thought with a few tweaks we could be up there challenging City and Liverpool. A top striker, creative midfielder, a winger who actually takes defenders on and beats them plus a better keeper. Now, suddenly we look a million miles away and Potter has a massive job on his hands to even get us top 4. Too many average players  - we offloaded a few but still have too many "squad" players. Very few actual game changers / match winners (Sterling the notable exception but that just underlines how far we are off city when they could afford to let him go and he's now one of our best players).

 

4 minutes ago, Nibs said:

I have said it before but we seem to be at the same stage as both Arsenal and Man Utd after their great periods under Wenger and Fergie. Wenger lost that backbone of Seaman, Adams, Bould/Keown, Dixon, Vierra etc and they steadily went into decline. Fergie was able to act and replace players and prolong success, but even he would have struggled by the time he retired and poor Moyes inherited a much inferior squad. 

And here we are. No longer with any of the quality names you mention above and even after a lot of our backbone left (Cech, JT, Ash, Ivan, Lamps, Drogba), we still had an absolute gem in Hazard who literally carried us and was the difference between 1 point and 3 in so many matches. Don't want to do a disservice to Silva and Kante who are world class (possibly the only two in the squad currently, but getting towards to ends of their careers). The rest are a bit of a mixture - with a number nowhere near good enough.

Under TT, I honestly thought with a few tweaks we could be up there challenging City and Liverpool. A top striker, creative midfielder, a winger who actually takes defenders on and beats them plus a better keeper. Now, suddenly we look a million miles away and Potter has a massive job on his hands to even get us top 4. Too many average players  - we offloaded a few but still have too many "squad" players. Very few actual game changers / match winners (Sterling the notable exception but that just underlines how far we are off city when they could afford to let him go and he's now one of our best players).

 

Yup, if anything I could see Sterling leaves after 2 years if we are not back in the CL. He may accept next season missing out on it, but a second season after? Nah either Spurs, Arsenal or United. Whoever is in the CL.

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

Yup, if anything I could see Sterling leaves after 2 years if we are not back in the CL. He may accept next season missing out on it, but a second season after? Nah either Spurs, Arsenal or United. Whoever is in the CL.

That is sad.

9 minutes ago, Kev56 said:

That is sad.

Aye would be. I think Potter is where Arteta started and will need 2 or 3 years to see us competitive again. Maybe more, and he may not get it.

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

Aye would be. I think Potter is where Arteta started and will need 2 or 3 years to see us competitive again. Maybe more, and he may not get it.

Hasn’t potter been managing before Arteta?

2 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Aye would be. I think Potter is where Arteta started and will need 2 or 3 years to see us competitive again. Maybe more, and he may not get it.

I think you need to get a grip.

32 minutes ago, El regreso said:

Hasn’t potter been managing before Arteta?

Poor phrasing there on my part. I meant Potter is with us at a starting point like Arteta was for Arsenal. 

Putting in a new philosophy, building a new squad, looking to move on deadwood players and replace aging key ones (somr of that started this summer before he came).

Did not mean in terms of managerial experience.

23 minutes ago, dkw said:

I think you need to get a grip.

Happy to be proven wrong dicky, just believe we have a big rebuild going on and will take time to get there. 

3 hours ago, Nibs said:

I have said it before but we seem to be at the same stage as both Arsenal and Man Utd after their great periods under Wenger and Fergie. Wenger lost that backbone of Seaman, Adams, Bould/Keown, Dixon, Vierra etc and they steadily went into decline. Fergie was able to act and replace players and prolong success, but even he would have struggled by the time he retired and poor Moyes inherited a much inferior squad. 

And here we are. No longer with any of the quality names you mention above and even after a lot of our backbone left (Cech, JT, Ash, Ivan, Lamps, Drogba), we still had an absolute gem in Hazard who literally carried us and was the difference between 1 point and 3 in so many matches. Don't want to do a disservice to Silva and Kante who are world class (possibly the only two in the squad currently, but getting towards to ends of their careers). The rest are a bit of a mixture - with a number nowhere near good enough.

Under TT, I honestly thought with a few tweaks we could be up there challenging City and Liverpool. A top striker, creative midfielder, a winger who actually takes defenders on and beats them plus a better keeper. Now, suddenly we look a million miles away and Potter has a massive job on his hands to even get us top 4. Too many average players  - we offloaded a few but still have too many "squad" players. Very few actual game changers / match winners (Sterling the notable exception but that just underlines how far we are off city when they could afford to let him go and he's now one of our best players).

 

We've simply lost yet another competitive advantage on the clubs just below City and Liverpool. Over the last 6 years or so, we've had a competitive advantage in our midfield and defense, and occasionally our managers. Slowly our midfield has been crumbling due to personnel, age, & injuries. So until recently we could say we had 3 components of our team which were better than Arsenal, Spurs, Utd - after sacking Tuchel we are down to just the defense. And they are all at least on par in the other areas. 

As you say, it felt like we were a few signings away from realistically competing with City and Liverpool. And before the season started I thought they'd both be weaker as well given what they've lost. Right now it's all up in the air. 

3 hours ago, Nibs said:

Under TT, I honestly thought with a few tweaks we could be up there challenging City and Liverpool. A top striker, creative midfielder, a winger who actually takes defenders on and beats them

 

Under Tuchel, "taking on defenders and beating them" was not the wingers job,  You could see it game in and game out, the attacking payers job was to show backwards for a pass from the pivot, pass the ball to another midfielder, and make either a dummy run wide (which never worked because defenders always knew it was a decoy), or move into a channel hoping for a through ball. Show again, rinse, repeat. No one ever played as a traditional attacking winger.  Width came almost exclusively from wing backs played by guys who would be outside backs on other squads, who would drive to the flag, looking to loop a cross in along the way. They were not asked to try to get in behind the defense, The fact that this pattern was repeated over and over again, with very little alteration, tells you that this was coached,  The philosophy is that through such constant motion of off ball runs into the box, you could get overlaps in tight spaces and get a ball in on goal.  It never came from aggressive one-v-one play.  The only time you saw a player beat someone off a dribble, was to create space for the next pass.

11 minutes ago, Voorhesian said:

Under Tuchel, "taking on defenders and beating them" was not the wingers job,  You could see it game in and game out, the attacking payers job was to show backwards for a pass from the pivot, pass the ball to another midfielder, and make either a dummy run wide (which never worked because defenders always knew it was a decoy), or move into a channel hoping for a through ball. Show again, rinse, repeat. No one ever played as a traditional attacking winger.  Width came almost exclusively from wing backs played by guys who would be outside backs on other squads, who would drive to the flag, looking to loop a cross in along the way. They were not asked to try to get in behind the defense, The fact that this pattern was repeated over and over again, with very little alteration, tells you that this was coached,  The philosophy is that through such constant motion of off ball runs into the box, you could get overlaps in tight spaces and get a ball in on goal.  It never came from aggressive one-v-one play.  The only time you saw a player beat someone off a dribble, was to create space for the next pass.

To be fair to Tuchel for most of his time here he hasn't had a single winger capable of dribbling past anyone at pace.

Sterling looked bright off the dribble under Tuchel and created chances and got goals.

Not sure you can blame Tuchel for Pulisic and Ziyech having no natural dribbling ability, Werner, Mount and Havertz are hardly dribblers either.

Regardless of how we set up I wouldn't expect anyone other than Sterling to be able to consistently beat his man in the final 3rd, it isn't a tactical issue it's a technical ability issue and it's one that will pose a massive challenge to Potter just as it did to Tommy T.

Edited September 16, 20223 yr by HazardousChoice

Some good points made here. I agree this is our words squad for 20 years:

 

14 hours ago, Zeta said:

Maybe I'm just overly pessimistic, but despite all the spending, it just feels like we're heading backwards and are going to become the new Arsenal, with the onlny hope for the season being a top 4 place.

I think the problem here is not just us but we are competing with pool n city (predominantly city). PL is harder than before even the bottom feeder team can have 40 m player, but city scored 95+ points constantly. We are competing with a team who can go down 2-0 at half time and score 4 in the 2nd half with ease. It is a bit of a joke. 

Safe to say we can build a team who can go toe to toe vs city in one game but for 38 games it is whole another story.