If Kante had been fit and available, it probably would have saved Tuchel and Potter's jobs.

There's a thought.

55 minutes ago, just said:

If Kante had been fit and available, it probably would have saved Tuchel and Potter's jobs.

There's a thought.

Possible, but having to rely on one player goes to show we have massive problems regardless. 

My opinion is that we've been stuck and unable to ditch this slow possession-obsessed football that Sarri first integrated.

Our work rate isn't good enough anymore, and it could explain why we have so many injuries since we became a possession team since our players are not used to running at the opposition. If you look back at the days under Conte you'll notice a massive difference in our playstyle. 

But we've not helped the situation. We seem to recruit players that want to run onto the ball and not hold it, even though our system doesn't cater towards that. The Lukaku signing was a big indicator that we don't really know what we're doing, he was never going to thrive in a system like this, forget the fact he's extremely overrated. 

But because of the lack of workrate and team cohesion from our attacking and midfield players, we've been forced to always revert to a back 3 because we just can't seem to get going in the back 4. One thing I credited Potter for was trying to stick to a back 4, but even he had to go to a back 3 eventually because the results and performances just weren't good enough. 

36 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

Possible, but having to rely on one player goes to show we have massive problems regardless. 

My opinion is that we've been stuck and unable to ditch this slow possession-obsessed football that Sarri first integrated.

Our work rate isn't good enough anymore, and it could explain why we have so many injuries since we became a possession team since our players are not used to running at the opposition. If you look back at the days under Conte you'll notice a massive difference in our playstyle. 

But we've not helped the situation. We seem to recruit players that want to run onto the ball and not hold it, even though our system doesn't cater towards that. The Lukaku signing was a big indicator that we don't really know what we're doing, he was never going to thrive in a system like this, forget the fact he's extremely overrated. 

But because of the lack of workrate and team cohesion from our attacking and midfield players, we've been forced to always revert to a back 3 because we just can't seem to get going in the back 4. One thing I credited Potter for was trying to stick to a back 4, but even he had to go to a back 3 eventually because the results and performances just weren't good enough. 

This is why IMO managers should only have a certain level of say in who we sign. Tuchel despite all the good things he did for the club was the one who approved of Lukaku's signing and as well as Aubamayeng and several of the players we signed last summer. 

3 minutes ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

This is why IMO managers should only have a certain level of say in who we sign. Tuchel despite all the good things he did for the club was the one who approved of Lukaku's signing and as well as Aubamayeng and several of the players we signed last summer. 

Which is why we really needed a good DOF when Boehly came in. 

1 hour ago, just said:

If Kante had been fit and available, it probably would have saved Tuchel and Potter's jobs.

There's a thought.

If our management had just a little foresight they would've signed a capable backup for Kante. Going in the season depending on an injury prone player for probably the most important position on the pitch was suicidal and we've paid for it. Honestly it's baffling that we signed 365 attacking midfielders and defenders whilst consistently ignoring the defensive midfield position.

In the end, Tuchel looked frustrated and out of ideas. Maybe it was his personal life combined steering the club through the intensely political atmosphere took its toll on him. 

But Potter had almost a blank cheque in terms of results and performance yet we kept getting worse under him. Yes we had injury problems but don't tell me that our second string is inferior to Fulham, Brentford, Villa and Brighton. 

Just wish that Boehly showed the same patience with Tuchel that he showed Potter in tolerating his relegation level results and performances for this long.

1 minute ago, Nick05 said:

If our management had just a little foresight they would've signed a capable backup for Kante. Going in the season depending on an injury prone player for probably the most important position on the pitch was suicidal and we've paid for it. Honestly it's baffling that we signed 365 attacking midfielders and defenders whilst consistently ignoring the defensive midfield position.

In the end, Tuchel looked frustrated and out of ideas. Maybe it was his personal life combined steering the club through the intensely political atmosphere took its toll on him. 

But Potter had almost a blank cheque in terms of results and performance yet we kept getting worse under him. Yes we had injury problems but don't tell me that our second string is inferior to Fulham, Brentford, Villa and Brighton. 

Just wish that Boehly showed the same patience with Tuchel that he showed Potter in tolerating his relegation level results and performances for this long.

Some players it's impossible to sign a back up that will come even remotely close to the quality and consistency of the player you are looking to "back up". 

I said at that time Drogba left that it would  take decades before we found another striker who was even close to his all round ability. 

Some players are virtually irreplaceable. When will we find a midfielder who scores like Lampard? When will we find a centre-half who can lead like JT? When will find a midfielder like Essien who can completely dominate the opposition midfield by sheer physical strength and power. For those of us who are old enough, I don't think we have ever found a true winger who can dribble and cross with both feet like Pat Nevin did. And that was 40 years ago!

1 hour ago, Victor90 said:

My opinion is that we've been stuck and unable to ditch this slow possession-obsessed football that Sarri first integrated.
 

Victor, this paragraph here. Bravo. Total agreement. I have always said Sarriball took us backwards not forward.

1 minute ago, just said:

Victor, this paragraph here. Bravo. Total agreement. I have always said Sarriball took us backwards not forward.

It's not down to Sarriball why our players don't take their chances 5 years later, we have loads of opportunities to score every game, a 20+ goal striker would love to play up front for us. Brentford has one, we need him next season.

10 minutes ago, coco said:

It's not down to Sarriball why our players don't take their chances 5 years later, we have loads of opportunities to score every game, a 20+ goal striker would love to play up front for us. Brentford has one, we need him next season.

A mixture, I think Sarri came with a plan and did a relatively decent job here. It was a big task to get the team playing Sarri ball.

But we've been stuck with playing this style for a long time now, and our recruitment hasn't exactly helped the situation. Why do we keep signing players who aren't tailored for the system? Werner, as piss-poor as he was a times, we saw really good performances from him when we were counter-attacking (like the Champions League win). He was never going to thrive in games where we are playing the likes of Crystal Palace which are about 80% of our fixtures. 

He constantly wanted to run onto the ball and didn't want a pass at the touchline where there are around 2-3 players on him. He didn't have the skill set to play well that way, and I fear it's the same with Mudryk but I don't think he's as limited as Werner. All the more we seem to sign players who don't suit the system. So what we needed to do was either ditch the system or signed the correct players for that system, we did neither. Our CL win came from playing our players to their strengths. 

Now would be a good time to revamp the way we play completely, with a better pattern of attacking play we might actually start to score goals from our chances, hopefully. 

Edited April 9, 20233 yr by Victor90

16 minutes ago, just said:

Some players it's impossible to sign a back up that will come even remotely close to the quality and consistency of the player you are looking to "back up". 

I said at that time Drogba left that it would  take decades before we found another striker who was even close to his all round ability. 

Some players are virtually irreplaceable. When will we find a midfielder who scores like Lampard? When will we find a centre-half who can lead like JT? When will find a midfielder like Essien who can completely dominate the opposition midfield by sheer physical strength and power. For those of us who are old enough, I don't think we have ever found a true winger who can dribble and cross with both feet like Pat Nevin did. And that was 40 years ago!

Yes it will be impossible to find another Kante to backup Kante but when we can spend hundreds of millions on redundant attacking midfielders then we could've easily got another decent defensive mid. Putting all our eggs in the Kante basket was just poor planning.

16 minutes ago, coco said:

It's not down to Sarriball why our players don't take their chances 5 years later, we have loads of opportunities to score every game, a 20+ goal striker would love to play up front for us. Brentford has one, we need him next season.

The point Victor was making Coco, and with which I agree, is that, post Sarriball, it has taken us a long, long time to play at a consistent high tempo, move the ball forward QUICKLY and, crucially, be prepared to take attacking risks and commit players forwards in numbers ahead of the ball and get them in the opposition box. 

Lampard did it for a short period in his first spell, the downside was he couldn't balance the defensive side so it was a fail. But there is no doubt, we moved the ball forward a lot quicker. Possession based football that involves a slow build-up and generally goes nowhere is IMO the most boring football to watch. Regardless of results.

Edited April 9, 20233 yr by just

4 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

A mixture, I think Sarri came with a plan and did a relatively decent job here. It was a big task to get the team playing Sarri ball.

But we've been stuck with playing this style for a long time now, and our recruitment hasn't exactly helped the situation. Why do we keep signing players who aren't tailored for the system? Werner, as piss-poor as he was a times, we saw really good performances from him when we were counter-attacking (like the Champions League win). He was never going to thrive in games where we are playing the likes of Crystal Palace which are about 80% of our fixtures. 

He constantly wanted to run onto the ball and didn't want a pass at the touchline where there are around 2-3 players on him. He didn't have the skill set to play well that way, and I fear it's the same with Mudryk but I don't think he's as limited as Werner. All the more we seem to sign players who don't suit the system. So what we needed to do was either ditch the system or signed the correct players for that system, we did neither. Our CL win came from playing our players to their strengths. 

Now would be a good time to revamp the way we play completely, with a better pattern of attacking play we might actually start to score goals from our chances, hopefully. 

Blaming Sarri for how we play now is wrong imo. 

For starters 99% of our squad have never even met Sarri. None of his staff remained, our owner and board have been replaced. Their is literally no connection between Sarri and our current set up. 

9 minutes ago, just said:

The point Victor was making Coco, and with which I agree, is that, post Sarriball, it has taken us a long, long time to play at a consistent high tempo, move the ball forward QUICKLY and, crucially, be prepared to take attacking risks and commit players forwards in numbers ahead of the ball and get them in the opposition box. 

Lampard did it for a short period in his first spell, the downside was he couldn't balance the defensive side so it was a fail. But there is no doubt, we moved the ball forward a lot quicker. Possession based football that involves a slow build-up and generally goes nowhere is IMO the most boring football to watch. Regardless of results.

Just i remember your venom for Sarri, i cant really accept anything you have to say about him in good faith mate, a bit like dkw and Tuchel 🤪

4 minutes ago, coco said:

Blaming Sarri for how we play now is wrong imo. 

For starters 99% of our squad have never even met Sarri. None of his staff remained, our owner and board have been replaced. Their is literally no connection between Sarri and our current set up. 

I'm not completely blaming him. I think it could've actually worked if we had the correct recruitment. But given that we don't, I think we need to completely ditch the system. So that's not his fault really.

Just now, Victor90 said:

I'm not completely blaming him. I think it could've actually worked if we had the correct recruitment. But given that we don't, I think we need to completely ditch the system. So that's not his fault really.

All this started when Tuchel got sacked. Blame Todd.

20 minutes ago, coco said:

Just i remember your venom for Sarri, i cant really accept anything you have to say about him in good faith mate, a bit like dkw and Tuchel 🤪

You don't have to Coco. Just use your own memory and tell us in your opinion if it was fast, exciting, attacking based football or mostly slow and ponderous with a lot of over-playing at the back and in midfield.

Edited April 9, 20233 yr by just

36 minutes ago, coco said:

It's not down to Sarriball why our players don't take their chances 5 years later, we have loads of opportunities to score every game, a 20+ goal striker would love to play up front for us. Brentford has one, we need him next season.

Haven’t we tried the 20+ goal striker route by signing a €100 Lukaku and that didn’t work out? What we need next season is to have our all our attacking players chipping in with 10-15 goals. 
 
 

 

1 hour ago, Victor90 said:

Possible, but having to rely on one player goes to show we have massive problems regardless. 

My opinion is that we've been stuck and unable to ditch this slow possession-obsessed football that Sarri first integrated.

Our work rate isn't good enough anymore, and it could explain why we have so many injuries since we became a possession team since our players are not used to running at the opposition. If you look back at the days under Conte you'll notice a massive difference in our playstyle. 

But we've not helped the situation. We seem to recruit players that want to run onto the ball and not hold it, even though our system doesn't cater towards that. The Lukaku signing was a big indicator that we don't really know what we're doing, he was never going to thrive in a system like this, forget the fact he's extremely overrated. 

But because of the lack of workrate and team cohesion from our attacking and midfield players, we've been forced to always revert to a back 3 because we just can't seem to get going in the back 4. One thing I credited Potter for was trying to stick to a back 4, but even he had to go to a back 3 eventually because the results and performances just weren't good enough. 

The back 3 for me in its current state that involves using a LWB & RWB as creative outlets has to go, it needs to be binned and never revisited it. It worked very well last season but it was more a case of it being a freak season, every single player outperformed their expected output. This season we are seeing Arsenal & City using a revised version of the back 3 to devastating effects. Think City have scored 21 goals in the last 4 games, and Arsenal 13 in the last 4 before today. They are also doing it without using any fullback at all, but pushing 4- 5 attacking & creative forces into their first 11. Pep has even said Walker doesn’t have a place in his first team. Problem is we have brainlessly spent £60m+ on Cucurella, and still have Gusto to come. Would be hilarious if in the long term only 1 of our fullbacks is a permanent fixture in the first 11.

6 minutes ago, ducavis said:

Haven’t we tried the 20+ goal striker route by signing a €100 Lukaku and that didn’t work out? What we need next season is to have our all our attacking players chipping in with 10-15 goals. 

So we just give up on strikers from now on because of Lukaku ?

31 minutes ago, just said:

You don't have to Coco. Just use your own memory and tell us in your opinion if it was fast, exciting, attacking based football or mostly slow and ponderous with a lot of over-playing at the back and in midfield.

Your talking about our football five years ago, yes it was slow and ponderous no problem agreeing.

52 minutes ago, coco said:

All this started when Tuchel got sacked. Blame Todd.

You know if Potter actually didn't happen to be the worst manager we have ever had, maybe nobody would have the need to blame anyone... But as it stands, he took the job and was literally the worst we have had. If he had been a good manager things would have been a lot different. At least Todd and co. have the means to make things right in the summer, Potter will never be able to undo this mess.

8 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

You know if Potter actually didn't happen to be the worst manager we have ever had, maybe nobody would have the need to blame anyone... But as it stands, he took the job and was literally the worst we have had. If he had been a good manager things would have been a lot different. At least Todd and co. have the means to make things right in the summer, Potter will never be able to undo this mess.

Bloody hell Gol you are possessed by Potter 😄 He's gone now so relax, have a cuppa tea and throw some darts at your Potter posters on your walls.

3 hours ago, coco said:

It's not down to Sarriball why our players don't take their chances 5 years later, we have loads of opportunities to score every game, a 20+ goal striker would love to play up front for us. Brentford has one, we need him next season.

Good in theory coco, not so much if Toney is banned for 6 months though which has been rumoured.

 

We should also remember it is not just Todd but the Eggman, who we know to be heavily involved, that keep Making stupid calls.

One good transfer between them in window 1, their directors manage 2 in window 2. For 600mill that is atrocious, as is sacking TT when they did, sacking Potter when they did, and appointing Lamps to appease the fans/shift blame from their own worthless hides 

Edited April 9, 20233 yr by axman2526

3 hours ago, ducavis said:

Haven’t we tried the 20+ goal striker route by signing a €100 Lukaku and that didn’t work out? What we need next season is to have our all our attacking players chipping in with 10-15 goals. 

Not sure I agree. I think Man City is the only team that has won a PL that way and even they seem to be turning that route by signing Haaland. Every other team that has won the PL in the last decade has done so with at least one 20+ striker/forward.

11 hours ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

Not sure I agree. I think Man City is the only team that has won a PL that way and even they seem to be turning that route by signing Haaland. Every other team that has won the PL in the last decade has done so with at least one 20+ striker/forward.

Liverpool won with Firmino leading the line, this Arsenal team also has Jesus with 8 league goals. What these two teams had/have are high scoring wingers & midfielders. Martinelli is on 14, Saka on 12, and Odegaard on 10 goals. Salah scored 19, & Mane 18 league goals in their title winning season.

it’s easy to say we need a 20+ forward, the reality is there is a dearth of No 9 in football presently. You take out the oldies like Lewandowski, & Benzema, and Haaland, and you would struggle to come up with 5 top No 9s. 

This season was a write off. Why were people so concerned over results when we weren't good enough to ever get top 4 even under Tuchel. Nobody wants Europa league or conference league anyway, Potter should of been judged next season

17 hours ago, just said:

Victor, this paragraph here. Bravo. Total agreement. I have always said Sarriball took us backwards not forward.

I don't think the way we play right now is because sarri drilled them to play tippy tappy ball but sarri has impact through his signing. For a while, jorgi was our only sitting dm and there is only one way to play with jorgi.