On 02/06/2024 at 12:53, El regreso said:

This is precisely why he will struggle in the PL unless he’s playing for a team that doesn’t have to defend much which is only City maybe Arsenal. Some of our fans can’t take emotion out and the blue tinted glasses off to see he’s not a good defender at all. He’s a good attacker but defensively look at the goals yesterday.

Even in the first half yesterday that they dominated you could see him get pulled out of position multiple times. 

And some of those fans will still question why an experienced manager like Poch, who saw him train daily, chose to use him in forward areas instead of at LB...

If, in the supremely unlikely event, he starts at LB for us next season...we're one foot in the hole.

5 hours ago, venom2011 said:

And some of those fans will still question why an experienced manager like Poch, who saw him train daily, chose to use him in forward areas instead of at LB...

If, in the supremely unlikely event, he starts at LB for us next season...we're one foot in the hole.

 

On 02/06/2024 at 11:53, El regreso said:

This is precisely why he will struggle in the PL unless he’s playing for a team that doesn’t have to defend much which is only City maybe Arsenal. Some of our fans can’t take emotion out and the blue tinted glasses off to see he’s not a good defender at all. He’s a good attacker but defensively look at the goals yesterday.

Even in the first half yesterday that they dominated you could see him get pulled out of position multiple times. 

 

I will confess I couldn't be arsed to watch the CL Final. But agreed that makes sense now why he used him up front before the loan. Poch has his positives, especially nurturing kids, but imho I don't think he has it to cross the finishing line. That ruthlessness or aggression that the best tactical managers have.

Even when he got angry, he came across as soft...but the above answered ONE of the many reasons I was shouting "WHY" at the laptop/tablet during matches when poch baffled me.

 

8 hours ago, venom2011 said:

And some of those fans will still question why an experienced manager like Poch, who saw him train daily, chose to use him in forward areas instead of at LB...

 

Yeah, Poch defintely got all the positional stuff bang on.....or look at it another way, the manager who got his team to the CL final chose to pick him at left back.

Maatsen cocked up in the UCL final - he is a rubbish LB

Haaland cocked up 5 one on ones last season - he is a rubbish ST

Messi cocked up against chelsea in the UCL semi final in 2012 - he is the worst player of all time

John Terry cocked up in the UCL final many years ago - he was a rubbish CB

The hapless Djimi Traore once helped Liverpool win the UCL..... obviously the best Trarore to have ever lived.

One swallow doesnt make a summer....

9 hours ago, venom2011 said:

And some of those fans will still question why an experienced manager like Poch, who saw him train daily, chose to use him in forward areas instead of at LB...

If, in the supremely unlikely event, he starts at LB for us next season...we're one foot in the hole.

Are we just going to ignore the other 22 games he played for Dortmund at LB, of which he featured to get his team to a CL final in the first place. 

Its almost like certain people on this forum have been waiting for him to mess up to say 'told you he's not a LB'. If it takes a team of Real Madrid's calibre to do that then he's going to have a pretty good career ahead of him in spite of master tactician Poch. 

6 minutes ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

Are we just going to ignore the other 22 games he played for Dortmund at LB, of which he featured to get his team to a CL final in the first place. 

Its almost like certain people on this forum have been waiting for him to mess up to say 'told you he's not a LB'. If it takes a team of Real Madrid's calibre to do that then he's going to have a pretty good career ahead of him in spite of master tactician Poch. 

Okay sure, lets not ignore them. He was solid. A decent player for Dortmund in the Bundesliga, a league that in recent years has conned us into transfers of players who were tearing the place up, only to come and be nowhere near the physical and technical ability required for the prem. Pulisic, Werner and Havertz all looked great over there and simply didn't here. 

We've got a fairly modest release clause of £35m in Maatsens contract, which for a 22 year old who has just taken his team to a CL final and set the Bundesliga on fire, is surely one of the best deals on the market? Oh thats right, no one wants to pay it. 

I think Maatsen is a decent player and I also think it is a shame he didn't get more a chance to prove himself here. But just as you have said people were waiting to jump on him and highlight his failure, many are also too keen to jump on the club and decisions that they have made. He won't get a top English side interested in him and will end up in Serie A or the Bundesliga where he will continue to have a solid career but that doesn't mean we've made a mistake.

51 minutes ago, Niall1905 said:

Okay sure, lets not ignore them. He was solid. A decent player for Dortmund in the Bundesliga, a league that in recent years has conned us into transfers of players who were tearing the place up, only to come and be nowhere near the physical and technical ability required for the prem. Pulisic, Werner and Havertz all looked great over there and simply didn't here. 

We've got a fairly modest release clause of £35m in Maatsens contract, which for a 22 year old who has just taken his team to a CL final and set the Bundesliga on fire, is surely one of the best deals on the market? Oh thats right, no one wants to pay it. 

I think Maatsen is a decent player and I also think it is a shame he didn't get more a chance to prove himself here. But just as you have said people were waiting to jump on him and highlight his failure, many are also too keen to jump on the club and decisions that they have made. He won't get a top English side interested in him and will end up in Serie A or the Bundesliga where he will continue to have a solid career but that doesn't mean we've made a mistake.

Isn't he about to end up at Bayern according to reports? 

6 minutes ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

Isn't he about to end up at Bayern according to reports? 

Be surprised if he doesn't given the Kompany connection.

35 minutes ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

Isn't he about to end up at Bayern according to reports? 

Reports from who? Havent seen anything credible suggesting its happening. Although I also don't see how this wouldn't support the comment I made that he wont get a top prem move and that he'll end up in Serie A or Bundesliga

3 hours ago, dkw said:

Yeah, Poch defintely got all the positional stuff bang on.....or look at it another way, the manager who got his team to the CL final chose to pick him at left back.

There was tumbleweed in this thread when Maatsen was killing it for Dortmund. As soon as he makes a mistake people pile on to the lad.

59 minutes ago, Gordon Bennett said:

There was tumbleweed in this thread when Maatsen was killing it for Dortmund. As soon as he makes a mistake people pile on to the lad.

 

3 hours ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

Are we just going to ignore the other 22 games he played for Dortmund at LB, of which he featured to get his team to a CL final in the first place. 

Its almost like certain people on this forum have been waiting for him to mess up to say 'told you he's not a LB'. If it takes a team of Real Madrid's calibre to do that then he's going to have a pretty good career ahead of him in spite of master tactician Poch. 

Is amazing isnt it, just ignore that he made the position his own at a club that got to the CL final and had a major impact on the team. The desperation is embarrassing.

It’s the same with Sterling in my view. Fans take a set for or against a player and having done so find evidence to confirm their opinion. 

3 hours ago, Niall1905 said:

Reports from who? Havent seen anything credible suggesting its happening. Although I also don't see how this wouldn't support the comment I made that he wont get a top prem move and that he'll end up in Serie A or Bundesliga

the usual online sources, its not like clubs announce they're going after players. 

Is Bayern Munich supposed to be a bad move for a player these days? Who even needs a LB in the Prem atm other than Chelsea?

2 hours ago, ozboy said:

It’s the same with Sterling in my view. Fans take a set for or against a player and having done so find evidence to confirm their opinion. 

Yeah, confirmation bias. 

I wonder whether Maresca would use him if his move does not happen? Could he be his first choice left back?

5 hours ago, Niall1905 said:

Okay sure, lets not ignore them. He was solid. A decent player for Dortmund in the Bundesliga, a league that in recent years has conned us into transfers of players who were tearing the place up, only to come and be nowhere near the physical and technical ability required for the prem. Pulisic, Werner and Havertz all looked great over there and simply didn't here. 

We've got a fairly modest release clause of £35m in Maatsens contract, which for a 22 year old who has just taken his team to a CL final and set the Bundesliga on fire, is surely one of the best deals on the market? Oh thats right, no one wants to pay it. 

I think Maatsen is a decent player and I also think it is a shame he didn't get more a chance to prove himself here. But just as you have said people were waiting to jump on him and highlight his failure, many are also too keen to jump on the club and decisions that they have made. He won't get a top English side interested in him and will end up in Serie A or the Bundesliga where he will continue to have a solid career but that doesn't mean we've made a mistake.

Argument kind of falls down slightly when we consider that those 3 players all played a pretty big part in us winning the champions league....including all 3 playing in the final.

1 minute ago, nonotnowjim said:

Argument kind of falls down slightly when we consider that those 3 players all played a pretty big part in us winning the champions league....including all 3 playing in the final.

Oh - and Werner was a lovely boy....our best player since Fatty Foulkes

Personally, I would hope we can find a solid, more physically imposing left back than either Cucurella, (who I don't rate at all), or Maatsen.

27 minutes ago, just said:

Personally, I would hope we can find a solid, more physically imposing left back than either Cucurella, (who I don't rate at all), or Maatsen.

Agreed. 

That LB from Bologna, Riccardo Calafiori, just seems perfect. Tall, defensively strong and can play either LB or LCB. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Agreed. 

That LB from Bologna, Riccardo Calafiori, just seems perfect. Tall, defensively strong and can play either LB or LCB. 

 

 

Surely Juventus bound if anywhere

4 hours ago, axman2526 said:

I wonder whether Maresca would use him if his move does not happen? Could he be his first choice left back?

He seems to be at his best as attacking full back or wing back, I doubt he fits any of the roles Maresca wants his full backs to play. Another season of him as an emergency winger if he returns I reckon

4 minutes ago, AndyDowsleftflank said:

He seems to be at his best as attacking full back or wing back, I doubt he fits any of the roles Maresca wants his full backs to play. Another season of him as an emergency winger if he returns I reckon

Yeah could well be. Dortmund have gone back on a prior agreement for his transfer at 35mill and want to the price dropped to 25mill euros. Think either Kompany comes in for him or qe may struggle to sell.

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

Yeah could well be. Dortmund have gone back on a prior agreement for his transfer at 35mill and want to the price dropped to 25mill euros. Think either Kompany comes in for him or qe may struggle to sell.

Typical, isn’t it. We bought a gazillion players just when the market was at its hottest, and when we two years later need to sell to balance the books, there’s suddenly no money in football anymore. Not in Spain, not in Italy, not in Germany, not in the PL and even PSG seems to have sobered up

15 hours ago, Niall1905 said:

Okay sure, lets not ignore them. He was solid. A decent player for Dortmund in the Bundesliga, a league that in recent years has conned us into transfers of players who were tearing the place up, only to come and be nowhere near the physical and technical ability required for the prem. Pulisic, Werner and Havertz all looked great over there and simply didn't here. 

We've got a fairly modest release clause of £35m in Maatsens contract, which for a 22 year old who has just taken his team to a CL final and set the Bundesliga on fire, is surely one of the best deals on the market? Oh thats right, no one wants to pay it. 

I think Maatsen is a decent player and I also think it is a shame he didn't get more a chance to prove himself here. But just as you have said people were waiting to jump on him and highlight his failure, many are also too keen to jump on the club and decisions that they have made. He won't get a top English side interested in him and will end up in Serie A or the Bundesliga where he will continue to have a solid career but that doesn't mean we've made a mistake.

This is on the board though and not a true reflection of the players worth; everyone knows we need to sell as we have 3 LBs on our books. And in Maatsen’s case he has said he wants out of the club. No club is playing his release clause in those conditions. It’s the same reason no club is rushing to snap up Chalobah at £25m; Utd are reportedly keen but are saying the fee is too high which sounds ridiculous. Chuck the £50m fee we are demanding for Gallagher and the reluctance by Spurs to pay that fee (even though they paid £47m for Brennan Johnson from the Championship), and you can see a pattern developing. 

1 hour ago, ducavis said:

This is on the board though and not a true reflection of the players worth; everyone knows we need to sell as we have 3 LBs on our books. And in Maatsen’s case he has said he wants out of the club. No club is playing his release clause in those conditions. It’s the same reason no club is rushing to snap up Chalobah at £25m; Utd are reportedly keen but are saying the fee is too high which sounds ridiculous. Chuck the £50m fee we are demanding for Gallagher and the reluctance by Spurs to pay that fee (even though they paid £47m for Brennan Johnson from the Championship), and you can see a pattern developing. 

That’s the selling pressure but there can also buyer competition if there is more than one club in for maatsen.  I guess the difference to an auction is that if you meet the reserve you get the player. The release sets the maximum value the player is worth to the club. Under the release the club gets to choose whether to sell.