2 hours ago, Chris Gundleton said:

I'm on the fence with Poch, but I do think some on here are giving him some unnecessary stick.  Take for example Sanchez.  Don't all managers play their 2nd keeper in the cups?  By that token, Tuchel f***** up big time by playing Kepa in the final against Leicester as we all know Mandy saves the shot from Tielemans.  We should all be grateful that Poch has made the right decision that Petrovic is his number 1.

Also, that greedy f**** Sterling with the penalty, how is that on Poch.  I remember when we needed to beat Wigan to win the league with Carlo.  We were leading 1-0, get a penalty and Drogba had a massive row with Frank on the pitch as he wanted to take it (at that point we had no idea we'd win 8-0).  Frank took it and Drogba sulked the entire 1st half.  If that had been with Poch some on here would have said poor management - ridiculous!I

Poch needs to make more effort to bond with the fans but must be hard when a lot of them are giving him.criticism for some ridiculous stuff.  As I mentioned in earlier thread, a lot of you have forgotten that last year we couldn't score at all, I'm enjoying the fact that we now score and are able to come.back when things don't go well during matches.

I don't put much stock into what managers say after a game, you shouldn't air too much dirty laundry anyway. If you're going to bollock the players, don't let that be known you'll only start getting "dressing room fallout" headlines. 

Fully agree with this take Chris. The manager can't run onto the pitch in situations like this, it's up to the captain to sort situations like this out. I wasn't Sarri's biggest fan, but Azpilicueta let the team down in that final, where the f**k was he when Kepa was disobeying orders? JT himself even alluded to it being Azpi's fault. Gallagher should've been the one there to set this right. Now it's up to Poch to set it straight off the pitch, hopefully, this doesn't happen again and I doubt it given the reaction it's had. 

The cups are what is saving Ten Haag at United. I'm sure we all appreciate good cup runs but if we aren't winning them then they are almost always a smokescreen for bad performances in the league. We are 11th and this is being treated as customary nowadays even though we have spent in the region of 1 billion pounds on players the last couple of seasons, let that sink in.

One of Pochettino's problems is that he just comes across as unlikeable. He seems to be taking the fans for granted and I believe I am yet to see him even acknowledging the traveling supporters after away games. With his past he should be made a real effort to build a connection with supporters as early as possible but he didn't put in the effort and now he's paying the price for it.

Performances aren't helping either of course. I think I can remember one good performance since about October and that was away to Villa in the Cup last month. He's 100% been saved by overtime goals in key games but taking that and performances into account you would have to conclude its all entirely unsustainable.

 

24 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

I don't put much stock into what managers say after a game, you shouldn't air too much dirty laundry anyway. If you're going to bollock the players, don't let that be known you'll only start getting "dressing room fallout" headlines. 

Fully agree with this take Chris. The manager can't run onto the pitch in situations like this, it's up to the captain to sort situations like this out. I wasn't Sarri's biggest fan, but Azpilicueta let the team down in that final, where the f**k was he when Kepa was disobeying orders? JT himself even alluded to it being Azpi's fault. Gallagher should've been the one there to set this right. Now it's up to Poch to set it straight off the pitch, hopefully, this doesn't happen again and I doubt it given the reaction it's had. 

You're right, the manager can't run to the pitch and the captain should have told Sterling to F off. But, the coach has the power of calling Sterling to one side after the penalty kick and tell him off, he's got the power to sub him off, he can give him a bollocking at half time, but he chose to let him play for longer than necessary and he probably said sweet fa at half time as Sterling went on to have the cheek of taking that free kick. 

Also, something that really got to many of the fans around me was that Pochettino was nowhere to be seen. We could see the Leicester coaches in the technical area a lot of the time, Pochettino I counted three brief times.

48 minutes ago, Erik said:

The cups are what is saving Ten Haag at United. I'm sure we all appreciate good cup runs but if we aren't winning them then they are almost always a smokescreen for bad performances in the league. We are 11th and this is being treated as customary nowadays even though we have spent in the region of 1 billion pounds on players the last couple of seasons, let that sink in.

Really! i'd never have guessed that. 

6 minutes ago, Erik said:

The cups are what is saving Ten Haag at United. I'm sure we all appreciate good cup runs but if we aren't winning them then they are almost always a smokescreen for bad performances in the league. We are 11th and this is being treated as customary nowadays even though we have spent in the region of 1 billion pounds on players the last couple of seasons, let that sink in.

But if you buy 20 year old players what can you expect? This is exactly the same sh*te the media is spouting every day. They just look at the prices and completely dismiss the ages of the profile players we have. Palmer 20 is our Salah, Caicedo 22 is our Rodri, Petrovic 24 is our Alisson, Gusto 21 is our TAA, Jackson 22 is our Ollie Watkins. 

We paid for the future not for today. The hope is these boys are competing head to head in 2-3 years against the top players in the league.

Put Ancelotti at helm and he is 7-12th with this young squad depending on injuries and form. 

Let that sink in..yes. We need to adjust our expectations to where they should be. If the owners feel we can win everything or even make 4th with this situation they need to think again. 

 

23 minutes ago, RMH said:

Also, something that really got to many of the fans around me was that Pochettino was nowhere to be seen. We could see the Leicester coaches in the technical area a lot of the time, Pochettino I counted three brief times.

Perhaps if they'd stayed in their seats, and trusted their players to play without interfering, then they might have won ?

There have been plenty of studies of top sports teams that have concluded that over-control reduces the players ability to perform. It does look good on TV though to have a manager going berserk on the touchline, and it certainly appeals to the "passionate" fan. It's just not very effective though :-) 

33 minutes ago, Erik said:

The cups are what is saving Ten Haag at United. I'm sure we all appreciate good cup runs but if we aren't winning them then they are almost always a smokescreen for bad performances in the league. We are 11th and this is being treated as customary nowadays even though we have spent in the region of 1 billion pounds on players the last couple of seasons, let that sink in.

When was it ever different?

Mark Robbins allegedly saves Ferige's job as sub giving them a late winner against Forest, they go on to win and the Fergie dynasty takes off. When they came to the bridge we were singing, 'You're going down with West Ham' as Gareth Hall's scrappy goal earns us a hard fought 1-0 win at SB.

Utd had some players that lost their nerve like Brian McClair and Jim Leighton almost like Sterling and Sanchez yesterday.

Of course does not mean Poch should stay I would wait until season ends.

Not 1 billion pounds on the pitch, this maybe what our US owners have spent though we sold over £250 so at best Poch has £750 million worth of talent before injuries take their toll. 

 

I think you've missed my point. These are players with talent and value regardless of their age. Nobody made excuses for Haaland, Mbappe or Bellingham's ages when they were signed for ridiculous amounts of money. We have made serious errors in the recruitment department sure however these are still high quality players that the manager should be getting more out of and finishing mid-table with a couple of cup runs under your belt should not be the status quo.

3 minutes ago, Erik said:

I think you've missed my point. These are players with talent and value regardless of their age. Nobody made excuses for Haaland, Mbappe or Bellingham's ages when they were signed for ridiculous amounts of money. We have made serious errors in the recruitment department sure however these are still high quality players that the manager should be getting more out of and finishing mid-table with a couple of cup runs under your belt should not be the status quo.

That is not down to Pochettino yet that is down to the club management.

1 minute ago, strider6004 said:

That is not down to Pochettino yet that is down to the club management.

The club have given Pochettino a squad that is more than capable of finishing in the top 6. I don't know why we as fans are being forced to accept this idea that this is a mediocre mid table squad that needs 3 or 4 years to be challenging for top 4 just to give Poch more excuses. He's had nearly a whole season with no european football to try and gel this squad together and we still look like a team that have only just met each-other after a 5 minute kick about.

18 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Perhaps if they'd stayed in their seats, and trusted their players to play without interfering, then they might have won ?

There have been plenty of studies of top sports teams that have concluded that over-control reduces the players ability to perform. It does look good on TV though to have a manager going berserk on the touchline, and it certainly appeals to the "passionate" fan. It's just not very effective though 🙂

Where have I said that he has to go berserk? But getting up to set up to correct players' positions, or get up and let the players see you there when there are mistakes being committed, is not over-control, is it? 

Also, not sure what those studies you mention are, but certainly their results are smashed when you look at the level that Liverpool and City are performing, with two coaches that hardly sit down during their games. So yeah, let the authors know that they need to make a revision to their Materials and Methods of their studies.

27 minutes ago, Erik said:

I think you've missed my point. These are players with talent and value regardless of their age. Nobody made excuses for Haaland, Mbappe or Bellingham's ages when they were signed for ridiculous amounts of money. 

Because they were clearly ridiculously good players performing at the absolute top level before being signed for big money.

We've signed players with less than 50 career games in the Ukranian league an average winger in the dutch league,  Monaco's struggling pair of centre backs, a MLS keeper and picked up a few missing South American children for £20m each.

It's a complete different calibre of player we've brought in just because we've wasted huge amounts of money doesn't mean the squad is particularly talented or the manager has a lot to work with. 

 

Edited March 18, 20242 yr by Whats_The_Mata?

18 minutes ago, Whats_The_Mata? said:

Because they were clearly ridiculously good players performing at the absolute top level before being signed for big money.

We've signed players with less than 50 career games in the Ukranian league an average winger in the dutch league,  Monaco's struggling pair of centre backs, a MLS keeper and picked up a few missing South American children for £20m each.

It's a complete different calibre of player we've brought in just because we've wasted huge amounts of money doesn't mean the squad is particularly talented or the manager has a lot to work with. 

 

Good point. Haaland, Bellingham, Foden for example are players from "one in a million" category. That doesn't mean our boys can't become excepitonal players like it seems Palmer is. 

Time will tell. Time that media and fans don't think we have. That is up to owners. If they have balls and sense they don't buckle under outside pressure.

19 minutes ago, Whats_The_Mata? said:

Because they were clearly ridiculously good players performing at the absolute top level before being signed for big money.

We've signed players with less than 50 career games in the Ukranian league an average winger in the dutch league,  Monaco's struggling pair of centre backs, a MLS keeper and picked up a few missing South American children for £20m each.

It's a complete different calibre of player we've brought in just because we've wasted huge amounts of money doesn't mean the squad is particularly talented or the manager has a lot to work with. 

 

When PSG signed Mbappé for 180 million they also had Buffon in goal, Thiago Silva and Marquinhos in central defence, plus Dani Alves at full back, Verratti, Rabiot, Draxler and Paredes in midfield, and Neymar, Cavani and Di Maria for Mbappé to play alongside in attack.

Pretty sure Mbappé wouldn't have had the platform to excel on if they'd got rid of all that experience in one fell swoop and replaced it with a squad of talented, but inexperienced 20-23 year olds, lacking in game craft, and who also happened to be injury prone because as young athletes they hadn't yet developed the robustness and stamina that comes with experience. 

 

 

29 minutes ago, Whats_The_Mata? said:

Because they were clearly ridiculously good players performing at the absolute top level before being signed for big money.

We've signed players with less than 50 career games in the Ukranian league an average winger in the dutch league,  Monaco's struggling pair of centre backs, a MLS keeper and picked up a few missing South American children for £20m each.

It's a complete different calibre of player we've brought in just because we've wasted huge amounts of money doesn't mean the squad is particularly talented or the manager has a lot to work with. 

 

Name me three clubs that have bench options with better goal/assists contributions per 90 than Mudryk and Madueke. 

Jackson is 2 goal contributions shy from matching last season's goal contributions whilst playing in a significantly more difficult league. 

Cole Palmer will end the season with Lampard numbers. 

Gallagher is a tactical manager's wet dream.

Gusto has the best RB stats in the league, at 20 f**king years old. 

Petrovic has looked like an upgrade compared to a man who has been a GK in the prem for years. 

Caicedo and Enzo are 2 of South America's best central midfielders. 

 

The fact you continue to make this team look like it should be competing with Luton is why no one takes you seriously. We have a talented squad that is underperforming because of Poch's in game management. We are 18th in the league based on 2nd half performances which is a direct result of his passive and reactive management style.

ten Hag managed to f**king look better than him yesterday with his approach against Liverpool. Poch is an embarrasment. 

31 minutes ago, Whats_The_Mata? said:

Because they were clearly ridiculously good players performing at the absolute top level before being signed for big money.

We've signed players with less than 50 career games in the Ukranian league an average winger in the dutch league,  Monaco's struggling pair of centre backs, a MLS keeper and picked up a few missing South American children for £20m each.

It's a complete different calibre of player we've brought in just because we've wasted huge amounts of money doesn't mean the squad is particularly talented or the manager has a lot to work with. 

 

Give me a break.

Enzo - World cup winning XI 

Cucurella - Brighton player of the season

Caicedo - Another Brighton high flyer chased by Liverpool and Arsenal.

Sterling - 100+ premier league goals and 80+ International caps.

Fofana - One of the most highly touted premier league centre backs before his arrival, undoubtedly injury prone.

Nkunku - 36 Bundesliga goals in 2 seasons.

Palmer, Madueke, Jackson, Gusto we could go on and on. 

 

 

1 minute ago, Erik said:

Fofana - One of the most highly touted premier league centre backs before his arrival, undoubtedly injury prone.

Nkunku - 36 Bundesliga goals in 2 seasons.

 

I wasn't aware Poch slide tackled them both in training.

If you exclude Sterling and the injured cohort from that list how many good seasons did the rest of them have combined at a high level?

Sometimes I think we tend to forget that this team has been assembled in such a short space of time.

We have a talented group of players but a lot of them are in a new environment, new city and some a new country and have to adjust to teammates that are new themselves. There's no core group of players to join or a core management team. Everything is literally new apart from a handful of players that were here before them, they are not walking into a winning dressing room like teams before them.

While all this is happening we still have the expectations of them finishing top 4.

Poch should be doing better but this is not going to be an overnight thing and if there was ever a time for patience and getting through bad times surely this is it now?

Edited March 18, 20242 yr by Sheva

3 minutes ago, Whats_The_Mata? said:

I wasn't aware Poch slide tackled them both in training.

If you exclude Sterling and the injured cohort from that list how many good seasons did the rest of them have combined at a high level?

We've seen enough of Nkunku under Poch to know even if he was 100 percent fit, that he wouldn't be a difference maker let alone reach the heights at Leipzig. Disasi and Badiashille are more than good enough for a Premier league side aiming for the top 6. We have incredible depth, most of the south American kids you mentioned haven't even played this season.

3 minutes ago, Erik said:

We've seen enough of Nkunku under Poch to know even if he was 100 percent fit, that he wouldn't be a difference maker let alone reach the heights at Leipzig. Disasi and Badiashille are more than good enough for a Premier league side aiming for the top 6. We have incredible depth, most of the south American kids you mentioned haven't even played this season.

Someone who has clearly been paying zero attention to who has been in the treatment room and for how long ...

 

29 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Name me three clubs that have bench options with better goal/assists contributions per 90 than Mudryk and Madueke. 

Jackson is 2 goal contributions shy from matching last season's goal contributions whilst playing in a significantly more difficult league. 

Cole Palmer will end the season with Lampard numbers. 

Gallagher is a tactical manager's wet dream.

Gusto has the best RB stats in the league, at 20 f**king years old. 

Petrovic has looked like an upgrade compared to a man who has been a GK in the prem for years. 

Caicedo and Enzo are 2 of South America's best central midfielders. 

 

The fact you continue to make this team look like it should be competing with Luton is why no one takes you seriously. We have a talented squad that is underperforming because of Poch's in game management. We are 18th in the league based on 2nd half performances which is a direct result of his passive and reactive management style.

ten Hag managed to f**king look better than him yesterday with his approach against Liverpool. Poch is an embarrasment. 

I can't take you seriously any more ... that whole post is so full of holes I don't know where to start !

Such an obvious agenda, presumably because of the Tottenham connection, as for many others ... 

6 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Someone who has clearly been paying zero attention to who has been in the treatment room and for how long ...

 

Here we again. "Injuries have derailed our quest for the top 6, Pochettino would be challenging on every front were it not for our long injury list".

 

Injuries are a part of football. As if Colwill/Disasi/Badiashille aren't equally as good an option to an absent Fofana.

Edited March 18, 20242 yr by Erik

1 minute ago, Sexyfootball said:

I can't take you seriously any more ... that whole post is so full of holes I don't know where to start !

Such an obvious agenda, presumably because of the Tottenham connection, as for many others ... 

No, please start. I want to see where you're headed bar the laughing emoji response. 

Answer each one. 

7 minutes ago, Erik said:

Here we again. "Injuries have derailed our quest for the top 6, Pochettino would be challenging on every front were it not for our long injury list".

 

Injuries are a part of football. As if Colwill/Disasi/Badiashille aren't equally as good an option to an absent Fofana.

Colwill is 20 years old - a great prospect. he's going to have good games, and he's going to have bad games and make mistakes. 

Badiashile has not been the same since his injury, and both he and Colwill are currently injured anyway.

As for Disasi, I assume you haven't read much of his thread, because most people are convinced he is bang average.

Fofana as we all know has been out for the season.

In addition we've been without Reece James, and both Chilwell and Cucurella have missed alot of games at left back. 

Basically our starting defence is mostly unavailable ... and what team wouldn't be derailed by that ?

Rodri has missed 11 games for City in the last two seasons, and just with him out they've lost 5 of them. Is that because Pep is a sh*t manager ?

Any manager needs his best players available ... and sufficient depth that he can rest them occasionally without significantly impacting performance levels. Poch has had neither of those this season, so hence I remain on the fence about him.

Not exactly rocket science is it ?