On 19/03/2024 at 19:45, Sexyfootball said:

The Athletic had a reasonable attempt at trying to define what age footballers peak at, by position, based on the number of minutes being given to them at what age by their managers (with the sensible assumption that all managers will try to select their best team).

Well worth a read : 

https://archive.is/21r0X

Their summary table was as follows (basically the darker a colour the closer a player is to their peak age, with the darkest colour as the actual peak age) : 

 

I thought it would be instructive to map our current squad, plus our other BlueCo signings that are in the academy or on loan, against this table so that we can see how we measure up.

I couldn't quite match the colours they used in the standard Excel palette but close enough 🙂

The graphic does highlight visually how far off "peak" most of our squad probably are ... so surely expectations in the short term have to match that ? Totally unrealistic otherwise ... 

 

 

Considering the injuries on top of the inexperience, I'd say we're making very solid progress to have made the League Cup Final, be in the SF of the FA Cup, and still be in with a shout of 6th or 7th in the PL.

 

 

 

No one is suggesting the squad is at peak age. If they were Poch would even more obviously be doing poorly. The question is whether the squad at this age would do better with a different coach

nor can we compare either the coach or the squad based on last year because they are both different

And we won’t know whether it’s the players or the coach that is underperforming or both or neither until one or the other is changed. 
My opinion is the squad has more to offer than Poch has been able to get out of them. 

2 hours ago, ozboy said:

No one is suggesting the squad is at peak age. If they were Poch would even more obviously be doing poorly. The question is whether the squad at this age would do better with a different coach

nor can we compare either the coach or the squad based on last year because they are both different

And we won’t know whether it’s the players or the coach that is underperforming or both or neither until one or the other is changed. 
My opinion is the squad has more to offer than Poch has been able to get out of them. 

I respect your opinion and you might very well be right. However I don't see eye to eye with that. Under Roman my biggest problem was we changed managers like socks. Best sides in the world football now and in the past have operated under managerial continuum. 

We have never been one of them sides. We have never been considered peak Barca, peak Bayern or peak City. All those clubs have eclipsed us. 

For me, under new ownership, we should try and build under one coach. One season is not enough. Don't go for the quick fix, trust in progress. Especially now that we have such a young squad. I see our young players praising Poch here and there. I think he is a good coach for this side. For now at least. 

 

I think at this point in time, whether you are Poch in or Poch out, the fans need to do their part. 7th place, which at this point in time qualifies for a Europa league spot and the chance it will remain so is about 90%, is completely within our grasp if we win more matches than Brighton, Wolves, West Ham, and Newcastle. 

Europa League, a new medical staff, a highly valued set piece coach, summer reinforcements + players returning from injury. Things would definitely be looking up. 

Lets be fair... 

Id be sh*tting my pants if I was a united supporter right now given the speculation Southgate might be tempted to manage them after he fails with England in the summer. TBH I'd rather ETH in charge of England than Southgate. 

Basically, we could be going toe to toe this summer for the waistcoat. 

1 hour ago, olderschoolcfc said:

Lets be fair... 

Id be sh*tting my pants if I was a united supporter right now given the speculation Southgate might be tempted to manage them after he fails with England in the summer. TBH I'd rather ETH in charge of England than Southgate. 

Basically, we could be going toe to toe this summer for the waistcoat. 

8 hours ago, evissy said:

I respect your opinion and you might very well be right. However I don't see eye to eye with that. Under Roman my biggest problem was we changed managers like socks. Best sides in the world football now and in the past have operated under managerial continuum. 

We have never been one of them sides. We have never been considered peak Barca, peak Bayern or peak City. All those clubs have eclipsed us. 

For me, under new ownership, we should try and build under one coach. One season is not enough. Don't go for the quick fix, trust in progress. Especially now that we have such a young squad. I see our young players praising Poch here and there. I think he is a good coach for this side. For now at least. 

 

I am not trying to be a Roman apologist here but I've refuted these comments before about our knee jerk ownership under RA and how elite clubs persevere with their managers. I think its a bit of a fallacy tbh. The list below details the last 11 Real Madrid managers. Not many get more than two years there.

 

Bernd Schuster, my goodness, that's a name I haven't heard in a long time 

2 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

I am not trying to be a Roman apologist here but I've refuted these comments before about our knee jerk ownership under RA and how elite clubs persevere with their managers. I think its a bit of a fallacy tbh. The list below details the last 11 Real Madrid managers. Not many get more than two years there.

 

Bang on. I remember reading a while ago how changing manager frequently, statistically, lead to more success than keeping a manager for the long run.

Fergie and Pep being exceptions - both were bankrolled to some degree though, which has to be taken into consideration.

Edited March 27, 20242 yr by Gonoir Beniashile

We already had 3 managers in less than 2 years, even Roman couldn't keep up with that rate🤔, and what we have to show for it?

Speaking of Real, I have always admired Vincentte  del bosque. Not the only way to manage a team but he did it so well. 
 

https://www.flashscore.com/news/soccer-laliga-exclusive-vicente-del-bosque-explains-the-keys-to-his-success-with-real-madrid-and-spain/h2ATgHk4/

Edited March 27, 20242 yr by ozboy

2 hours ago, icecoolguy22 said:

We already had 3 managers in less than 2 years, even Roman couldn't keep up with that rate🤔, and what we have to show for it?

Problem isn't that we've changed manager per se, it's that we've not chosen the correct replacements. Why choose Potter if we want instant success... We knew he'd need time. Why choose Lampard at all? What's the strategy behind choosing Pochettino?

It just seems like a scattergun decision making process with zero thought behind it.

4 hours ago, ozboy said:

Speaking of Real, I have always admired Vincentte  del bosque. Not the only way to manage a team but he did it so well. 
 

https://www.flashscore.com/news/soccer-laliga-exclusive-vicente-del-bosque-explains-the-keys-to-his-success-with-real-madrid-and-spain/h2ATgHk4/

It won't translate to our team. We basically need a manager who is happy to work with young and raw player. 

16 hours ago, evissy said:

I respect your opinion and you might very well be right. However I don't see eye to eye with that. Under Roman my biggest problem was we changed managers like socks. Best sides in the world football now and in the past have operated under managerial continuum. 

We have never been one of them sides. We have never been considered peak Barca, peak Bayern or peak City. All those clubs have eclipsed us. 

For me, under new ownership, we should try and build under one coach. One season is not enough. Don't go for the quick fix, trust in progress. Especially now that we have such a young squad. I see our young players praising Poch here and there. I think he is a good coach for this side. For now at least. 

 

Honestly you can change manager every season, it doesn't matter. What matter for our current situation is that we need a manager who is willing to work with young player. This is by far the most important criteria. Not many proven manager is willing to do this. Managers are not stupid. Every single manager knows tactic, jdp, system or whatever stuff people like to talk about are nonsense compare to player quality. 

 

48 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Honestly you can change manager every season, it doesn't matter. What matter for our current situation is that we need a manager who is willing to work with young player. This is by far the most important criteria. Not many proven manager is willing to do this. Managers are not stupid. Every single manager knows tactic, jdp, system or whatever stuff people like to talk about are nonsense compare to player quality. 

 

I think this is sort of true, but not the whole truth, otherwise you wouldn't need a manager at all. To an extent I think of the manager as the 12th player and non playing captain and as such the manager quality matters just like it matters for any other player. Some players are dropped from the team every season and new ones bought in every season.  And as lots of people have noted the average tenure of a manager is less than the average tenure of a player.

Leadership and management  do make a difference. History proves it

15 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

I am not trying to be a Roman apologist here but I've refuted these comments before about our knee jerk ownership under RA and how elite clubs persevere with their managers. I think its a bit of a fallacy tbh. The list below details the last 11 Real Madrid managers. Not many get more than two years there.

 

It was amusing during Romans time how pundits reckoned our chaotic management and squads was never gonna work, as we continued to win every trophy available. 

 

1 minute ago, Sconnie Blue said:

 

That's a terrible post, he's NEVER experienced this....other than the one other season he has experienced this in 😅

That Pys bloke is a complete moron.

 

4 hours ago, yaz said:

 

 

11 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

 

There is only one answer....

Of course, Eva being of the Roman era, there is more chance of Clearlake employing Dr.Harold Shipman!

On 27/03/2024 at 23:19, Valerie said:

Bernd Schuster, my goodness, that's a name I haven't heard in a long time 

My god! My mother in law calls him “Chuster”, like half the Spanish population 😂

21 hours ago, dkw said:

It was amusing during Romans time how pundits reckoned our chaotic management and squads was never gonna work, as we continued to win every trophy available. 

We didn't now did we? City is basically doing what we should have done.

17 minutes ago, evissy said:

We didn't now did we? City is basically doing what we should have done.

It somehow fell apart in Mourinho second spell even though we won. We sold salah and de bruyne and what’s his name the talent spotter who is now running Saudi football left. 

I don’t think we could have ever done what city has, maybe if Ancelotti had stayed it might be different,but  Mourinho had to go the first time. 

On 28/03/2024 at 12:19, Gonoir Beniashile said:

Problem isn't that we've changed manager per se, it's that we've not chosen the correct replacements. Why choose Potter if we want instant success... We knew he'd need time. Why choose Lampard at all? What's the strategy behind choosing Pochettino?

It just seems like a scattergun decision making process with zero thought behind it.

Very true, which goes back to who's making these critical decisions? These decisions does a manager no favour, I wouldn't be surprised if the next guy struggles too

27 minutes ago, icecoolguy22 said:

Very true, which goes back to who's making these critical decisions? These decisions does a manager no favour, I wouldn't be surprised if the next guy struggles too

Yes, because Clearlake ripped out a winning structure and then spent a billion on a bunch of teenage cripples. Going from Roman to Clearlake must be one of the biggest downgrades in history.