Poch In or Out? The Mega-thread Merged

[the special one]

9 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

Playing devil's advocate here, and not saying that I want Poch to go, but if he does end up being removed is there a case for......

Conte to come in as a defibrillator manager. We know he will ultimately balls it up because of his ego and mouth but.

• He would make these players as fit as can be.
• He can implement a structure.
• He can get results
• He wants more money for players which this lot seem to have no problem in making available. 
• He would ultimately shoot his mouth off and sabotage us, so would always only be a short term.

I don't particularly like the guy but i do wonder if we needed CPR on this corpse of a team and get us back to life and within reaching distance of becoming a consistent team, does he come into the argument? 

The thing about Conte returning is we already have the players to play 3-4-3/3-5-2 - Mudryk at wing back? 🤣

[icecoolguy22]

Do I think Conte is  the type of manager we need? Yes, but Unless Boehly overturns our recruitment model, Conte will not even be talking with us. He's the proven winner, but he got no time and patience, will call out the owners straight away if he doesn't get his way. He won't give a cent about those wonder kids, expect half of them to be on loan. If Tuchel is hard to work with, don't even interview Conte. He will get out results with his back 3 ( or 5), so expect those fans demanding entertainment to turn on him after a couple of scoreless games.

 

[LongtimerLurker]

Pochettino is a scapegoat I will stand by this, like Potter he has been set up to fail by the incompetence around him as have the players.

In my opinion he should see out his contract (2 seasons) unless it gets untenable. After one season he will be well placed to evaluate the squad and move on those not good enough. Followed by a recruitment drive to sign experienced players to compliment the younger talent in the squad. Similar to Lampard's second season.

Then if in his second season we see enough to continue with him then we give another 2 year extension or we look for the manager who takes the team to the next level.

I think the general consensus is to back Poch, there will always be a minority that will want him out because they never gave him a chance in the first place due to his previous affiliation. 
However, surely you have to take the positives with the negatives. It's not like we haven't experienced some thrilling games under Pochettino.

In the games where we were clinical these were exciting games, back and forth against the best teams and coaches in the land. Before Pochettino we hadn't score against City since Porto that was at least 6 games straight. Yet he had us score 4 in 90 minutes (with this unbalanced squad).

In the games where we don't take our chances suddenly all the good moments are forgotten and Pochettino is a fraud.

Is he faultless? Definitely not, he's not got everything right and I think he probably knows he can improve too. But the best part about this project currently aside from Cole Palmer at this moment in time is Pochettino and if you can't see that then the owners are doing a mighty good job of hiding from responsibility. 
 

[WhiteWall]

1 hour ago, LongtimerLurker said:

Pochettino is a scapegoat I will stand by this, like Potter he has been set up to fail by the incompetence around him as have the players.

In my opinion he should see out his contract (2 seasons) unless it gets untenable. After one season he will be well placed to evaluate the squad and move on those not good enough. Followed by a recruitment drive to sign experienced players to compliment the younger talent in the squad. Similar to Lampard's second season.

Then if in his second season we see enough to continue with him then we give another 2 year extension or we look for the manager who takes the team to the next level.

I think the general consensus is to back Poch, there will always be a minority that will want him out because they never gave him a chance in the first place due to his previous affiliation. 
However, surely you have to take the positives with the negatives. It's not like we haven't experienced some thrilling games under Pochettino.

In the games where we were clinical these were exciting games, back and forth against the best teams and coaches in the land. Before Pochettino we hadn't score against City since Porto that was at least 6 games straight. Yet he had us score 4 in 90 minutes (with this unbalanced squad).

In the games where we don't take our chances suddenly all the good moments are forgotten and Pochettino is a fraud.

Is he faultless? Definitely not, he's not got everything right and I think he probably knows he can improve too. But the best part about this project currently aside from Cole Palmer at this moment in time is Pochettino and if you can't see that then the owners are doing a mighty good job of hiding from responsibility. 
 

Hi mate, i think it is rare that I disagree with your posts, as i think many of the reasoned arguments you make do, generally, make a lot of sense. But i confess i am struggling here and must disagree with some the comments.

The questionable underlying economic strategy of the club and whether this effectively sets up all managers to fail, is a valid question for discussion but probably should be held back for another post.

With regards our positive games, these have only come against teams that attack us and play an expansive game. Even in these situations there have been very few successful final winning results. Even Spurs was more about their implosion and our complete confusion as to how to overcome a team that stood on the half way line.

For me a number of the players are over priced and over hyped but could probably have flourished amongst some seasoned professionals but that is not the route that we went.

However, whilst i still think that Poch should retain his job, this is more because of the fact it makes us even more of a laughing stock by ditching another manager. Personally i cannot see a single shred of a system, or a pattern or style to our play. If we take Arteta's team that he put together, these were often made to look fragile and were beaten easily in a number of matches. But they had a pattern and a style that they stuck to and they developed, incrementally into a cohesive unit. Emery's Villa were mocked at the beginning because of their dangerously high line. But they're all bloody fit and work so hard for each other, so it works. We are in December and i am still not sure we even have an identity or style that we can say we are workign towards. 

I understood that Poch's main attributes were his organisational skills based around a strong fitness ethic. I am struggling to see any organisation or any real signs of a team spirit forming, more a collection of individuals haphazardly doing their own things without any real structure.

I think the below posted today is generally pretty good and to me does illustrate the lack of system.

 

 

[ozboy]

I think it would be far better to take the media abuse and sack poch and put in someone decent. As soon as we look like a team the abuse will stop. Sticking with poch will make the ridicule continue.

Haven't heard any comment about Lee Carsley won Euro U21 with England, makes me think he'd work well with young players. We don't need a big name as manager we just need a manager that can make the the team play like a team. Unai Emery, Ange Postecoglou, Lee Carsley have all won something.

Edited December 11, 2023 by ozboy

[Victor90]

5 minutes ago, ozboy said:

I think it would be far better to take the media abuse and sack poch and put in someone decent. As soon as we look like a team the abuse will stop. Sticking with poch will make the ridicule continue.

Haven't heard any comment about Lee Carsley won Euro U21 with England, makes me think he'd work well with young players. We don't need a big name as manager we just need a manager that can make the the team play like a team. Unai Emery, Ange Postecoglou, Lee Carsley have all won something.

You're saying that like it's the default alternative, who is this someone decent exactly? There's a high chance it gets much worse if we replace him then that less humiliation that you're seeking becomes even worse. 

A bloke who's won an U21 tournament is not equivalent to a PL job, hiring someone like that would make us even more of a laughing stock, and we've got no chance of punting Emery, why on earth would he want to come here? 

I think every single manager who comes here is going to have a very rough patch at Chelsea, but the fans won't give that manager the patience to ride it out.

[WhiteWall]

Perhaps another route would be to identify a National manager and lock them down for when their contract expires. That then buys you time to enter the market and purchase players that meet the style of play the new manager would want to implement.  By identifying a National team manager it would take away any hype about tapping up.

Let's just Say we went for Scaloni, and I'm not sure if the timing would work, he could continue in his role whilst we see out Pochettino's contract. Of course we would have to keep it quiet which this club is patently unable to do.

We could work with him over time to ensure we get the right personnel that fit his style.

I think Man City did something similar with Guardiola.  Not sure if it could be implemented here though.

[ozboy]

9 hours ago, Victor90 said:

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by ozboy

[ozboy]

8 hours ago, Victor90 said:

 

A bloke who's won an U21 tournament is not equivalent to a PL job, hiring someone like that would make us even more of a laughing stock, and we've got no chance of punting Emery, why on earth would he want to come here? 

I

That's exactly the kind of comment that was made about Postecoglou (he's only coached Celtic, thats not a real league, he's only coached in Japan, he's only coached in Australia). There is this kind of elitist attitude about the premier league that only coaches who have already coached are good enough. Anyhow I don't really know whether Carsley would be any good. And the reports are he maybe in line to get the England job in a while. I did think Postecoglou had the track record to suggest he'd be a success. Still the season is still not half over. Plenty of time for him to fall flat on his face.

I also think a coach with modern ideas that the players can work with might produce a better team than what we are seeing now. It should be about the players not the coach. When you get a big name coach in the story is about the coach and not the players. We want a coach who lets his team do the talking.



 

[evissy]

As long as we don't know the clubs plan our words are basically our feelings. If they'd tell what the Long term plan is it would be easier to accept things.

[BedfordBlue]

He needs at least until the end of the season. I can’t see any other manager being able to get this squad quickly to being a top 4 team.

[El regreso]

No reputable manager would touch use unless we are giving them Graham Potter like contract. They know all they have to do is sign and they get a massive pay day.

[Gol15]

I don't think he should be sacked but he can't hide forever either. Fact is he's a poor defensive coach and he'll run out of excuses at some point. Saying that we lack height is laughable.

[Zola]

On 14/12/2023 at 13:25, Gol15 said:

I don't think he should be sacked but he can't hide forever either. Fact is he's a poor defensive coach and he'll run out of excuses at some point. Saying that we lack height is laughable.

We lack height, bite, fight, might etc.

[Gordon Bennett]

Massive slap on the back for Poch here. He might have finished 2nd in Ligue Une with PSG and Messi, Neymar, Mbappe up front but he's got us a 2-0 win against a bloody good Sheffield Utd team. No wonder those that bayed for Potters blood rate Poch so highly. I'm starting to see it now. 

[19seventyone]

Some of the comments on this thread are mental. He will be given till at least 10 games into next season before any consideration into sacking him. And rightly so.

People are forgetting the mess he inherited. It’s going to take a bit of time. It’s really that simple. 
 

 

[Mod]

It's the time for that poll!

I've always said since Tuchel started dropping off that the problem is deeper than the manager, but it must be making a difference at the moment! We are shocking! Honestly worse than Potter!

(Will probably merge this with the main thread once the polling is done)

[Zeta]

He should have gone months ago.

[Dubair]

On the fence. Problem goes deeper than the manager and the lack of available candidates might sway me towards giving him till the end of the season but also 11th place is disgraceful.

[Remodez]

I don't like the performances as much as anyone else but some perspective is needed. We are in a cup final, could potentially be in another cup final and still possible to finish 7th for a spot in Europe. 

I've always said we should revaluate come the end of the season. sacking Poch at this stage doesn't benefit anybody.

 

[Sconnie Blue]

End of the season for me, but a separate argument is do you trust the directors to bring in the right man? 

[Zeta]

I wouldn't trust them to change a lightbulb.

[Mod]

They'd sell the lightbulb and just sit in the dark!

[Drogba1]

I don't give us a chance in that cup final under Poch, the last game Liverpool had 28 shots to just 4 for us.

 

Not that's we'd win under a new manager neccessarily, but we've got no chance the way we're playing right now

[Zeta]

I think they'd more likely spend £100 on a bunch of new fancy lightbulbs with lots of features, but which are lacking the main feature of lighting a room.