For me, Poch is more bearable than Potter, at least he got us points ( not a lot) against the likes of City, Liverpool, Arsenal. At least he showed when we get it right, we could be a decent team. Against lower teams ( United included), he's been useless, that's the price we pay for not having a striker and no real contributors for goals in other parts of the field. Sack him now or soon will just prove again the so called project is nothing but a get rich quick scheme, if fails reboot it and do more of the same. Boehly could either let Poch ride out the rest of the season ( we aren't going to get relegated thanks to the promoted teams), or spend another 100M buying what Poch demands. Any good manager or the next big thing will stay away from Chelsea, it's a mad house despite a decent pay cheque, and potentially ruins managing career. Has Potter or Lampard got any decent job offers yet?

13 hours ago, Drogba1 said:

Arsenal's squad vs Brentford

Raya - 28 

White - 26

Saliba - 22

Gabriel - 25

Zinchenko - 26

Rice - 24

Havertz - 24

Odegaard - 24

Saka - 22

Martinelli - 22

Jesus - 26

 

Only 5 players that are 25 and over, nobody over 30

 

Chelsea's squad vs Everton

 

Sanchez - 26

James - 23

Disasi - 25

Badiashile - 22

Cucurella - 25

Enzo - 22

Caicedo - 22

Murdyk - 22

Gallagher - 23

Palmer - 21

Broja - 22

 

So that's 3 players 25 and over. Sterling usually starts, which makes it 4. Our squad is only slightly younger than Arsenal's, yet they're in 2nd and we're 11th.

 

I don't think age is a good enough excuse to justify Poch's tenure. 

But the quality of the individuals concerned definitely is.

13 hours ago, El regreso said:

Sacking Poch won’t make a damm bit of difference until the players up their game. Give him his two years and like I keep repeating like a broken record adjust your expectations we are a 10-8th place TEAM now at best. Individually we have good players but together they are no where near what they should be now.

We are a 12th - 15th team at best on form over the last 12 months. Individually we have expensive players that has been deemed to equate to potential. Therefore we hope that we have good Individual players. Many of us remain unconvinced 

13 hours ago, JM7 said:

He’s not even had a full squad to work with. 

But that is contrary to all comments coming out of the club at the beginning, where he had to trim his bloated squad. We couldn’t even get all of the players out on loan hence why a totally unproven kid in Wahington is regularly on the bench. He has had a full squad. Injuries have impacted us as they have for numerous other clubs. The difference is that due to the intentional policy of this recruitment management team under the remit of the ownership, as soon as any of the first team players are injured there is immediately no depth to call upon. Our bench is ridiculous but these are second string players on the bench, not fourth string last reserve players.

I have defended and supported poch but he is a dead man walking. In the end of the day it is about the result. Yes injury is a big factor. I understand losing Nkunku, chuku, Chilwell and now James has make it very difficult for poch to run the offense that he want but clearly he hasn't met the expectation for Chelsea manager. 

Who should we hire? I don't think It is that important. Let's say the new manager comes in and say we need a new attacker

I can imagine our board giving him another wonderkid. 😂😂😂

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 20231 yr by Bob stark

12 hours ago, Luca Vialli said:

It's still far too early to sack him. At the bare minimum we owe him the chance to get the likes of Fofana, Nkunku and Lavia in the first team. Ideally we should give him the chance to add some experience during the January transfer window.

It felt like we were making progress in the first eight or so games, I'm not sure why it's gone so badly sour in the last four.

We bought an injury prone Fofana and lo and behold he has spent his whole time here injured. Nkunku was out for a long spell at RBL and then immediately got injured here and has already lost almost half a season. Lavia played part of a season in a relegated Southampton side before getting injured here in training. Never kicked a ball for us.

Thinking these three players will help to turn us around is hopeful at best. I think more likely is that these players will be injured again within a month of two as the number and intensity of the games increases. Add James to that again. He'll break down again, certain of it.

12 hours ago, El regreso said:

You can expect this cycle every 6 months at Chelsea fans knee jerk reaction is to sack the manager start over again then when that manager fails do it all over again while other clubs at the top remain stable.

 

Of course. Anybody who had dropped 1bn and were staring down the barrell of another 150m January window whilst the world looks on mocking, would surely get starting to feel hot under the collar 

12 hours ago, Whats_The_Mata? said:

Sounds incredulous but the squad needs 6 or 7 signings in January and just as many outgoings primarily consisting of young players we've signed that will never be good enough.

Not much faith of it happening at best I think we'll move Broja and Madueke on but not sure we'll get the quality in.  Hopefully no more young players.

I think I  order to wriggle our way out of the FFP snookers they have got us into we might have no option but to move on some of the "untouchables". I can easily see a scenario that sees both James and possibly Colwill leaving to help fund the surgery that is being mooted.

People calling out the owners for being clowns, the manager for not being elite and the players for being sh*t, but do we really want this recruitment team with more money in their hands?

Every decision we seem to be making ends being completely contrary to previous decisions and there has been no option than to do this. I agree with everything that you have said here, but we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the decisions we are now making is a direct confirmation of the appalling running of this club to date.

12 hours ago, JJ8 said:

The thing is that no one can say for sure that Nkunku will be not the same flopp as previous attackers. Its the same for Lavia too.

Even if he is good enough, what about midfield, defence?

It's a Chelsea-ism. Maybe other clubs too. Non playing players gain mythical status. Our defence will be fine when we retire Silva and get Fofana back, who has play what a third of a season for us. In fact I am not sure if he has played a season of football in 4 years.

I think a huge issue in our current situation is a complete lack of competition for places, we basically have no squad, just the starting 11,  then youth players. Enzo performs average, he still gets on the teamsheet next week, and he knows it.  Blame that on injuries and to a small degree you are right, but honestly its bigger than that. There is no seasoned midfielders to challenge, even if all are fit, just unproven youth. I dont think thats poch's fault, i dont believe he had much say in the transfers. But i certainly wont argue with the fact poch is not getting the best out of this group. I think its inevitable he doesnt see the season. How can he if we continue with this form. At this point i'd eat my words and welcome mourinho back.

Playing devil's advocate here, and not saying that I want Poch to go, but if he does end up being removed is there a case for......

Conte to come in as a defibrillator manager. We know he will ultimately balls it up because of his ego and mouth but.

• He would make these players as fit as can be.
• He can implement a structure.
• He can get results
• He wants more money for players which this lot seem to have no problem in making available. 
• He would ultimately shoot his mouth off and sabotage us, so would always only be a short term.

I don't particularly like the guy but i do wonder if we needed CPR on this corpse of a team and get us back to life and within reaching distance of becoming a consistent team, does he come into the argument? 

10 hours ago, Victor90 said:

The manager can never be completely excused, but I find it hard to believe he's the main culprit.

Keep in mind we've got one of the worst distance covered in the league, our players are not working as hard as other teams so I'm not sure I agree with that point. 

Exceptional effort, besides Gallagher who is a player I criticise a lot due to his poor quality is probably the only player who works his socks off in that team every game. And our attitude is piss poor, we drop our heads as soon as it's not going our way far too often. 

This issue stems directly from the Poch's approach. The player possesses significant potential, and it's up to the manager to guide and elevate the player to the next level. Given the player's limited experience, it falls on the manager to determine the right combination of strategies. Historically, Chelsea has focused on counter-attacking, but their current strategy appears to be a lackluster attempt at high pressing.

We changed the entire squad

All the new guys are young and inexperienced

We have a ton of injuries

If none of those 3 weren't true I'd think about it. 

I hope there is a project and we are holding onto it. Angry fans can't derail that hopefully.

I had a completely open mind at the hiring and was impressed in pre season, but from the first real game the doubts crept in. Not going to go through it all again.

I really liked Conte, he was the first manager to change and successfully change Mourinho's system. He worked miracles with players like Victor Moses and was pretty much the first manager in England  I can really  recall to show how wing backs worked. However I don't think he is the right manager at this time for this squad. Not even sure why not. But you can bet that if was we would be playing Maatsen at wing back.

Mourinho for a third time? I don't think so and its not the style of play that we want anyway.

What about Lee Carsley?

39 minutes ago, evissy said:

We changed the entire squad

All the new guys are young and inexperienced

We have a ton of injuries

If none of those 3 weren't true I'd think about it. 

I hope there is a project and we are holding onto it. Angry fans can't derail that hopefully.

You are correct. Hilarious that people think yet another manager might work wonders with this lot under the current organizational structure and conditions. 

We are f**ked in regards to FFP, meaning we will have to make due with the current squad unless we sell our homegrown players for a quick pound to have them be replaced by a player we for certain will have to over pay for with no certainties of success. 

We should all pray for a season of not getting relegated and that the latent talent this squad possesses blooms. If that doesn't happen we will drift along in the lower mid-table for the forseeable future. 

Edited December 11, 20231 yr by Cfc91

If we buy like we bought I don't think we were going to win the league or make the CL right away. I don't understand how hard it is to fathom.

If you listen to pundits you are well mistaken. They are us. They are fans or just repeating what we were under Roman. They want to sell their shows. 

Pochettino says two things. The other narrative is for the players, the other for the fans. 

For players he says: we need to win as we are Chelsea! He is trying to instill winning habits to players that are extremely motivated by the fact they are in a winning club 

For fans he says: we need time and patience as it is impossible to win with these young inexperienced players. 

It is not easy to do so but I think Pochettino is doing fairly well with that also.

We really have wasted such a terrible amount of money on below average players. We lack muscle and grit and our finishing is absolutely embarrassing.

Utterly depressing that Sterling is our brightest and only half decent looking player.

Not convinced Poch will get us fighting fit. Not sure who can to be honest.

What a waste of money. 

Edited December 11, 20231 yr by Zola

2 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

Playing devil's advocate here, and not saying that I want Poch to go, but if he does end up being removed is there a case for......

Conte to come in as a defibrillator manager. We know he will ultimately balls it up because of his ego and mouth but.

• He would make these players as fit as can be.
• He can implement a structure.
• He can get results
• He wants more money for players which this lot seem to have no problem in making available. 
• He would ultimately shoot his mouth off and sabotage us, so would always only be a short term.

I don't particularly like the guy but i do wonder if we needed CPR on this corpse of a team and get us back to life and within reaching distance of becoming a consistent team, does he come into the argument? 

Sorry mate, this post is like asking Satan to run the club! 🙂 I never want to see the man child back at CFC other than in a capacity of visiting manager. Poch needs the season as a bare minimum and we need to sign some experience. 

I’m willing to give him more time despite him looking somewhat of a dead man walking , at least another 6 months barring a genuine risk of relegation which is incredibly unlikely. 

I think he has a somewhat decent Cv to fall back on, there’s no obvious replacement and the fact that potter/Lampard couldn’t get anything out of this squad makes me think there’s no quick fix.

id thought he was unlucky in a lot of games earlier in the season but to be honest since the Brentford game it’s been fairly awful. Lots of questions of how he has the team set up and selections. 

 

No.

I think we need to sign somebody of the ilk of Messi, Cantona, Ronaldo or Haaland...

We need a BIG LIFT and getting a big name in the dressing room, who can score, might do the trick...

So check book out £150-£200m  - go for it Todd.

1 hour ago, olderschoolcfc said:

Sorry mate, this post is like asking Satan to run the club! 🙂 I never want to see the man child back at CFC other than in a capacity of visiting manager. Poch needs the season as a bare minimum and we need to sign some experience. 

I think that's a pretty fair assessment but there must be a grudging acceptance that he is able to get the players considerable fitter and can organise the side. He did it for us and to a point for Spurs. I do agree with you that he is toxic and I am certainly not advocating us getting him in. But I think it's a reasonable point for discussion. I tend to lean on the same side as you but I also think there remains a lot of misguided faith here currently.

I don't want us changing the manager constantly and people will cite the "tyranny" we endured in the Roman age, but the major difference Roman changed manager when we slipped off the top of the pile. We are changing managers now with no discernible change.

Like I say, I don't want Poch out, but I am going to say that I am really disappointed that his reputation and his pressers have proven to be a sham and I still can see no pattern, no style, no direction at all.

1 hour ago, Bebe1980 said:

No.

I think we need to sign somebody of the ilk of Messi, Cantona, Ronaldo or Haaland...

We need a BIG LIFT and getting a big name in the dressing room, who can score, might do the trick...

So check book out £150-£200m  - go for it Todd.

He'd have had about 5 or 6 of them if his brain was not under his feet.

1 hour ago, WhiteWall said:

I think that's a pretty fair assessment but there must be a grudging acceptance that he is able to get the players considerable fitter and can organise the side. He did it for us and to a point for Spurs. I do agree with you that he is toxic and I am certainly not advocating us getting him in. But I think it's a reasonable point for discussion. I tend to lean on the same side as you but I also think there remains a lot of misguided faith here currently.

I don't want us changing the manager constantly and people will cite the "tyranny" we endured in the Roman age, but the major difference Roman changed manager when we slipped off the top of the pile. We are changing managers now with no discernible change.

Like I say, I don't want Poch out, but I am going to say that I am really disappointed that his reputation and his pressers have proven to be a sham and I still can see no pattern, no style, no direction at all.

All valid points, but not sure fitness can be dramatically improved mid season. Hence giving poch until the end and allowing time to get injured players back to work under him being my take on it. I think even if we did want to bring him in, would he want to come, he doesn't like inexperienced players and we have a squad full of them. It's up to poch and the players to turn this around. 

regarding patterns of play and style, think we need a leader or two to emerge on the pitch for us and hence why I back Gallagher, think he is motivated to play for the shirt but our performances are a right mixed bag until now and I share the frustration. I think the closeness of the league is also a massive factor. Luton nearly took a point from city yesterday and a flying Newcastle have been derailed. anyone putting money on Fulham to score five yesterday must be a millionaire today. topsy turvy league also adds to the mix. 

 

4 hours ago, wildmen2011 said:

This issue stems directly from the Poch's approach. The player possesses significant potential, and it's up to the manager to guide and elevate the player to the next level. Given the player's limited experience, it falls on the manager to determine the right combination of strategies. Historically, Chelsea has focused on counter-attacking, but their current strategy appears to be a lackluster attempt at high pressing.

And to give a manager authority you need to make sure he HAS that authority, players don't like the manager? Okay the board will sack them and the players get their own way.

This is why United have to stick by ETH otherwise they'll never get rid of player power, I believe we have a similar problem just it's not as bad or out in the open. 

No, and no authority for him over signings either.

Owners need to set Winstanley and co a simple task. Fix the club in this window, buy players we are short on and give us a chance to finish top half.

They fail with that sack them.

Pochettino fails to deliver this, and to improve players we have rather than making Caicedo, Badiashile, Enzo and now even Palmer look sh*t, then he gets sacked too.