One week ago all seemed well with the world, we were chugging along nicely, no negative publicity, a seemingly happy camp, about to gain points on one of the Manchester clubs as they went head to head. We were very much in the title race and hitting some form, and finding the back of the net with increasing regularity ..

Our manager was getting nothing but plaudits.

City had the Tevez saga to contend with, Liverpool had alienated everybody with their proposal to re-distribute television revenues, there was the Suarez-Evra episode and Utd were about to suffer the most humiliating defeat in their history ..

Just goes to show .. One week is an awfully long time in football.

Chelsea being Chelsea .. It's all gone Pete Tong and everyone is revelling in our misery once again.

Suddenly a title chase has transformed into a desperate scramble for top four, and yes I know it's early days, but that's how it feels right now, at this moment in time.

Nothing a few good victories won't cure I'm sure.

This is why I'm worried ..

Our back four. I thought it was the best in the world. Is it? Whichever permutation you pick it suddenly looks vulnerable. Ashley is not the force he once was, Bossy is simply not a defender, nor is Luiz, and Ivanovic is better suited to right-back in my opinion. Add to that the Terry factor and we do not look as secure as we once did ..

And that's before we talk about a high line.

In truth, Saturday's scoreline had been on the cards a while now, we have been playing a risky game all season, and as soon as we came up against a side with attacking menace, we were always going to be vulnerable, as we were at Old Trafford. Against sides we can dominate, it's fine, the high line is worth the risk, but against better sides, we may not have the personnel to make it work, which brings me nicely to our holding midfielder ..

Another reason to be worried in my book. I know we've got Oriol, but as with Bertrand, a novice, and it's asking a lot. DM has become a vital position, even more vital than usual, because we look so open, because our full-backs charge forward, because Luiz goes AWOL, and because none of our front three are that great defensively.

Talking of our strikers .. More worries ..

Torres looks good but he doesn't look that good, not compared to the strikers our main rivals possess, and after Torres, who is there? Lukaku? Anelka?

Truth is, if Sturridge or Mata get injured, we're very thin on the ground, as Anelka, Malouda, Kalou and Drogba are all past their sell-by date as far as their Chelsea careers are concerned. Or am I being premature?

Talking of Drogba ..

I just think his head's not right, not to mention his body. Something's wrong and it's been wrong a long time. A very long time. Since we won the double. I have a feeling he's not happy, I have a feeling he's a strong personality, I have a feeling the African and French contingent defer to him, and if he's not happy that may be transmitting. It's just a feeling and I may be wrong, but if he's not fully committed to the cause, AVB might have problems, because Drogba is a strong presence in that dressing room and he has a few disciples, not to mention his young Belgian protege.

I'm reminded of a story told by Guillem Balague on Sky Sports about Messi ..

When Guardiola took over, he noticed that Messi had been taken under the wing of Ronaldo and his inner circle. The likes of Deco and others. Guardiola felt they were being a negative influence on Messi and sold them all, Eto'o leaving a year later. He dispensed with great players, who had done wonders for the club, because their attitudes had changed and they were no longer a positive influence.

I wonder whether we have reached that stage with Drogba? His powers are on the wane and he may be an unhelpful presence. Sad to say because he's been such a great player, a real match-winner, and we can ill afford to lose one of those.

Suddenly our squad doesn't look quite as strong as I thought it was, and as far as I can tell, there are four clubs battling for two spots, Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal and us.

Or am I being premature and will everything be fine in the wash? I know there are those who think those clubs' challenges will fade, but I'm not one of them. None of them can win the title but all have genuine claims for top four and it will be some race. They all feel like happy camps right now but things can change .. Just as they've changed with us in the last few days.

Personally, I don't care if we win f**k all, though I'd clearly prefer that we do, but failure to make top four would probably cost AVB his job, knowing Roman as we do, let's not kid ourselves. Top four is the minimum requirement and suddenly it doesn't look too safe.

Or are we still in with a shout for the title?

What do you guys think? Genuine cause for alarm or just a wobble and nothing to be unduly concerned about?

I'd worry a lot less if I thought you were worrying enough...

Just goes to show .. One week is an awfully long time in football.

It sure is, in the Prem, at least. The pressure, the media, make sure of that. Good thing is, it's often washed away by the weekend's games, to be replaced with new drama.

Unless you're defeated 5-3 by an underwhelming Arsenal squad. Then it starts all over again. This is going to be a very difficult week for AVB personally. It's his turn to be grilled. He's going to have explain the weak defensive efforts.

Clearly something's wrong with Drogba. I think it's physical, not mental. His passing is still sharp and I think he wants to succeed. He celebrates goals, his and those of others, like he cares. But he's painfully slower and weaker. I understand the loss of pace. But weaker? That comes as a shock.

As for Chelsea, I agree. Huge problems. AVB is playing a system which requires everyone to defend. But Chelsea's attackers don't seem interested. Sturridge sometimes does, sometimes doesn't. Torres rarely does. Mata gets close enough to make a show of trying, but he hardly ever tackles or applies real pressure. The result is the high defensive line is easily exposed by passers who have time on the ball.

Edited October 31, 201113 yr by wxwax

We have changed the style of play and it horribly shows in defensive mistakes. Our players haven't got worse, they just don't know how to cope in certain situations. It is not only the back four that defends, it is the entire team. It is a risky style of play but I think we certainly have to stick to it. It is down to our manager to tweak it so it fits to our players. It will take time and I fear this is not the last time we concede 5 goals. City has twice the talent on Arsenal.

If we don't succeed up front, in the attack, we are not going to succeed in defense. It is like a two headed sword. We need to have the energy to push and pressure opposite players when they have the ball. Against Arsenal in the second half we didn't.

JT should try his hardest to stay off the press. He is a senior player and a captain and he is the one who always should stay calm and assuring. He hasn't been that lately. He needs to take some of the blame. The 4th goal was a combination of Malouda and himself making a mistake and I think if he'd not slipped he didn't have the pace to catch it anyway.

What is the difference between AVB and Scolari?

Still believe we can win the title... but AVB needs to start making the hard choices and cut the fat. Bossingwa, Malouda, Anelka and yes probably even drogba. 2 out of 4 should go in this windoa and the other two at the end of the season.

Ivan should be playing at right back and in his basence Paulo. Ivan is a great center back, i can catagorily say he wasnt to blame for any goal on saturday. Take him out of the team and we conceade 5, the maths is simple. Time to step up AVB, you have us playing good football, now recognise the problems

Jesus wept. I go away for a weekend, and when I come back I find this and a huge number of moan-moan, "oh woe is us" threads. FFS, if you look up knee-jerk in the dictionary, it points you to this forum, at the moment.

I've said I despair with some of you people on many an occasion before, but the threads created or "added" to this weekend are just infantile and ridiculous.

I'll come back when we're winning something again, perhaps some of you lot will be a bit happier and a LOT more supportive of your team and your club

Edited October 31, 201113 yr by yorkleyblue

What is the difference between AVB and Scolari?

I'd say that the difference is that AVB has the potential to learn, change and improve. That was not likely with a much older and experienced Scolari. (And I assume that AVB hasn't lost the entire dressing room yet)

Barak, I reckon the only way we can possibly win the league title still is if City suffers a huge fatal travel disaster the day after the January transfer window closes.

Very Good write up on our formation changes this year

http://www.zonalmark...-boas-pressing/

Chelsea's first-choice starting XI so far this season

Amongst all the nonsense about Andre Villas-Boas being the new Jose Mourinho, the irony is that he’s done more to move Chelsea away from Mourinho’s overall playing style than Avram Grant, Felipe Scolari, Guus Hiddink and Carlo Ancelotti. In particular, the way they play without the ball.

Though not as much of a purely defensive manager as often made out, Mourinho was a fan of defending deep at Chelsea. The 4-3-3 looked more like a 4-5-1 in the defensive stage, with players asked to get behind the ball quickly and retreat into a deep, compact unit. This idea was more or less continued by his successors – Hiddink was a little more attack-minded but in the biggest games (notably against Barcelona) Chelsea were Mourinho-esque, whilst Ancelotti’s Chelsea were often rampant with the ball, but sat very deep without it – Florent Malouda and Nicolas Anelka were asked to move back and become wide midfielders.

Villas-Boas is different. His Porto side featured heavy pressing and a much more proactive strategy when it comes to winning the ball back. In this respect, he shares much more in common with Pep Guardiola (a man he hugely admires) than Mourinho.

Pressing

Frustratingly, pressing is a very difficult thing to prove statistically – at least with freely available statistics, anyway. It’s not as simple as pass completion ratios or number of shots attempted: ideally we’d have the data concerning how high up the pitch the defence plays and how much running the forwards get through, for example. B

ecause pressing can result in various outcomes – interceptions won, tackles won, opposition passes misplaced, it’s difficult to come up with an individual statistic that answers the question – are Chelsea pressing more this season?

A decent place to start, though, is offside figures. Because pressing involves closing down high up, and because any side (regardless of whether they defend high or deep) has to stay compact to prevent being played through between the lines, a high defensive line is a natural consequence of pressing. Chelsea have notably struggled with this at some points – the home game against Norwich in particular, where Grant Holt kept getting in behind the defence.

But they’re still playing high up, trying to catch the opposition offside. As a result, a comparison of their nine games so far this season and their first nine games of last season indicates a significant increase in the number of times the opposition are caught offside.

An average of 4.33, up from 1.67; that’s an increase of 160%.

This doesn’t prove that Chelsea are pressing more, but it does indicate that their defence is playing higher up the pitch – and there’s a clear link between those two concepts.

Fouling

One of the drawbacks with pressing is discipline. Your forwards are closing down and making more tackles, your midfielders are doing the same and sometimes forced into ‘cynical’ fouls to prevent the opposition breaking, and the defenders are leaving space in behind, making them prone to being sent off for denying clear goalscoring opportunities, as happened with Jose Bosingwa at the weekend (when, incidentally, Villas-Boas coped very well when down to nine men, as David Pleat articulates).

An obvious example of this is the Chilean side at last summer’s World Cup. They pressed more than any other side, but ended with more bookings than any other team in the tournament (with the exception of Holland, who played two games more and racked up most of their bookings in the final). They had two players suspended for the Spain match, an three from the Brazil match, and averaged 3.4 bookings per game, compared to the tournament average of 2.04. On the other hand, the side that defended the deepest, the North Koreans (with their odd five/six-man defence), picked up the fewest bookings in the tournament, just two from three games.

As for Chelsea, they are indeed conceding more free-kicks than in the equivalent spell last season.

An average of 12.8, up from 9.1 – an increase of 40%.

And that’s not all – Chelsea aren’t just conceding more fouls than last year, they’re picking up more bookings than any other Premier League side, even if a large number came on one game, against QPR. That’s quite a turnaround from last season, when they were given an award for having the best disciplinary record in the league.

The bookings can be linked to a more proactive approach without the ball, as can all three red cards they’ve suffered this season. Bosingwa, as mentioned, fouled when he was the final defender forced to cover a lot space in behind. Didier Drogba and Fernando Torres got red cards for terrible tackles in the opposition half, but would they have been making those fouls last year? Probably not – they’ve been told to close down and help defend high up the pitch, rather than just dropping back and forming part of a deep barrier that opponents can’t break down. Both tackles were more about a lack of tackling technique than pure dirtiness.

Are Chelsea conceding fewer shots?

In a word – yes:

From 12.7 to 10.1 per match, a 21% decrease.

And, more than that, they’re conceding fewer shots than any other side in the league. They may not have a particularly good record at keeping clean sheets, but if

Manchester United’s tendency to concede a lot of shots hinted at a heavy defeat, Chelsea’s tendency to concede few hints at an upcoming decent run defensively.

But…

This doesn’t take account of the type of shots Chelsea are conceding, and their record of conceding the least number of shots can also be attributed to having the highest average percentage of possession so far.

A deep defence is likely to concede lots of shots but a high proportion of them will be long-range efforts, whilst a higher defence is more prone to one-on-ones, which are naturally very good goalscoring opportunities. As mentioned earlier, this is a particular problem for Chelsea at the moment.

This will be of interest against Arsenal this weekend. Arsenal may have their own problems, but if there’s one thing they do have, it’s pace. Theo Walcott and Gervinho can come inside from the flanks to get on the end of balls over the top, whilst Robin van Persie is in good goalscoring form, and is an expert at dragging centre-backs high up the pitch. This will be an interesting test for Villas-Boas – should he continue to press and risk being caught out, or ask his side to defend deeper?

Edited October 31, 201113 yr by Tea Bar Boy

Jesus wept. I go away for a weekend, and when I come back I find this and a huge number of moan-moan, "oh woe is us" threads. FFS, if you look up knee-jerk in the dictionary, it points you to this forum, at the moment.

I've said I despair with some of you people on many an occasion before, but the threads created or "added" to this weekend are just infantile and ridiculous.

I'll come back when we're winning something again, perhaps some of you lot will be a bit happier and a LOT more supportive of your team and your club

Come on YB you can’t be surprised at the topics of discussion following back to back defeats against our London rivals? Things are hardly fine and dandy! We’ve just let in 5 goals at The Bridge against an Arsenal side that is at best average. This wasn’t an Arsenal side with a Henry or Vierra or Fabregas or Nasri and yet they looked likely to score every time they entered our half! I feel folk have a right to be a bit concerned and get a few things off their chest. What are the stats? AVB has lost more games in his first dozen than others did during whole seasons, not to mention the goals conceded.

Don’t get me wrong. I personally am kinda enjoying the ride. Can never enjoy losing to the likes of QPR and Arsenal but I can see how AVB is trying to change our playing style and there are bound to be hiccups along the way. I don’t think anyone is saying AVB out or anything near to that, although there are a number of players who are clearly past their usefulness and have to be let go, sooner rather than later.

After the two defeats we have just suffered it would be asking a lot to expect positive posts with no questions being asked?!!

Edited October 31, 201113 yr by Nibs

Jesus wept. I go away for a weekend, and when I come back I find this and a huge number of moan-moan, "oh woe is us" threads. FFS, if you look up knee-jerk in the dictionary, it points you to this forum, at the moment.

I've said I despair with some of you people on many an occasion before, but the threads created or "added" to this weekend are just infantile and ridiculous.

I'll come back when we're winning something again, perhaps some of you lot will be a bit happier and a LOT more supportive of your team and your club

I don't see an issue with the above, DB's post. It's natural to analyse after a defeat and I'm sure AVB will as well as the present be looking to the future and so are the fans. Personally I'm not unhappy but the first time we've conceded 5 goals at home in 22 years is going to provoke thought and reaction.

josh mceachran to save te day anyone? Any one?? ANY BODY?

Im going straight to the blackburn game hear and we should be looking to start that somthing like this...

Chech

Ivan (best rightback in the league, AVB is making a mistake by not seeing this)

Luiz (DB the guy is a legend in the making, get over it, will be the best center back in the world inside of 3 years! your round when im right)

JT

Cole

Romeu (soo good it hurts, how has he not nailed the place yet, this is a mistake on AVB's part unless he is trying to avoide barca's gaze)

Ramires (At the moment should start and finish every game, the last 20 mins of a game is like a power play with him on the pitch. Bringing him of is a constant error)

Lamsp (Has to start right now as he’s back in form but should be the player hooked late in games)

Sturidge (Poor game but still our best striker even though he’s not playing as a striker)

Torres (No other viable option right now)

Mata (some body inject him with adamantiem)

Subs, Josh, Paulo, Alex, Anelka, Marelis, SUB GK (don’t care which one)

We should now put our selves in a position where we may have to put bossy or malouda on the pitch. The rare reward is not worth the constant disappointment. I think we could probably blame Bossy for nearly half the goals we have conceded this season

Come on YB you can’t be surprised at the topics of discussion following back to back defeats against our London rivals? Things are hardly fine and dandy! We’ve just let in 5 goals at The Bridge against an Arsenal side that is at best average. This wasn’t an Arsenal side with a Henry or Vierra or Fabregas or Nasri and yet they looked likely to score every time they entered our half! I feel folk have a right to be a bit concerned and get a few things off their chest. What are the stats? AVB has lost more games in his first dozen than others did during whole seasons, not to mention the goals conceded.

Don’t get me wrong. I personally am kinda enjoying the ride. Can never enjoy losing to the likes of QPR and Arsenal but I can see how AVB is trying to change our playing style and there are bound to be hiccups along the way. I don’t think anyone is saying AVB out or anything near to that, although there are a number of players who are clearly past their usefulness and have to be let go, sooner rather than later.

After the two defeats we have just suffered it would be asking a lot to expect positive posts with no questions being asked?!!

I know where you are coming from Nibs, but the sheer number of new threads and doom and gloom is becoming more indicative of us as a group being spoilt and expecting to get three points and a shedload of goals just for turning up. We lost a sh*t game to QPR because of a combination of bad refereeing and the team losingthe plot a bit because of it. I didn't see the Arse game at all, so can't comment about how we played, but, like the "Team Bridge" matcyh, it came on the back of a sustained press campaign against Terry, something that must have had an impact.

My point is that, OK, we've had a bad week. So what? We've had bad weeks before, we've had bad "moments" before and we've had f**king bad seasons. For me, some of the posts (not even specifically this thread) smack of knee-jerk, childish tantrums, the sky is falling in, we'll be lucky to avoid relegation, the team is sh*te, the manager is sh*te, oh woe, oh woe, oh woe.

Last season,people were crying out for a change in the way we played. Now they've got it. There appears to be very little tolerance of the fact that any new system will take time to bed in, the players will take time to get used to it, and, in that period, things will go against us.

Any road up, when I heard the result on the radio on Saturday, I knew what my "Show New Content" list would show when I got to log in here today, and, sadly, I was right. I can understand people's disappointment with the results, but cannot come anywhere near understanding the depth of bile and criticism posted. FFS, someone even dug up the old "Can AVB make Mikel into a decent juggler or something thread" I don't know how he played on Saturday, but SURELY there is some sort of merit in saying that no matter how badly he played, he couldn't be responsible for ALL of the last two weeks. That's just one example.

So, as I said previously, I think I'll wander off now until we start winning again or get relegated or some of these people decide where their true loyalties lie. (not you, you know that!)

I'll come back when we're winning something again, perhaps some of you lot will be a bit happier and a LOT more supportive of your team and your club

Irony then is obviously not my thing.

FFS, someone even dug up the old "Can AVB make Mikel into a decent juggler or something thread" I don't know how he played on Saturday, but SURELY there is some sort of merit in saying that no matter how badly he played, he couldn't be responsible for ALL of the last two weeks. That's just one example.

Guilty as charged!!!

(Was bored last night whilst the family were watching X Factor. Not that I need any excuse where John Obi is concerned!)

Whilst the stat about having much less shots against us this year sounds good on paper, the problem is when we played deep defensively, the opposition were forced to mostly have long range shots, which generally required something special to beat Cech. But in giving them so much space behind our back 4, if they break through (which only really requires a decent pass into space and a fast striker, nothing special) then any shots they have are going to be one-on-one with the goal keeper mostly. So less shots becomes more goals conceded.

I shall raise a glass when we reach 42 points.

Don’t get me wrong. I personally am kinda enjoying the ride. Can never enjoy losing to the likes of QPR and Arsenal but I can see how AVB is trying to change our playing style and there are bound to be hiccups along the way. I don’t think anyone is saying AVB out or anything near to that, although there are a number of players who are clearly past their usefulness and have to be let go, sooner rather than later.

I feel the same Nibs,

I was really calm after the game on Saturday. The week before i was really bothered, but on Saturday things became a little clearer and the whole 90 mins was for me just a confirmation of our current position and what our short term goals should be.

We are, as if we didnt know now offically, very much a team in full transition. We are not a team who is going to challenge for the Premier League title this year. If you disagree with that then i can only admire your confidence and faith, whereas i like to take a more pragmatic approach. Lets face it, we are not on the same level as City, and are also behind Utd too (though not too far behind) As Davey has pointed out, this season we are one for 4 clubs fighting for 2 places.

We are a team with older players being phased out and younger players being integrated all while the style of play is being radically changed. We have a fresh young manager with new ideas , who clearly is learning and will make mistakes but doesnt seem scared of doing so.

I think after the Utd result we put a winning run together and played some great stuff too which perhaps made us think we were going to make a push for the title. But all through those games there was , at least for me, the nagging feeling that we still have a long way to go, for both the players and the manager. Saturday just confirmed this for me and game me relative calm as i now know what sort of season we have have ahead of us.

I think its going to be fascinating, and as Nibs says is going to be a great ride. I wouldnt be surprised to see more scorelines like Saturday and lets just hope in our favor. Right now the next aim has to be AVB learning from his mistakes so far and picking the right players for his formations, whilst knowing what teams these formations will be a risk against and adapt. Id also like the coaching team to working on our attackers finishing.

Roll on Tuesday.

It's definitely all about the system and getting the players to implement it under pressure and against the better sides. On Saturday it broke down. The blame can't all be pushed on to the defenders. It starts from the front. We didn't press as we have to and so Arsenal had time to pick their passes. Individuals didn't stick to their jobs and we got punished. It may well be that we need some personnel changes but in the meantime it's up to AVB to stick to his guns and drill the players to carry out his instructions.

It's definitely all about the system and getting the players to implement it under pressure and against the better sides. On Saturday it broke down. The blame can't all be pushed on to the defenders. It starts from the front. We didn't press as we have to and so Arsenal had time to pick their passes. Individuals didn't stick to their jobs and we got punished. It may well be that we need some personnel changes but in the meantime it's up to AVB to stick to his guns and drill the players to carry out his instructions.

Its not all down to the defence you're right on that but they did all have a bit of a shocker on saturday, I doubt you'll ever see JT and Cech have a game that poor again!

It was just one of those days, lets put it behind us and get on with the exciting new future we've got under AVB!

Didn't think Terry had a bad game, at least no worse than anyone else. I blame Malouda much more than Terry for the 4th goal, it was a very poor back pass when there was no need for it.

It really did highlight the problems with the high line though. If we'd been deeper, Cech could have come out and intercepted that ball before Van persie got to it, but because we're so high, he has acres of space to run into.

I'm in the camp of it being the system rather than the players fault though, unlike quite a lot of people here. Having said that, it's obvious people like Bosingwa shouldn't be starting every game, Ivan should be at RB, as he's better there than CB and that would give more experience for Luiz. But I really feel there were better ways of improving our attacking game without sacrificing everything we ever did right defensively.

BJD,

You must have nerves of steel! I admire your calmness in the face of adversity!

I'm not someone who considers myself to be particularly spoilt, in-fact quite the opposite, however, I didn't enjoy Sunday one bit. I agree 100% that it's a transtional season for us but how many 'transitional' games quite like that do we get before becoming a complete laughing stock?

I suppose, like others have already said, we have now reached a cross-roads. Pressure is upon the manager and his methods for how the team play. The players need to step up, if they buy into it.

He has to stick with it, of course. If that's what he believes, then so be it. I just wonder how many others share his beliefs and how many more results like that Roman is willing to turn a blind eye to?

If the same things happen against Liverpool and Spurs in the coming weeks - what then? We seem to have failed every 'test' in the league that has come our way, so far. Will he be man enough to say, okay, back to the drawing board?...

I hope they get it right, sooner rather than later. I really do.

Ive read people talk about Terry and Cech having a poor game but without a doubt Torres was the worst player on the pitch. It was pointless him being there really. I have to say im not Anelka's biggest fan but you have to give it to him he will keep on trying for the 90 minutes and he doesnt throw little hissy fits when things dont go his way. Torres was awful and i believe that the new system demands that the pressure is put on the attacking team up high so i place the blame more on Torres shoulders that Terry's or Cech's.

Ive read people talk about Terry and Cech having a poor game but without a doubt Torres was the worst player on the pitch. It was pointless him being there really. I have to say im not Anelka's biggest fan but you have to give it to him he will keep on trying for the 90 minutes and he doesnt throw little hissy fits when things dont go his way. Torres was awful and i believe that the new system demands that the pressure is put on the attacking team up high so i place the blame more on Torres shoulders that Terry's or Cech's.

Really!!

Torres consistently closes the defenders down. however out of the front 3 he is generally the only one unless Lamps, Mireles or Ramires join him. As for saying Nico presses high up the pitch now I know your smoking something, definitely not his strongest point.

My only real concern is RA presses the panic button,sack's Boas and we go back to square one.

The fellow's GOT to have time to learn his trade,cock-ups will,(& have) happend,but he's a smart cookie & he'll learn from them.Mistakes make the best teachers.

Just give him some time & paitence, please!.