Your arguements would have so much more credibility if you just admitted torres was world class at liverpool. 

 

So your saying his pace and movement were the only reasons he scored goals at liverpool? Pace and movement don't put the ball in the back of the net! His finishing was amazing!

 

His finishing wasn't "Awesome" it was average at best,  the only reason he scored so many goals was the sheer amount of chances he got.   Chances which were created because of his pace and movement as well as the passing ability of Alonso and Gerrard.

Never judge a forward on his goals, WTF!!

Hazard a guess your on a wind up be honest. How can you not think torres was a good finisher at liverpool. I know you don't value or care about other members view so this won't bother you,your an asshole and as much as you think your right with every deluded post you make your actually wrong and I'm sure 95% of fellow members would agree with me. MUG.

Edited February 24, 201313 yr by bluegraham

Hazard a guess your on a wind up be honest. How can you not think torres was a good finisher at liverpool. I know you don't value or care about other members view so this won't bother you,your an asshole and as much as you think your right with every deluded post you make your actually wrong and I'm sure 95% of fellow members would agree with me. MUG.

 

For god sake it's you're.  every single time.

 

You know nothing about me and are only going off what another has said but i guess you're right it's hard to take anyones opinion seriously when they think a youtube video showing only a players goals gives an accurate representation of his ability.

 

 

This Mikel bloke is some player.  The opposition just can't get near him.

For god sake it's you're. every single time.

You know nothing about me and are only going off what another has said but i guess you're right it's hard to take anyones opinion seriously when they think a youtube video showing only a players goals gives an accurate representation of his ability.

This Mikel bloke is some player. The opposition just can't get near him.

I know you think your right the whole time that's what I get from your posts anyway. Have I upset you sorry if I have I didn't think you would be bothered. Mr right.

What does give a good measure then- I am still waiting to hear?

Goals statistics are not allowed (strange when reviewing a striker), video evidence is out too.

We have all seen him play so all have opinions. These opinions can be backed up or illustrated with something called evidence. So far you are doing a lot of dismissing (in relation to others opininions) and not much providing (when presenting your own).

His finishing wasn't "Awesome" it was average at best,  the only reason he scored so many goals was the sheer amount of chances he got.   Chances which were created because of his pace and movement as well as the passing ability of Alonso and Gerrard.

So he got a lot of chances because of his pace and movement? So does pace and movement not count when you are judging a player on how good he is?

 

The facts are stacked up against you here on this one. Anyway no point in carrying on this debate when it's clear you have never rated torres. You either never watched torres much in his time their or you just don't know much about what makes a top striker.

Anyone who saw the way Torres ran rings around Vidic and Rio a few years back knows how good he really once was.

 

If he played for us as well as he did at his peak, 50m wouldn't have been a bad deal.

i Beg to differ, that goal He scored against us when he cut in from the left and bent it round Cech, that is a truly great strikers goal not just finishing the whole package, Technique pace poise  trickery the lot, i remember just thinking, what a f**king goal, he was a special player at liverpool. he has just lost his belief and confidence, so he may not get it back, i don't believe he is tremendously much slower and he may get it back, but not for us, and carry on playing like today, and Ba will look sh*te..

Edited February 24, 201313 yr by Ballack & Blu

For god sake it's you're. every single time.

For god's sake it's for god's sake. Every single time.

Torres could never, ever be described as clinical anywhere in his career. 

 

 

Jesus christ... and people call Liverpool fans deluded?

 

Torres was by a mile the best striker in the world from 2007-2010. He should have won world player of the year in 2008, only to be robbed by Ronaldo's tap ins and penalties.

 

The reason he was so brilliant, was because he had the 3 best mids behind him (Mascherano, Alonso, Gerrard) And because he could create goals out of nothing.

 

Finished 90% of 1v1s he had, scored headers, dribbled past 4 players before scoring, scored long range shots, volleys. He was majestic until his injury, now he seems to have lost all confidence and ability.

His finishing wasn't "Awesome" it was average at best,  the only reason he scored so many goals was the sheer amount of chances he got.   Chances which were created because of his pace and movement as well as the passing ability of Alonso and Gerrard.

I'm a Liverpool fan who has watched every game since about 2003.

 

I can categorically say that the above quote is a load of bullsh*t.

 

Torres hardly got any chances, but the ones he did get - he buried. Don't know what this sh*t is that he got millions of chances.

So he got a lot of chances because of his pace and movement? So does pace and movement not count when you are judging a player on how good he is?

 

The facts are stacked up against you here on this one. Anyway no point in carrying on this debate when it's clear you have never rated torres. You either never watched torres much in his time their or you just don't know much about what makes a top striker.

His pace and movement were good and I've acknowledged that. However they were the only good thing about his game and now that they're gone he's not good enough for the premier league. He never had the technical ability which you would expect from the world class player.

What does give a good measure then- I am still waiting to hear?

Goals statistics are not allowed (strange when reviewing a striker), video evidence is out too.

We have all seen him play so all have opinions. These opinions can be backed up or illustrated with something called evidence. So far you are doing a lot of dismissing (in relation to others opininions) and not much providing (when presenting your own).

It's amusing how you make up arguments then argue against them as if I've said them.

Any player can look good with a YouTube video showing his goals/highlights and stats don't always paint a true picture. For example we had 51% possession against City. Looks like he were pretty even? Alas we both no we got battered. Torres scored goals but that doesn't mean he was any less reliant on pace or that his technical ability was any better.

I don't know what evidence you expect me to provide. What evidence can you provide for saying someone isn't world class? It's all down to personal opinion and my opinion is that we wasn't world class.

Anyone who saw the way Torres ran rings around Vidic and Rio a few years back knows how good he really once was.

 

If he played for us as well as he did at his peak, 50m wouldn't have been a bad deal.

I can recall him using his pace to exploit 2 slow centre backs probably the best I've seen him play.

I disagree on the 2nd part. Paying 50 Million for a peak Torres would still be awful business and he wouldn't have got in our team anyway with Drogba around. (Unless we changed the system)

I'm a Liverpool fan who has watched every game since about 2003.

 

I can categorically say that the above quote is a load of bullsh*t.

 

Torres hardly got any chances, but the ones he did get - he buried. Don't know what this sh*t is that he got millions of chances.

................Just some of the normal type of sh*te spouted on this thread......

I don't recall him ever winning games on his own, he scored goals but he had better service than any other striker in the world.

The passes from Alonso and too a lesser extent Gerrard coupled with his good movement led to him getting a lot of chances to stick it in the back on the net. Which he did at a solid but unspectacular rate.

Once Alonso went rate at which Torres scored dropped considerably.

As for Bent - probably never, though he did beat Arsenal at the emirates with 2 goals in a 2-1 win for Aston Villa.

 

 

 

2008/2009 season Torres 34 starts 18 goals

 

2009/2010 season Alonso is sold

 

Torres - 26 starts 22 goals

 

^ Nice maths.

His pace and movement were good and I've acknowledged that. However they were the only good thing about his game and now that they're gone he's not good enough for the premier league. He never had the technical ability which you would expect from the world class player.

It's amusing how you make up arguments then argue against them as if I've said them.

Any player can look good with a YouTube video showing his goals/highlights and stats don't always paint a true picture. For example we had 51% possession against City. Looks like he were pretty even? Alas we both no we got battered. Torres scored goals but that doesn't mean he was any less reliant on pace or that his technical ability was any better.

I don't know what evidence you expect me to provide. What evidence can you provide for saying someone isn't world class? It's all down to personal opinion and my opinion is that we wasn't world class.

I can recall him using his pace to exploit 2 slow centre backs probably the best I've seen him play.

I disagree on the 2nd part. Paying 50 Million for a peak Torres would still be awful business and he wouldn't have got in our team anyway with Drogba around. (Unless we changed the system)

 

 

 

"Torres had average technical ability"

 

 

1st goal vs Chelsea

 

Volley vs Blackburn

 

Euro 2008 final goal

 

Numerous other lobbed the GK goals

 

Volley vs West Ham

 

Numerous excellent headers

 

Numerous goals created from exceptional dribbling ability, taking on 2-4 defenders

2008/2009 season Torres 34 starts 18 goals

 

2009/2010 season Alonso is sold

 

Torres - 26 starts 22 goals

 

^ Nice maths.

Torres with Alonso at the club. 84 games 50 goals. 0.6 goals per game.

Torres without Alonso at the club. 58 games 31 goals. 0.53 goals per game.

The drop is evident. All of the European games without Alonso were in the Europa league as well so the standard of opposition also dropped.

Possibly the most overrated football player in the world while he was at Liverpool.

Oh no he really wasn't. 34 goals in his first season in England, terrorising every defence and back to back hat tricks would suggest he wasn't overrated at all. Unfortunately it seems as though Liverpool was the perfect team for him, not us.

Seeing Ba's struggles, I am beginning to believe that strikers and Chelsea football club dont go together. 

His pace and movement were good and I've acknowledged that. However they were the only good thing about his game and now that they're gone he's not good enough for the premier league. He never had the technical ability which you would expect from the world class player.

It's amusing how you make up arguments then argue against them as if I've said them.

Any player can look good with a YouTube video showing his goals/highlights and stats don't always paint a true picture. For example we had 51% possession against City. Looks like he were pretty even? Alas we both no we got battered. Torres scored goals but that doesn't mean he was any less reliant on pace or that his technical ability was any better.

I don't know what evidence you expect me to provide. What evidence can you provide for saying someone isn't world class? It's all down to personal opinion and my opinion is that we wasn't world class.

I can recall him using his pace to exploit 2 slow centre backs probably the best I've seen him play.

I disagree on the 2nd part. Paying 50 Million for a peak Torres would still be awful business and he wouldn't have got in our team anyway with Drogba around. (Unless we changed the system)

 

You keep bleating on about the fact that I have posted a youtube video as if I have posted the video without any other statistical evidence or arguments and claimed that Torres was world class and the video proves that fact in itself. Let me try and break it down for you one last time.

 

The main basis of your argument is that Torres was never a good footballer. You say he was always a poor footballer who only scored the amount of goals he did due to the fact he had pace and had Gerrard & Alonso providing him with such world class service that it covered up the fact he was actually rather poor. Are you still we me at this point? Let's carry on..

 

I have disagreed with you and not only provided his goal scoring statistics whilst he was at Liverpool (81 in 142- pretty good I think most would agree) but also provided a video showing each and every goal he scored for Liverpool so we can see if what you are saying has any truth in it. If you take 10 minutes and actually watch the video you will see a player scoring a lot of goals from a lot of different scenerios using an extensive skill set which in effect highlights the stupidity of your argument that his goals were as a result of pace combined with Gerrard & Alonso and nothing else.

 

In contrast, as a counter argument, the best you could come up with was a completely out of context & unrelated video of Mikel. Bravo.

Obvioulsy you are trying to discredit the fact that I posted a youtube video to support my argument as if I am just posting a highlights video and claiming he is world class but it is not quite that simple is it- the video is to be viewed in conjunction with his goal scoring statistics which are needless to say very impressive indeed but according to you 'didn't tell the whole story'. We have looked at the goal statistics and now we have looked at how they were scored- both impressive. What on earth is the 'whole story' if the amount of goals scored and how they were scored aren't the key factors to consider in this debate?

 

The more I think about what you are claiming the more absurd it becomes. Are you really suggesting that any player with pace and an finishing ability which is, to quote you 'average at best' would have achieved the same or similar goal return? Could they have saved themselves the money and signed a player such as Wright-Phillips and just stuck him upfront? He has pace, bags of it, and his finishing ability is definately average at best. With the service from Gerrard & Alonso he would surely have banged them in as well?

 

Finally you ask me what evidence you can provide to prove he wasn't world class. I agree with you on this- there is nothing you can do to prove he wasn't world class but in terms of evidence to support your argument I would have thought that if he was as bad as you claim he was at Liverpool there would be more evidence at your disposal than posting an enrelated video of John Mikel Obi as the main basis of your argument but I will leave that one to you.

Here are some goals per league game figures for some of our past strikers:

 

Didier Drogba: 0.44 at Guingamp, 0.54 at Marseille and 0.44 at Chelsea

Hernan Crespo: 0.53 at Parma, 0.72 at Lazio, 0.39 at Inter, 0.44 at Chelsea

Andriy Shevchenko: 0.61 at Milan and 0.19 at Chelsea

Adrian Mutu: 0.58 at Parma, 0.22 at Chelsea, 0.31 at Juventus and 0.48 at Fiorentina

Nicolas Anelka: 0.42 at Manchester City, 0.36 at Fenerbahce, 0.40 at Bolton and 0.30 at Chelsea

Saloman Kalou: 0.5 at Feyenoord and 0.23 at Chelsea

Fernando Torres: 0.38 at Athletico, 0.64 at Liverpool and 0.19 at Chelsea

 

One common feature there is that in almost all the cases, their poorest goals per game returns were at Chelsea. Read what you may out of that.

The Kalou one is harsh - he very very rarely played the full 90. In fact, he rarely played more than 30 minutes a game, and still managed a better ratio than Torres...

Hahaha Kalou has a better scoring record than Torres? That's brilliant. Sign him up Roman!

Martin Samuel on Torres today:

 

Please stop making excuses for Torres

Given every opportunity, Fernando Torres has scored one goal since December 23 -
against League One Brentford in the FA Cup. His former team-mate Yossi Benayoun
knows who is to blame for this: his employers at Chelsea.

'Fernando had a bad time in the beginning there,' he said. 'When he came in he was on the
bench, then on the pitch. He did not get the confidence.'

Not true.
Torres's first season for Chelsea was 2010-11. Following a late January
transfer, his debut was on February 6, at home to Liverpool, one of 19 matches
before the end of the season.

Torres started 11 and came on in seven more, playing an additional two hours and 34
minutes as a substitute. He was absent for just one fixture, against Everton.

As for being on the bench, Torres started five of the first six games after his
arrival, including appearances against FC Copenhagen, Blackpool and Fulham.
There was plenty of opportunity to find his feet in front of goal.

Indeed, far from not having faith, coach Carlo Ancelotti then seemed to reserve Torres
for the biggest matches. He was lightly raced against Wigan Athletic, West
Bromwich Albion, West Ham United and Birmingham City, but started against
Manchester City, Tottenham Hotspur, Liverpool and three times against
Manchester United, including twice in the Champions League. It is time to stop
making excuses.

'This is the first year he has been given the chance to be No 1 because Didier Drogba
was here,' Benayoun added. Yes, and look what has happened.

Torres had a decent run coinciding with Chelsea's purple patches and weak opponents -
he has scored one goal against a team in the top half all season - but as his
team-mates have laboured he has all but disappeared.

Roman Abramovich, meanwhile, has bent over backwards to prove his judgment right. He
prematurely ditched Drogba and appointed the man who mined most from Torres at
Liverpool.

Yet the inability to perform in a way that endorses Rafael Benitez's employment at
Chelsea suggests Torres is now a spent force.

The club has done everything possible. Torres finds his form between now and May, or
Chelsea must cut their losses in the summer. And, at £50m, it will be some
loss.

Jesus christ... and people call Liverpool fans deluded?

 

Torres was the second best striker in the world from 2007-2010. If it wasn't for Dider " Big Game" Drogba he may have been rated as the best

 

The reason he was so brilliant, was because he had the 3 best mids behind him (Mascherano, Alonso, Gerrard) And because he could create goals out of nothing.

 

Finished 90% of 1v1s he had, scored headers, dribbled past 4 players before scoring, scored long range shots, volleys. He was majestic until his injury, now he seems to have lost all confidence and ability.

 

Fixed that for you fella.

 

Drogba was always the better all round player. Even Jamie Carragher said he was unplayable at times.