As a specialist defensive midfielder he is quite poor at being both defensive and also a midfielder.

I don't think he brings anything at all to the team.

Probably you have never kicked a ball before, it's obvious

Against Stoke he did, then it was back to his worst again against Liverpool.

Right on. We need a better option long term.someone with a bit of pace for a start.this season we are coming up against younger midfielders snapping at our heels.tiote is the type (though not necessarily him)of holding and central midfielder we need in my opinion or wanyama.when mikel and Matic get turned they are way too slow to recover.

Probably you have never kicked a ball before, it's obvious

Probably

As a specialist defensive midfielder he is quite poor at being both defensive and also a midfielder.

I don't think he brings anything at all to the team.

Composure? Strength? Simple but effective and he was pretty good in Munich, plus you don't stay at Chelsea for nearly ten years, under numerous managers, if you offer nothing.

Edited November 3, 201510 yr by Floyd25

@Floyd, spot on

Composure? Strength? Simple but effective and he was pretty good in Munich, plus you don't stay at Chelsea for nearly ten years, under numerous managers, if you offer nothing.

 

When people look to big up Mikel they ALWAYS bring up Munich! Fair enough, it was a massive game and Mikel played well that night. But that one game and it was over 3 years ago and a lot of players have moved on since then. Mikel is a useful squad player but nothing more than that - lets not pretend he is the answer.

Edited November 4, 201510 yr by Nibs

Composure? Strength? Simple but effective and he was pretty good in Munich, plus you don't stay at Chelsea for nearly ten years, under numerous managers, if you offer nothing.

If he's so strong why does he be eased of the ball so much for a big man. He played well in Munich that's what he was supposed to do wsnst it. For a big man he loses 50/50 way to much. He gave the ball away 4 times in the first half against Liverpool which is a common situation that's hardly being composed. I wouldn't say slowing down play and laying of 5 yard passes is effective. Its hard to perform when your not always in the squad but for me bes not good enough and is blocking the path of a youngster. For someone who sits on the bench alot at s big club why has no club tried to come buy him besides one or two Turkish clubs. I like Mikel seems like s nice guy but really can't see what he offers the club

Edited November 4, 201510 yr by bluegraham

When people look to big up Mikel they ALWAYS bring up Munich! Fair enough, it was a massive game and Mikel played well that night. But that one game and it was over 3 years ago and a lot of players have moved on since then. Mikel is a useful squad player but nothing more than that - lets not pretend he is the answer.

 

 

I think thats been acknowledged and they why we brought Matic, but Mikel is adequate back up. The same accusation could be throwen at Ramires, even more so, since the game against barca I don't feel he has really offered much top draw, and more so for me as i see him as a direct infringement to the chances of Baker and RLC

I think thats been acknowledged and they why we brought Matic, but Mikel is adequate back up. The same accusation could be throwen at Ramires, even more so, since the game against barca I don't feel he has really offered much top draw, and more so for me as i see him as a direct infringement to the chances of Baker and RLC

 

Agreed. 

 

Trouble is Mikel was good as back-up for Matic, but since Matic's form has nose-dived this season we could really do with a player we could rely on week in, week out and regretably, Mikel is not that player.

 

I wasn't really for us signing Pogba, but right now I would consider breaking the bank to get him, even if that meant parting with Matic. Or have Pogba with Matic as back up and I would then sell Mikel and Ramires and look to integrate RLC, Baker and Ake.

Agreed.

Trouble is Mikel was good as back-up for Matic, but since Matic's form has nose-dived this season we could really do with a player we could rely on week in, week out and regretably, Mikel is not that player.

I wasn't really for us signing Pogba, but right now I would consider breaking the bank to get him, even if that meant parting with Matic. Or have Pogba with Matic as back up and I would then sell Mikel and Ramires and look to integrate RLC, Baker and Ake.

But Pogba's not a defensive mid, he's combative but in the Gerrard, lana part, yaya style. He doesn't protect the back four or break up play

Basically, probably is what I hope Baker and RLC become, box to box midfielders but a tracking focused. Could easily go to a 433 and play matic pogba and RLC, that mid wouldn't get over run or out muscled but Mikel would still be the man to shield the 4 if matic was out

Edited November 4, 201510 yr by barak81

Mikel is far to weak and sloppy to protect our back 4.

Composure? Strength? Simple but effective and he was pretty good in Munich, plus you don't stay at Chelsea for nearly ten years, under numerous managers, if you offer nothing.

I think the posts following yours essentially summed up my rebuttal.

For someone to have an attribute, let's say strength, I would say they need to win at least 7 out of 10 strength battles to accurately say they are strong?.  Or they have to be composed more times than not.

I don't have a big time moment example, but if the only argument to support Mikel in 10 years of predominantly warming the pine at Chelsea, is that he was strong and composed in one game (all be it a big one) then I don't think he possesses those qualities.

He has never nailed down a starting position for any length of time in my memory, and even if he has, has been replaced eventually.  You don't go warming the bench for 10 years if you have something to offer the team.  

My point being, what he can do , whatever his qualities are.. A) I think there are players out there who can do that PLUS a whole lot more, B) it's just not Chelsea standard,

 

When people look to big up Mikel they ALWAYS bring up Munich! Fair enough, it was a massive game and Mikel played well that night. But that one game and it was over 3 years ago and a lot of players have moved on since then. Mikel is a useful squad player but nothing more than that - lets not pretend he is the answer.

I agree, he's a useful squad player, I was just making the point that he does offer something, otherwise he wouldn't still be here.

If he's so strong why does he be eased of the ball so much for a big man. He played well in Munich that's what he was supposed to do wsnst it. For a big man he loses 50/50 way to much. He gave the ball away 4 times in the first half against Liverpool which is a common situation that's hardly being composed. I wouldn't say slowing down play and laying of 5 yard passes is effective. Its hard to perform when your not always in the squad but for me bes not good enough and is blocking the path of a youngster. For someone who sits on the bench alot at s big club why has no club tried to come buy him besides one or two Turkish clubs. I like Mikel seems like s nice guy but really can't see what he offers the club

Fair enough, I won't bring up Munich again, it's just easy to bring up when people state that Mikel is basically useless. Yes, he gave the ball away against Liverpool, but how can you say he lacks composure, based on one performance? I've seen him being composed in tight situations, numerous times in multiple games. I'm not even sure that Mikel is as good as he once was and I'm not trying to pretend that he's a great player, but he often seems to be the scapegoat which is unfair, he's a long term servant and the man deserves a bit more respect.

I think the posts following yours essentially summed up my rebuttal.

For someone to have an attribute, let's say strength, I would say they need to win at least 7 out of 10 strength battles to accurately say they are strong?.  Or they have to be composed more times than not.

I don't have a big time moment example, but if the only argument to support Mikel in 10 years of predominantly warming the pine at Chelsea, is that he was strong and composed in one game (all be it a big one) then I don't think he possesses those qualities.

He has never nailed down a starting position for any length of time in my memory, and even if he has, has been replaced eventually.  You don't go warming the bench for 10 years if you have something to offer the team.  

My point being, what he can do , whatever his qualities are.. A) I think there are players out there who can do that PLUS a whole lot more, B) it's just not Chelsea standard,

 

What he said was Mikel has Composure and Strength and that he was pretty good in the biggest game of his Chelsea career, not that he only show strength and composure in this game.

Mikel does possess Composure and strength and I understand if people are frustrated with his (lack of) forward thinking play but that doesn't instantly make him bad at everything as some people are trying to make out. He is a solid DM and people should give him credit for this.

Since the start of the 2009/2010 season so just over 6 years Mikel has played over 11500 minutes (182 appearances out of an estimated 286) for Chelsea in the BPL CL and EL so important games so for me that's more than just a bench warmer especially when you consider injuries and AFCON. In those games he has been dispossessed on average a measely 1.1 times per 90 mins (less than Matic (1.2)) as well as a passing success rate close to 90% (higher than matic (86)) from around 47 passes per 90 mins (lower than Matic (53)) this shows that he has a lot of composure and at minimum a short ranged passing ability, I can't really think of a stat which suggests strength but with a tackling success rate of above 70% (slightly less than Matic (74%)) he isn't bad at tackling and with 2.1 interceptions a game (higher than Matic (2)) he does win the ball back for Chelsea showing a decent contribution to the team stat wise. Yes he isn't outstanding going forward and isn't even as good as Matic in that regard and other midifelders out there will contribute far better in this regard but he is definitely a good DM and has been throughout his career.

Edited November 4, 201510 yr by PedroMendez

My point being, what he can do , whatever his qualities are.. A) I think there are players out there who can do that PLUS a whole lot more, B) it's just not Chelsea standard,

I don't disagree, there are better defensive midfielders than Mikel, however to say that he offers nothing, I can't agree with that. I think he has offered something over the years and if we were interested in selling him, though I don't think we have been, I think there would have been and there are still clubs that would happily take him.

Edited November 4, 201510 yr by Floyd25

What he said was Mikel has Composure and Strength and that he was pretty good in the biggest game of his Chelsea career, not that he only show strength and composure in this game.

Mikel does possess Composure and strength and I understand if people are frustrated with his (lack of) forward thinking play but that doesn't instantly make him bad at everything as some people are trying to make out. He is a solid DM and people should give him credit for this.

Since the start of the 2009/2010 season so just over 6 years Mikel has played over 11500 minutes (182 appearances out of an estimate 286) for Chelsea in the BPL CL and EL so important games so for me that's more than just a bench warmer especially when you consider injuries and AFCON. In those games he has been dispossessed on average a measely 1.1 times per 90 mins (less than Matic (1.2)) as well as a passing success rate close to 90% (higher than matic (86)) from around 47 passes per 90 mins (lower than Matic (53)) this shows that he has a lot of composure and at minimum a short ranged passing ability, I can't really think of a stat which suggests strength but with a tackling success rate of above 70% (slightly less than Matic (74%)) he isn't bad at tackling and with 2.1 interceptions a game (higher than Matic (2)) he does win the ball back for Chelsea showing a decent contribution to the team stat wise. Yes he isn't outstanding going forward and isn't even as good as Matic in that regard and other midifelders out there will contribute far better in this regard but he is definitely a good DM and has been throughout his career.

I'm not frustrated by his lack of forward thinking play.  My original comment was that he is poor as a defensive midfielder.

Since the start of 2009/2010 he has 11500 minutes.  Les than half the 25740 minutes on offer.  That's a bench warmer for mine.

I'm not a big stat man, and they certainly don't lie but they don't tell the whole truth.  I base my opinion on the games I have seen since he came to Chelsea, so I can't really play ball with you on that one but here are some notes.

Dispossessed 1.1 times per 90 minutes: How catastrophic have these dispossessions been? Have they lead to a chance?  Have they changed the tide of the game?  Impossible to answer, but my feeling is when he does lose it, it is are far more crucial than when anyone does.

Passing success rate 90%: So many of his passes are short, backwards, sideways, not under pressure.  How many have saved us from being in a tough position?  Again quite hard to answer and it's just what I've seen, they seem to be nothing passes.

I never see him break up play, I never see him cut out a threatening pass, I simply never see him do anything.  I was never comparing him to Matic, but for the sake of it, I've never seen Mikel play anywhere near the level Matic did last year.  For what ever the stats say, can you deny that Matic was a beast last season?  Interceptions, blocks, tackles, composure, strength, passing, generall football smarts, beating a man, saving us on the break, protecting the defenders, scoring a goal or two.  He was a beast.

Mikel does not do one of those things as good as Matic.

 

And before the thread police come flying in, when I say never, I am exaggerating the fact.

I have seen him play a forward pass, I have seen him make a tackle, I have seen him block, I have seen his assist against Everton...  But these are rare, a minority, and not of Chelsea standard.

Mikels biggest problem through out his career is a mental issue. Maybe it was because he was surrounded by the likes of lampard, Makelele, Ballack, and essien, but he rarely takes responsibility, too often he gets caught in possession because he doesn't know what's going on around him, when he was younger, he got away with it to an extent because of the quality around him.

Some players are inspired by playing with world class players, others shrink into there shells, mikel was in the second category.

He is still capable of pulling out a good performance, and he is a decent squad player, certainly not irreplaceable though.

I like the fact he has been here for so long and has certainly contributed, if not shined. I would be sad if he left, but we could do better.

I wasn't saying he was as good as Matic in my eye's he isn't any where near Matic, who is great defensively, more dominant defensively than Mikel, but he can also burst forwards and add a little bit of a threat to the opposition, which Mikel hasn't really ever done for us. Matic was being used as a yard stick to add some comparison for the stats to give them a little bit more context. 

I also wouldn't mind if we moved Mikel on (this is one of the first thing i do on FM btw) as he is at the moment is just a squad player and there are many better players out there or better prospects if you want to bring in youth. I was just merely stating that he isn't as bad as some people are making out and is a very solid defensive midfielder and IMO could have been a first team player at most top flight clubs his whole career baring say the top 20 teams in the world.

Yes stats don't tell the whole story and they tend to need a lot of context to be meaningful, (as you pointed out where you get dispossessed etc matter however that would be a lot more difficult to find out). I was simply using the stats to add a bit of insight, and considering in your argument you stated 'I would say they need to win at least 7 out of 10 strength battles to accurately say they are strong?' i thought the use of statistics would be appropriate.

Also to play 50% of the minutes that you are eligible for makes you more than a bench warmer in my eyes, especially in a team with quite a good injury record. but that's my opinion.

If you truly believe Mikel is an awful footballer who has no ability I will be dumb founded and a lot of Managers, Coaches, Scouts and Board members must have cause you a lot of worry over the years. 

Edited November 4, 201510 yr by PedroMendez

I was never comparing him to Matic, but for the sake of it, I've never seen Mikel play anywhere near the level Matic did last year.  For what ever the stats say, can you deny that Matic was a beast last season?  Interceptions, blocks, tackles, composure, strength, passing, generall football smarts, beating a man, saving us on the break, protecting the defenders, scoring a goal or two.  He was a beast.

 

 

That sums it up perfectly for me. The stats can say this and that but can often be pretty meaningless. Mikel has never reached the sort of level Matic was at last season - everyone was raving about him, some claiming he was our most important player and some even saying he was better than Toure and Makalele.

Mikels biggest problem through out his career is a mental issue. Maybe it was because he was surrounded by the likes of lampard, Makelele, Ballack, and essien, but he rarely takes responsibility, too often he gets caught in possession because he doesn't know what's going on around him, when he was younger, he got away with it to an extent because of the quality around him.

Some players are inspired by playing with world class players, others shrink into there shells, mikel was in the second category.

He is still capable of pulling out a good performance, and he is a decent squad player, certainly not irreplaceable though.

I like the fact he has been here for so long and has certainly contributed, if not shined. I would be sad if he left, but we could do better.

I think we played him out of position all these years. He plays much further forward for Nigeria and always turns up for them.

Hopefully we dont make RLC into a DM as we've done with Mikel

I think we played him out of position all these years. He plays much further forward for Nigeria and always turns up for them.

Hopefully we dont make RLC into a DM as we've done with Mikel

I don't think it matters tbh. He doesn't take games by the scruff of the neck, and he never will do.

He should be a stand out player for Nigeria, they play most of there games against very poor sides.

Mikel to score tonight.

I agree with what many have touched on. Mikel has all the physical attributes to be top notch inn his position but he lacks that mentality, that drive, that aggressiveness. That vibrant menacing energy is the main difference between a top Mikel and a top Matic, to me.....and of course the forward passes and drives, which Mikel is capable of its just his mentality/drive again.