On the contrary, Mikel is important (not on the level of Terry or Ivanovic but still) at defending set pieces (less so at attacking set pieces although under Mourinho he has generally been in and around the box for free kicks and corners). Defending set pieces is as much about positioning as it is about heading ability, height or athleticism, something Mikel has proven time and again that he is remarkably good at.

Can't agree with that at all.

I know you have been a defender of Mikel for a long time on here so we are never going to agree on him.

I hope he is sold asap and we can bring in someone who can do a job in the middle of the park instead of the minimal impact Mikel gives us.

I don't blame him as a player though, it's not his fault but he really shouldn't be here given he offers so little to us.

 

#973079West Ham vs Chelsea (PL) 04/03/2015 KO: 19:45 GMT

 Posted by croydonblue on 05 March 2015 - 10:32 AM in Chelsea Match Chat

Nibs, on 05 Mar 2015 - 08:05 AM, said:

Don't get paranoid - it isn't just US!!

 

West Ham are a decent side - especially at home. They might not have showed that against Palace but they have beaten City and Liverpool this season. It was never going to be an easy game. They are now one of many sides that play better against the bigger teams. It won't happen every match, but sides like West Ham, Villa, Everton, Newcastle - they seem to perform better when playing the big teams.

We used to do it back in the '80's!!

if we play like that against p.s.g, we'll be going out on away goals. ibrahimovic and  cavani  won't miss free headers  or chances like wet spam did last night. 

i hate to say i told you so! 

I know you have been a defender of Mikel for a long time on here so we are never going to agree on him.

 

Yeah, he is undoubtedly an incredibly divisive player which generally leads to progressively lengthier and lengthier arguments with both sides of the debate becoming increasingly entrenched with little middle ground to be had.

 

That said, I do think that if you took the best parts of Mikel and Ramires and combined them into one super-player, that player would probably be Michael Essien.

JT has had a pop back at hypocrisy of souness and carragher, and defended cfc actions last night against all the bs from everyone...good to see...wished he'd defended that corner as well though!

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/chelsea-captain-john-terry-hits-back-after-zlatan-ibrahimovic-brands-blues-babies-10103249.html

Yeah, he is undoubtedly an incredibly divisive player which generally leads to progressively lengthier and lengthier arguments with both sides of the debate becoming increasingly entrenched with little middle ground to be had.

 

That said, I do think that if you took the best parts of Mikel and Ramires and combined them into one super-player, that player would probably be Michael Essien.

 

 

Michael Essien. Nows theres a name. My word what a difference  he in his prime wouldve made last night. It wasnt so long ago Essien and Ballack were utterly dominating games like last night.

 

Was a shocker from minute 1 to minute 120 i thought. On and off the pitch. I thought PSG fans and players simply wanted it more than we did last night.

 

Whilst i obviously want us to win everything, normally im not to fussed about exiting the CL but it did hurt a little last night. At least against Athletico last year we could say we tried but were beaten by the better team. Last night was just limp and meek. I mean, that midfield...Furthermore Jose has got to look at how he approaches these games. Same old story.

 

Onwards and upwards. Utterley no excuses for the League now. Massive game Sunday.

Edited March 12, 201511 yr by bjd

That's just his celebration, there was nothing special about it as far as luiz celebrations go. Guys emotional ofc he was gonna celebrate and I wouldn't begrudge their fans a luiz celebration either. Loved it every time he wheeled off after scoring for us.

I don't have a problem with the celebration itself. Just don't come out before the game saying how much you love Chelsea and that you won't celebrate, and if you do then happen to celebrate, don't pretend to come over and be all humble in front of us.

Not enough men in the Chelsea team! Compare the team back in 04 and 05, full of proper battle hardened men, not boys

Just don't come out before the game saying how much you love Chelsea and that you won't celebrate

 

Did he do this ? 

Michael Essien. Nows theres a name. My word what a difference he in his prime wouldve made last night. It wasnt so long ago Essien and Ballack were utterly dominating games like last night.

Was a shocker from minute 1 to minute 120 i thought. On and off the pitch. I thought PSG fans and players simply wanted it more than we did last night.

Whilst i obviously want us to win everything, normally im not to fussed about exiting the CL but it did hurt a little last night. At least against Athletico last year we could say we tried but were beaten by the better team. Last night was just limp and meek. I mean, that midfield...Furthermore Jose has got to look at how he approaches these games. Same old story.

Onwards and upwards. Utterley no excuses for the League now. Massive game Sunday.

Good to see you posting mate.

I said a while back if there's one player we need it's the Michael Essien of old.

Did he do this ? 

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/02/17/luiz-wont-celebrate-if-he-scores-against-chelsea

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/31845052

I think everything there is to say about last nights performance has been said on here so I won't bother repeating it. Depressing to watch and I hope it's never repeated again.

 

What has been quite amusing to watch is the bitch fit people in the media and of course rival fans have been having about our players' reaction to the Zlatan/Oscar incident. When that tackle first happened, it looked horrific and I thought it was a straight red. I can see exactly why the defence ran over to the ref straight away as from behind it would have looked worse. The replay of course showed it was never a red card and Zlatan was wrongly sent to the stands, however the only person deserving of any criticism for Chelsea is Oscar for acting like he'd had his foot amputated.

 

Funny thing is, this whole players surrounding the ref thing has been happening for years. Since I can remember in fact. Bottom line is it shouldn't happen, but the outrage from last nights incident is unbelievable.

Edited March 12, 201511 yr by 1905.

Chelsea did not have the balance right and were too easy to out-fox. The formation is good in games Chelsea dominate but at times it doesn’t work quite so well.

Nemanja Matc is almost flawless as the most defensive midfielder but with Cesc Fabregas next to him and Oscar in front of him it doesn’t always work. The two latter players have tailed off somewhat and this is telling. Ramires is also not a good back-up for any player listed. Chelsea need to go out in the summer and sign a great midfielder who is tailor made to this two man pivot. They also need to adapt and probably play Fabregas as a no.10, not as a no.4.

Fabregas moves out of the two man pivot too much and also isn’t that mobile to chase and press (this has been compounded by clear fatigue in his game since January). Thus, giving Matic a new partner and pushing Fabregas forward might be the solution. Fabregas can then drop into the centre of the midfield to make it a midfield trio. Oscar could be rotated in and out. The trio of Fabregas-Matic-Oscar is just not really working.

In recent weeks the midfield battle has been one Chelsea have been losing. Despite a lot of expensive talent, they haven’t been bossing games, they’ve been second best in this area. As noted Fabregas’ decline has been a huge factor in this. It’s not so much the 4-2-3-1 as a system that is to blame but more the personnel. Chelsea don’t have any specialist midfielders for the two man pivot barring Matic. They also lack the control over games. This is a concern and Jose Mourinho might need to start transitioning to a new system, perhaps one that involves Fabregas a hybrid between a no.10 and a no.8, with a new partner for Matic. For now this lack of control cost Chelsea in Europe.

How very cheery, I prefer to follow JT's stance.

From the game yesterday:

 

1. Costa needs to relax a bit. Ruffling the feathers of other players is good at times but sometimes he needs to just focus on himself and scoring goals. 

 

2. I don't like some of the nonsense I saw from Chelsea players yesterday. Oscar had a shocker and mainly because he was too busy faking injury and committing senseless fouls. Even Hazard did a lot of acting and rolling around yesterday for what were very soft fouls.

 

3. We were fortunate to have Ibra sent off and rather than keep our heads and finish the game off calmly we did exactly the thing PSG needed us to do which is to get involved in every possible argument and drama we could. They should have been focused on seeing off PSG and ignoring their nonsense. After the red card PSG players lost their heads (Veratti crazy tackles - should have seen 2 yellows) rather we joined them. 

 

4. We deserved to lose this because you need to understand that there comes a time when you need to have the ball, possess it and just kill time. Chelsea doesn't have that ability, its either attack all out or defend all out and that is dangerous in a CL game with aggregate. 

 

5. On top of that they have 10 men and how many times did we pin them in their third and circulate the ball? Rather they get time in our third and get corners out of it. We should have taken advantage of them not having Veratti and Matuidi in the game and we did not. 

 

6. You cannot always sit back when you have a lead. Chelsea is playing way too negative once they have a lead. The 1-0 win vs West Ham was a good example of that. They came inches away from dropping two points multiple times in that game all because they don't want to dictate the game. 

 

 

General points:

 

Hazard needs to play behind Costa. He is too good of a player to be always coming from the flank and having to take on 2 or 3 players before he can reach the goal. Hazard needs to be given a free role to go anywhere and pick up the ball. PSG contained him with Marquinhos and Thiago Silva keeping him outside. If Hazard plays through the middle more that double team is much harder to execute and he will get into the box more, get more penalties, more fouls and more goal scoring opportunities. Hazard also needs to be more selfish and try going on more mazy runs. He will lose it more but he will also unsettle defenders and create problems.

 

That being said we need a true left sided winger. Maybe Salah, maybe Cuadrado. But someone has to pose a danger. Right now it is all too focused on Hazard. 

 

Ramires has too many limitations. He can't pass, his first touch is hard, and he doesn't have a presence when he plays in the holding midfield role. He just seems to be all over the place and he leaves gaps around him. Fabregas should ALWAYS play beside Matic. We need another dominant central player (Loftus-Cheek? Pogba?) that can help out in the event you want to move Fabregas further forward.

Edited March 12, 201511 yr by Saaladin

I stayed off this thread last night for my own good.

 

Now that the dust has somewhat settled... Yesterday was f**king disgraceful. Absolutely disgraceful. I watched this game in a pub packed with Chelsea supporters and I honestly lost count how many times I heard "who the hell is playing with ten men again?" from an increasingly irate audience. Ibra's red card was never a red card and our players embarrassed us with their reaction to it. Diego Costa on the other hand deserved to get sent off and if the referee had seen his shove off the ball he would have rightly been so. Mourinho got it horribly wrong last night and still has the f**king nerve to say that "we played to win". Bullsh*t. Utter f**king bullsh*t. We played to grind out a 0-0, was clear as day. You could see that even more-so when Ibra went off and we remained in a defensive line-up. Hell, Costa went over to the dugout twice to ask for instructions as it was clear that we hadn't prepared for such a scenario as... you know... going for the f**king win. As soon as David Luiz scored and we were heading to extra time I turned to the guys next to me and said "we're going to lose this in extra time", to which they all agreed.

 

Defensive tactics against a PSG side down to ten men, AT HOME, is f**king disgraceful. Do not even try to defend Mourinho on this, that was shameful. Roman did not look happy at all, and rightly so.

 

We deserved to go out.  

 

Jose MUST win the league now or I am pretty sure that Roman is going to wield the axe.

Edited March 12, 201511 yr by Izanagi

I think Jose made a mistake taking off Ramires for Drogba for the 30 mins of extra time.

 

------------------------Zouma

---Willian-------Fabergas-------Hazard

-----------Drogba-----------Costa

 

Maybe it would of been better to leave Ramires on with Zouma, take off Fabergas, move Hazard to the middle, and bring Remy on down the left.

 

------------------------Zouma

-------------------Ramires

---Willian-------Hazard---------Remy

----------------------Costa

I stayed off this thread last night for my own good.

 

Now that the dust has somewhat settled... Yesterday was f**king disgraceful. Absolutely disgraceful. I watched this game in a pub packed with Chelsea supporters and I honestly lost count how many times I heard "who the hell is playing with ten men again?" from an increasingly irate audience. Ibra's red card was never a red card and our players embarrassed us with their reaction to it. Diego Costa on the other hand deserved to get sent off and if the referee had seen his shove off the ball he would have rightly been so. Mourinho got it horribly wrong last night and still has the f**king nerve to say that "we played to win". Bullsh*t. Utter f**king bullsh*t. We played to grind out a 0-0, was clear as day. You could see that even more-so when Ibra went off and we remained in a defensive line-up. Hell, Costa went over to the dugout twice to ask for instructions as it was clear that we hadn't prepared for such a scenario as... you know... going for the f**king win. As soon as David Luiz scored and we were heading to extra time I turned to the guys next to me and said "we're going to lose this in extra time", to which they all agreed.

 

Defensive tactics against a PSG side down to ten men, AT HOME, is f**king disgraceful. Do not even try to defend Mourinho on this, that was shameful. Roman did not look happy at all, and rightly so.

 

We deserved to go out.  

 

Jose MUST win the league now or I am pretty sure that Roman is going to wield the axe.

Agree with 99% of that, but i don't think Roman will wield the axe, it would just be groundhog day and i prefer to think he has learned from his mistake last time after a humiliating CL exit.

I could be in a tiny minority, but I disagree that Ibra's was 'never a red'. He jumped into the challenge with both feet off the ground, which is worthy of a red, even if he didn't go in two footed or studs up. He caught Oscar hard on the lower leg and could definitely have done him a serious injury. Yes, it was perhaps harsh, but it was an understandable red in my view, and itr was noting to do with our player's haranguing the ref. He'd made his mind up already.

 

As for the reaction of our players....Just the other week, when Barnes nearly broke Matic's leg, the media went on about how none of our players reacted, so the ref was justified in ignoring it. Should they have said and done nothing again?

There were aspects of both teams behaviour last night that could be deemed unsavoury or savvy, whichever way suits the argument. The sh*tstorm that had developed since really is remarkable given its historical nature in Europe. The pundits who I generally have good time for Carragher and Souness have really got it wrong IMHO, Gary Neville on the other hand has it spot on.

Its part of the game, rightly or wrongly, but why should we watch other teams gain an advantage while we gallantly stand by and do the right thing. I don't like to see it but f**k that if its being let go on, then I have no issue. The biggest issue I have is how quickly and vociferously the media, pundits and the like have layed into the club like its the first time they have seen it, let alone the fact that they themselves have spearheaded the chase on the ref during their own playing days.

Bad night for the team exacerbated by the media's willingness and joy at putting the boot in.

Imo, this thread has seen an impressively level-headed debate. Fair play to all involved.

Without reading back 84 pages, has anyone commented on how terrible our defence was to crosses into the box over both legs. Three goals conceded in the air and quite a lot of near misses, they won nearly everything or so it seemed.

I said to my mate when Jose brought Zouma on it was five minutes to early, Matic was limping a bit when he went off but I haven't heard he was injured, but that height in the box cost us. My mate said to me it's good to have Drogba defending at corners, lo and behold they score form it.

One of those nights, a painful lesson, for once Jose was out coached by Blanc and the whole PSG team were well deserved of the win.

What's clear it a couple of our players are not up to it, or are being coached incorrectly. The right flank is predictable and slows everything down, Hazard should be told he's allowed to run into the box rather than run along the length of the 18 yard box and then cut back.

I could be in a tiny minority, but I disagree that Ibra's was 'never a red'. He jumped into the challenge with both feet off the ground, which is worthy of a red, even if he didn't go in two footed or studs up. He caught Oscar hard on the lower leg and could definitely have done him a serious injury. Yes, it was perhaps harsh, but it was an understandable red in my view, and itr was noting to do with our player's haranguing the ref. He'd made his mind up already.

 

Oscar came in worse. Both feet off the ground and studs showing.

 

What got us that card was Oscars and Ibras reactions. Oscar acted like a right tit, while Ibra started apologizing. If it were the other way around, Oscar wouldve been the one sent off.

I could be in a tiny minority, but I disagree that Ibra's was 'never a red'. He jumped into the challenge with both feet off the ground, which is worthy of a red, even if he didn't go in two footed or studs up. He caught Oscar hard on the lower leg and could definitely have done him a serious injury. Yes, it was perhaps harsh, but it was an understandable red in my view, and itr was noting to do with our player's haranguing the ref. He'd made his mind up already.

As for the reaction of our players....Just the other week, when Barnes nearly broke Matic's leg, the media went on about how none of our players reacted, so the ref was justified in ignoring it. Should they have said and done nothing again?

I had the same feeling when I saw the challenge. The ref was harsh to give a red but it was a red card offense.

Oscar came in worse. Both feet off the ground and studs showing.

What got us that card was Oscars and Ibras reactions. Oscar acted like a right tit, while Ibra started apologizing. If it were the other way around, Oscar wouldve been the one sent off.

Oscar never had 2 feet off the ground. His leading leg was slightly high and yes studs showing but not two footed. Ibra left the ground and paid the price. Although I don't think it was a sending off if you leave the ground with both feet you are giving the ref a decision to make.

Oscar never had 2 feet off the ground. His leading leg was slightly high and yes studs showing but not two footed. Ibra left the ground and paid the price. Although I don't think it was a sending off if you leave the ground with both feet you are giving the ref a decision to make.

 

The crucial thing you missed out was that Oscar was the ball winner, whilst Zlatan was nowhere near the ball.