Davey, I agree with your post, especially regarding the Eva incident, but I'm not so sure about the kids thing. I'm all for sticking with Zouma as a regular starter but playing him plus the other four you named together would leave us even weaker than we are now. We saw how Kenedy looked hopeless playing in the mess that was Goodison Park. Zouma and one other is enough for me for now as we need the Oscars and Willans to get us back to some semblance of order and then we can start giving the other youngsters more game time.

Another thing with the youngsters, regardless of our opinions, Jose only seems to rate Kenedy as ready to contribute anything at this time. Mikel's return over RLC starting on Saturday tells us where he is in the pecking order right now. Maybe he's not yet changed Jose's opinion since that post season game in Australia.

 

Yup, I agree with you about fielding all of them, it may be a bit early to have Kenedy or Traore starting in crucial league fixtures, but I think the time has come for RLC to be given a chance alongside Matic and Baba to come in at LB to put Ivan out of his misery. We could hardly be doing any worse.

 

If Ivan isn't dropped that sends a very bad message to the rest of the squad. It's favouritism basically, regardless of form. It's an unfair selection policy and it will be noted amongst the players. As I said with Begovic, he came in against City, he was our best player, he was immediately dropped for Courtois, who is struggling. How does that motivate Begovic? I'm sorry, you pick players on merit, no matter their reputation or what they've done for you in the past. Jose's always been good at that.

 

I worry about RLC, really worry. He needs to play at this stage of his career and it doesn't look like Jose's going to give him too many chances. Let's face facts, if we had signed Pogba, RLC would be on loan right now. Furthermore, if he does play, I worry he will be asked to play too conservative, which won't help with his development. I can't help thinking of KDB, who wanted to play with more freedom and wasn't prepared to waste time sitting on the bench. The fact he has become City's record signing compounds Jose's miserable season IMO. I don't want RLC coming back to haunt us. I've seen a bit of him at youth level, he's a really good prospect. I was dismayed when Mikel played against Everton. I cannot believe he's ahead of RLC in the pecking order and that has to stop, IMO.

 

I would like to see a bit more boldness.

 

The more that rides on a game, the more cautious Jose becomes, we've all seen that. That's my fear. We're now in trouble and I can't see Jose doing anything other than playing it safe, that's his nature, and for me, that does not bode well for the kids and that does not bode well for any hopes we have of being entertained. However I have faith he'll dig us out of this hole because he's still a brilliant manager and I hope he gets the full backing of the Bridge on Wednesday night.

Yes I agree with Davey - disappointed with Mikel selection (and Ivanovic) against Everton. As for KDB I didn't believe all the hype over his form last season but have to say when he came on on Saturday for City he was brilliant - his passing was instinctive and enterprising. nearly always looking forward. Set up a brilliant chance for Navas and had a decent effort from outside the box.

Back five of Dave, Cahill, Zouma (sweeper), Terry, Baba with Matic, Mikel and RLC sitting infront. Give RLC free license to get up to the halfway line. Ramires and Willian/Oscar as the other two mids with Remy or Falcao up top.

Boldly pursue that clean sheet.

--------------------Begovic

Dave--Cahill--Zouma--Terry---Baba-

----------Mikel-----Matic -------RLC

----------Ramires------------Oscar

-------------------Remy

----------------18 yard box------------------

Edited September 14, 201510 yr by Barry Bridges

                 Tibo

Azpi -- Cahill -- JT -- Baba

      Ramires -- Matic

Willian -- Oscar -- Hazard

                Diego

 

If the starting lineup deviates from that lineup over the course of the season I think it's unlikely we'll make top 4.

 

Hopefully we'll sign Stones, Verratti, and Bale for next season (if it means selling Hazard then so be it).

 

Fabregas/Ivanovic/Mikel are past their 'use by' date.

Edited September 14, 201510 yr by the special one

Tibo

Azpi -- Cahill -- JT -- Baba

      Ramires -- Matic

Willian -- Oscar -- Hazard

                Diego

 

If the starting lineup deviates from that lineup I think it's unlikely we'll make top 4.

Tibo out I think?

Yup, I agree with you about fielding all of them, it may be a bit early to have Kenedy or Traore starting in crucial league fixtures, but I think the time has come for RLC to be given a chance alongside Matic and Baba to come in at LB to put Ivan out of his misery. We could hardly be doing any worse.

 

If Ivan isn't dropped that sends a very bad message to the rest of the squad. It's favouritism basically, regardless of form. It's an unfair selection policy and it will be noted amongst the players. As I said with Begovic, he came in against City, he was our best player, he was immediately dropped for Courtois, who is struggling. How does that motivate Begovic? I'm sorry, you pick players on merit, no matter their reputation or what they've done for you in the past. Jose's always been good at that.

 

I worry about RLC, really worry. He needs to play at this stage of his career and it doesn't look like Jose's going to give him too many chances. Let's face facts, if we had signed Pogba, RLC would be on loan right now. Furthermore, if he does play, I worry he will be asked to play too conservative, which won't help with his development. I can't help thinking of KDB, who wanted to play with more freedom and wasn't prepared to waste time sitting on the bench. The fact he has become City's record signing compounds Jose's miserable season IMO. I don't want RLC coming back to haunt us. I've seen a bit of him at youth level, he's a really good prospect. I was dismayed when Mikel played against Everton. I cannot believe he's ahead of RLC in the pecking order and that has to stop, IMO.

 

I would like to see a bit more boldness.

 

The more that rides on a game, the more cautious Jose becomes, we've all seen that. That's my fear. We're now in trouble and I can't see Jose doing anything other than playing it safe, that's his nature, and for me, that does not bode well for the kids and that does not bode well for any hopes we have of being entertained. However I have faith he'll dig us out of this hole because he's still a brilliant manager and I hope he gets the full backing of the Bridge on Wednesday night.

 

Agree with you totally on the Eva incident. When a member of any workforce is seen to have been badly treated it tends to leave a bad mood around the place. One wonders how Hazard feels as he was the player she went onto the field for that wasn't badly injured. He won't feel great about it for sure. The club on the whole have handled the situation badly, not for the first time either. We really need to go on a PR offensive, with all employees impressed upon the importance.

As for Mikel's inclusion on Saturday, I think this was always going to happen. As quite rightly suggest the bigger the match the safer Jose goes. On the back of the Palace defeat and with little time to work on any defensive cohesion due to the international break, Jose went to tried and trusted instead of bold. It didn't work but Mikel wasn't the worst player on the pitch.RLC will be chewing at the bit to get involved, sometimes throwing a young lad into a struggling side can work, at others though it can damage their confidence if the side continues to struggle. A very fine balancing act. Not sure any of the others are really ready to be upgraded bar Zouma who is already on the managers sight.

                 Tibo

Azpi -- Cahill -- JT -- Baba

      Ramires -- Matic

Willian -- Oscar -- Hazard

                Diego

 

If the starting lineup deviates from that lineup over the course of the season I think it's unlikely we'll make top 4.

 

Hopefully we'll sign Stones, Verratti, and Bale for next season (if it means selling Hazard then so be it).

 

Fabregas/Ivanovic/Mikel are past their 'use by' date.

no pedro?

no pedro?

 

It isn't that I think he's not good enough, I just don't think he should waltz into the team at Willian's expense (assuming Oscar is fit to play at #10).

Edited September 14, 201510 yr by the special one

Agree with you totally on the Eva incident. When a member of any workforce is seen to have been badly treated it tends to leave a bad mood around the place. One wonders how Hazard feels as he was the player she went onto the field for that wasn't badly injured. He won't feel great about it for sure. The club on the whole have handled the situation badly, not for the first time either. We really need to go on a PR offensive, with all employees impressed upon the importance.

 

Agree and disagree. Agree about Eva, I think if Jose has been unfair on her (and the physio for that matter), then he has caused a totally avoidable problem for himself. He will have gone down in the players' estimation, he will have lost a bit of respect basically, that bodes ill for any gaffer. It will have created a funny atmosphere, a more tense atmosphere. It's a question of trust, and once that's eroded, very difficult to get back. Maybe that's why Jose's being loyal to underperforming players, who knows. He wants to win back a bit of that trust.

 

As for the club handling it badly, I can't agree. What could the club do? Jose chooses who sits on his bench, and that's how it should be. If he doesn't want Eva, rightly or wrongly, he doesn't want Eva. It may be a mistake, and it may harm him, but it's his call. The club interfere and we have a far bigger problem on our hands, particularly as this is Jose Mourinho we're talking about.

 

Edit: They have to let the manager get on with his job, and I'm glad we've finally learned that lesson.

Edited September 14, 201510 yr by Davey Baby

Agree and disagree. Agree about Eva, I think if Jose has been unfair on her (and the physio for that matter), then he has caused a totally avoidable problem for himself. He will have gone down in the players' estimation, he will have lost a bit of respect basically, that bodes ill for any gaffer. It will have created a funny atmosphere, a more tense atmosphere. It's a question of trust, and once that's eroded, very difficult to get back. Maybe that's why Jose's being loyal to underperforming players, who knows. He wants to win back a bit of that trust.

 

As for the club handling it badly, I can't agree. What could the club do? Jose chooses who sits on his bench, and that's how it should be. If he doesn't want Eva, rightly or wrongly, he doesn't want Eva. It may be a mistake, and it may harm him, but it's his call. The club interfere and we have a far bigger problem on our hands, particularly as this is Jose Mourinho we're talking about.

 

Edit: They have to let the manager get on with his job, and I'm glad we've finally learned that lesson.

 

I can see that point but Jose is a club employee like any other at the club. The moment he dragged this into the public domain he brought the club into disrepute and someone should have told him so  internally. He could quite easily have just issued an apology, siting pressures of the game, this would have blown straight over. If he had issues about her job previously this should have been dealt with internally as part of a personnel shuffle previous to the incident. His comments were poor and this was possibly an occasion that the FA should have been involved in the interest of general player safety ( the fact that Hazard wasn't badly injured has no bearing on this). The problem is he boxed himself into a corner and yes the club had to back him above Eva in her being then removed from the bench. For such an intelligent man he sometimes fails to engage brain before mouth.

                 Tibo

Azpi -- Cahill -- JT -- Baba

      Ramires -- Matic

Willian -- Oscar -- Hazard

                Diego

 

If the starting lineup deviates from that lineup over the course of the season I think it's unlikely we'll make top 4.

 

Hopefully we'll sign Stones, Verratti, and Bale for next season (if it means selling Hazard then so be it).

 

Fabregas/Ivanovic/Mikel are past their 'use by' date.

 

Why dont we sign messi, ronaldo and neymar while we are it.  

Why dont we sign messi, ronaldo and neymar while we are it.  

 

It may seem overly ambitious, but without the likes of Stones, Verratti and Bale we're not winning the ECL (or I'd argue, the league) anytime soon.

http://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/features/2015/9/14/4370904/everton-vs-chelsea-talking-points-analysis

 

A good read, recommended

We all knew when Jose came back that there would be good times and bad and that the good times would be very good and you just hope they outweigh the bad. Having Mourinho at the helm will always make it a rollercoaster ride and right now the wheels appear to have come off big-time.

 

Have to say I am surprised and disappointed at how much he appears to have lost it right now. When he left before my main memories of him were two matches where he totally out-coached his rivals. Firstly when his Milan side knocked us out of the CL when Ancelotti was our manager. I recall being at The Bridge that night when Mourinho masterminded Mlian to victory and he was on the sideline, giving out instructions, always moving and signalling whilst Carlo stood, hunched with his hands in his trench-coat looking a defeated man.

Then when Mourinho's Madrid team beat Fergies Man Utd and how Utd unluckily had a man sent off and whilst Fergie hesitated, wondering what to do, Mourinho was making tactical changes and in the space of minutes got the game won. What has happended to that Mourinho? I'm not seeing the forward thinking tactical genius who can influence a game with his tactical genius. I'm just seeing a stubborn guy refusing to make changes and sticking to what he sees as his tried and tested philosophy and then struggling to know what to do when that fails.

 

Whilst we struggle from ome game to the next I see other sides putting faith in new players - players I hadn't even heard of before this season. Swansea, Leicester, West Ham - they all seem to have a gem or two who haven't already done it all before and who haven't cost the earth. And then at the weekend, Utd show a bit of faith in a 19 year old (all be it one who cost a ridiculous amount) and City in an 18 year old and both get rewarded for that faith.

 

Of course we need to stick by Mourinho as despite this appalling run he remains one of the best in the business. But we need a return to the Mourinho I described above, the proactive, master tactician not the predictable ultra cautious one we have seen for too many months to mention.

Back five of Dave, Cahill, Zouma (sweeper), Terry, Baba with Matic, Mikel and RLC sitting infront. Give RLC free license to get up to the halfway line. Ramires and Willian/Oscar as the other two mids with Remy or Falcao up top.

Boldly pursue that clean sheet.

--------------------Begovic

Dave--Cahill--Zouma--Terry---Baba-

----------Mikel-----Matic -------RLC

----------Ramires------------Oscar

-------------------Remy

----------------18 yard box------------------

barrys sorted it we'll play with 12!!

Tibo out I think?

Tibo will be out for at least couple of months. He had knee surgery last week.

We all knew when Jose came back that there would be good times and bad and that the good times would be very good and you just hope they outweigh the bad. Having Mourinho at the helm will always make it a rollercoaster ride and right now the wheels appear to have come off big-time.

 

Have to say I am surprised and disappointed at how much he appears to have lost it right now. When he left before my main memories of him were two matches where he totally out-coached his rivals. Firstly when his Milan side knocked us out of the CL when Ancelotti was our manager. I recall being at The Bridge that night when Mourinho masterminded Mlian to victory and he was on the sideline, giving out instructions, always moving and signalling whilst Carlo stood, hunched with his hands in his trench-coat looking a defeated man.

Then when Mourinho's Madrid team beat Fergies Man Utd and how Utd unluckily had a man sent off and whilst Fergie hesitated, wondering what to do, Mourinho was making tactical changes and in the space of minutes got the game won. What has happended to that Mourinho? I'm not seeing the forward thinking tactical genius who can influence a game with his tactical genius. I'm just seeing a stubborn guy refusing to make changes and sticking to what he sees as his tried and tested philosophy and then struggling to know what to do when that fails.

 

Whilst we struggle from ome game to the next I see other sides putting faith in new players - players I hadn't even heard of before this season. Swansea, Leicester, West Ham - they all seem to have a gem or two who haven't already done it all before and who haven't cost the earth. And then at the weekend, Utd show a bit of faith in a 19 year old (all be it one who cost a ridiculous amount) and City in an 18 year old and both get rewarded for that faith.

 

Of course we need to stick by Mourinho as despite this appalling run he remains one of the best in the business. But we need a return to the Mourinho I described above, the proactive, master tactician not the predictable ultra cautious one we have seen for too many months to mention.

 

Good post Nibs, but to be fair to Jose, he did bring on Kenedy after 55 minutes, he just didn't get the goal like City's and Utd's substitutes.

Good post Nibs, but to be fair to Jose, he did bring on Kenedy after 55 minutes, he just didn't get the goal like City's and Utd's substitutes.

 

Yeah I know, sometimes these things work, sometimes they don't and if he had hooked Fabregas earlier and put RLC on rather than Falcao it may have worked but always easy in hindsight and all ifs & buts etc!

It may seem overly ambitious, but without the likes of Stones, Verratti and Bale we're not winning the ECL (or I'd argue, the league) anytime soon.

I dont think it is at all. Stones is a likely target next summer. PSG dont exactly need to worry about replacing players so with the right amount of money Verratti should be available. A swap of Hazard for Bale isnt very farfetched either. Sounds like a plan to me

                 Tibo

Azpi -- Cahill -- JT -- Baba

      Ramires -- Matic

Willian -- Oscar -- Hazard

                Diego

 

If the starting lineup deviates from that lineup over the course of the season I think it's unlikely we'll make top 4.

 

Hopefully we'll sign Stones, Verratti, and Bale for next season (if it means selling Hazard then so be it).

 

Fabregas/Ivanovic/Mikel are past their 'use by' date.

 

I'm surprised that you'd be willing to sell Hazard. Even though he is going through a bad patch, he is easily your best player and works very well in Mourinho's system. Buying Bale to replace him would be one step forwards and two steps back, even though Bale is obviously very good.

I'm surprised that you'd be willing to sell Hazard. Even though he is going through a bad patch, he is easily your best player and works very well in Mourinho's system. Buying Bale to replace him would be one step forwards and two steps back, even though Bale is obviously very good.

Bale and Hazard are both better at what they do than the other. We need what Bale does more than what Hazard does. Give us some pace and width and things will open up offensively for us

maybe the reason why we aren't getting the results might be that some managers should be given more credit for the way they have approached playing us. lots of you have put dave in his proper position and rahman on the left. doesn't it make sense that jose has 'conned' many with his defensive 'wrong' widemen and it has taken pelligrini to figure it out this season by putting 2 fast tricky attacking widemen. the same with palace who had plenty of pace outwide.  

Bale and Hazard are both better at what they do than the other. We need what Bale does more than what Hazard does. Give us some pace and width and things will open up offensively for us

 

Selling Hazard is a stupid idea. Shouldn't even be thought about unless he really wants to leave

I can understand Fabregas copping it for his form since January, but I can't agree that he isn't able to play in he midfield and be very, very good at it. If the isn't able to do so, how do you explain his form in the first half of last season when he was on track to smash the EPL assists record and was the frontrunner to be awarded EPL player of the season?

Jose should be trying to work out what has changed since then and be trying to get him back to that form, because when he plays like that he is the best player in the team. He shouldn't just discard him, what a waste of talent.

Edited September 15, 201510 yr by Jonty

I can understand Fabregas copping it for his form since January, but I can't agree that he isn't able to play in he midfield and be very, very good at it. If the isn't able to do so, how do you explain his form in the first half of last season when he was on track to smash the EPL assists record and was the frontrunner to be awarded EPL player of the season?

Jose should be trying to work out what has changed since then and be trying to get him back to that form, because when he plays like that he is the best player in the team. He shouldn't just discard him, what a waste of talent.

What Jose should be doing is finding a new club. He can't fix this. He never has managed a team where he has been it for the long term. He isn't a Ferguson, stay at a club a long time, manager. He assembles a team to win in the short term, but his teams can't sustain it. He isn't a build through youth guy. Chelsea need a manager that can build and sustain success. Jose is not that guy. The days of crazy spending are over and chelsea need a manager that can adapt to that. He needs to be someone that can blend youth with stars. Jose has never done that and he never will.