G3 I think my post might have got sandwiched between the handbag war?

Have you considered we may be having a few leaner years as there's a new stadium to be built ?

Mate, in that case, even more reason to promote youth and let go off players like Oscar, pedro, mikel and ivanovic. I mean what would be the cumulative wages of those 4? Atleast 20/25mil pounds, I would guess.

it is unrealistic to expect that you will get exactly what you want. and it is unrealistic to expect the team to be the finished article or for players to be at their best whilst they are still adjusting to the new manager and his style of management.

 

I don't understand how you can continue to complain about players who have already been loaned out- I get that people might be tired of oscar, pedro, mikel etc but again I have to repeat that it is early days for the squad with conte and he clearly deems them useful. perhaps it is worth backing his decisions given his record in management? or given that he's three games into his spell here? exactly how soon do you expect everything to be sorted out? once the ink had dried on his contract? that isn't realistic. 

 

I would warn strongly against looking at bayern and making a false equivalence- I would suggest you read up about perez' zidanes y pavons project before totally committing yourself to the idea that you can gut a squad of its squad players and simply replace them wholesale with youth.

 

 

just- yes of course I was responding to DF. although what I would say is that given the thinness of the squad I think at the moment it is impossible that we won't see them feature more than under jose. conte isn't fergie and has no record of actively encouraging kids into the team, but he probably is less risk averse in that aspect than jose. early days though.

On this subject I have a question.

If the majority of us, me included, accept that the era of us out-spending everyone in European football is over because our owner simply doesn't have a wallet large enough to match our major competitors when the bidding begins for the Galacticos. And we therefore need a different vision. A different plan. A plan of evolution and sustainability involving global talent spotting, cultivation and integration of a proportion of the most gifted youngsters into our first team.

The question. What would you see as concrete evidence that this happening? That a change in mindset and direction is occuring. An official statement from the club? A press conference from the manager stating this will happen? Or a limited number of youngsters being handed a starting spot in EPL matchs this season?

Personally I would see any of these as a big step in the right direction. I just don't see any sign of it happening though.

Edited August 24, 20169 yr by just

for me I'm not interested in a club or manager statement. we had that from emenalo and jose respectively in the last three years. I don't think pogba proves anything for conte- he was a once in a generation talent. when one of the kids starts appearing regularly, even off the bench, in the league. that is the sign I'm holding out for. then I will feel that player is being considered seriously as a first team player. if and when that happens I will feel like there is a bridge from the academy to the first team.

On this subject I have a question.

If the majority of us, me included, accept that the era of us out-spending everyone in European football is over because our owner simply doesn't have a wallet large enough to match our major competitors when the bidding begins for the Galacticos. And we therefore need a different vision. A different plan. A plan of evolution and sustainability involving global talent spotting, cultivation and integration of a proportion of the most gifted youngsters into our first team.

The question. What would you see as concrete evidence that this happening? That a change in mindset and direction is occuring. An official statement from the club? A press conference from the manager stating this will happen? Or a limited number of youngsters being handed a starting spot in EPL matchs this season?

Personally I would see any of these as a big step in the right direction. I just don't see any sign of it happening though.

Brilliantly put.

And this is the radical change I was talking about, to some extent.

I'd say our leaders (roman, buck, granovskaia, emenalo...) are somewhat conservative. They look at what others do but don't implement new things very quickly or have new groundbreaking ideas for the club. This shows in our squad.

The only dispensable thing in our football is the manager. That is from Russian sports culture.

Some/many criticize our loan-system however that is probably the biggest difference between us and other clubs and I see that being an Emenalo special.

My point is we don't take many risks we never have a massive clearout and we don't trust the youngsters. That culture comes from the top and shows in the squad.

it is unrealistic to expect that you will get exactly what you want. and it is unrealistic to expect the team to be the finished article or for players to be at their best whilst they are still adjusting to the new manager and his style of management.

 

I don't understand how you can continue to complain about players who have already been loaned out- I get that people might be tired of oscar, pedro, mikel etc but again I have to repeat that it is early days for the squad with conte and he clearly deems them useful. perhaps it is worth backing his decisions given his record in management? or given that he's three games into his spell here? exactly how soon do you expect everything to be sorted out? once the ink had dried on his contract? that isn't realistic. 

 

I would warn strongly against looking at bayern and making a false equivalence- I would suggest you read up about perez' zidanes y pavons project before totally committing yourself to the idea that you can gut a squad of its squad players and simply replace them wholesale with youth.

 

 

just- yes of course I was responding to DF. although what I would say is that given the thinness of the squad I think at the moment it is impossible that we won't see them feature more than under jose. conte isn't fergie and has no record of actively encouraging kids into the team, but he probably is less risk averse in that aspect than jose. early days though.

 

Fair enough, that I should not expect everything I want. But then what about atleast seeing the right indications and trends? I see none of it, I just see the same ols mistakes being made again. Our players are ALWAYS under a new coach and new management. The max stability we have got was under Jose for 3 and 2 years and thats it. So i dont know how that point counts.

 

Its not "early" days. Its been 4 years. And yes its early days for conte, then it will be early days for someone else. Thats how oscar has been ripping us off for 4 years. Its like people saying that arsenal fans are spoilt for saying wenger out after 2 matches. Its not 2 matches mate, its 12/13 years. Similarly its been 4 years of the same drivel with oscar. He will again do "just enough" to be included in next season and people will again say, I expect oscar to do good this season. Sorry, he aint coming good. How was jose's record in management? He trusted oscar OVER mata and KDB. Again, i find this argument very vague and irritating, that a fan should not doubt a manager because a manager knows the best. No point in discussion then.

 

Fair enough about Bayern. But I dont need to look at them. I would simply look at spurs and what Poch has done with them. Spurs have flown completely under the radar but lets not forget how close they came to winning the league with such a young squad. 

Lastly, I am not asking for any youth players to be given a shot. Players like Nat, RLC, Baker, Ake, Andreas have a lot of potential. Special mention to Musonda who seems to be on a different level altogether. These players need to be given priority over players who are clearly dragging us down financially and quality-wise.

I'm sorry, you can't just lump a new manager in with the old ones just because it is convenient for your argument.

Conte has been manager for three games.

I'd say our leaders (roman, buck, granovskaia, emenalo...) are somewhat conservative. They look at what others do but don't implement new things very quickly or have new groundbreaking ideas for the club. This shows in our squad.

The only dispensable thing in our football is the manager. That is from Russian sports culture.

Some/many criticize our loan-system however that is probably the biggest difference between us and other clubs and I see that being an Emenalo special.

My point is we don't take many risks we never have a massive clearout and we don't trust the youngsters. That culture comes from the top and shows in the squad.

Exactly. 

The above post by Evissy is the reason I can.

Its not surprising that every manager has followed the same trend.

Dont understand why people put their noses where it dont belong.

 

Why doesn't that surprise me...

for me I'm not interested in a club or manager statement. we had that from emenalo and jose respectively in the last three years. I don't think pogba proves anything for conte- he was a once in a generation talent. when one of the kids starts appearing regularly, even off the bench, in the league. that is the sign I'm holding out for. then I will feel that player is being considered seriously as a first team player. if and when that happens I will feel like there is a bridge from the academy to the first team.

 

Good points Just and G4.

 

I am as frustrated as any CFC fan at our lack of faith in promoting the youth and sympathize to some degree with didierforever.

 

Looking at it objectively, I think it comes down to what we all know - for over a decade we have been seen as one of the top clubs with lots of success and trophies and "you don't win trophies with kids" so we have continued to try and buy the finished article rather than gamble on any of our promising youngsters. As we keep saying - short-term rather than long-term strategy.

 

But perhaps NOW is the time for that to change but it brings me to another point. We all know and agree that we have had some fantastic youth teams in recent years - the trophies back that up. But as good as the teams have been, have there been any truly outstanding individuals? We've all (and I'm more guilty than anyone) got carried away with a number of players................

 

Kakuta, Chalobah, Clifford, Kane, Tore, McEachran, Boga, Swift, Sala, Piazon, Bruma, RLC, Baker, Solanke, Abraham, Christensen, Musonda......etc etc

 

the list goes on and I've no doubt missed a fair few but it will be interesting to see in a few seasons if any of these make it to the very top. No doubt that all will make a career in the game at certain levels but will any go on to be THE ONE? So although the success in the Youth Cup and Europe has been great, really we would have been better off not having a great academy full of good players but having an okay academy with ONE EXCEPTIONAL PLAYER who goes straight into the first team squad without going on umpteen loans and within a short time has become a permanent fixture.

 

We live in hope.

Edited August 25, 20169 yr by Nibs

Why doesn't that surprise me...

And again. 

All busybodies.

And again. 

All busybodies.

 

How dare someone respond to you on a public forum without a formal invitation. 

 

The cheek of it!

How dare someone respond to you on a public forum without a formal invitation.

The cheek of it!

Great. Go about replying and posting to every post on this forum. Even when it clearly was a discussion between 2 people and your comment has added nothing of value to the discussion.

Etiquettes. Well.

Great. Go about replying and posting to every post on this forum. Even when it clearly was a discussion between 2 people and your comment has added nothing of value to the discussion.

Etiquettes. Well.

 

Not trying to stoke things up but if you really want to have a one on one conversation perhaps mailing the person in question might help keep your conversation private. There is literally not an ounce of sarcasm in this post, just a suggestion...

http://www.theshedend.com/topic/29743-ignore-list/#entry1212681

Not trying to stoke things up but if you really want to have a one on one conversation perhaps mailing the person in question might help keep your conversation private. There is literally not an ounce of sarcasm in this post, just a suggestion...

You beat me to it, you can't have a one on one chat in an open forum and complain that people are chiming in

Edited August 25, 20169 yr by Bobbywoodhogan

You beat me to it, you can't have a one on one chat in an open forum and complain that people are chiming in

 

How dare you! That post was a private conversation between me and every other member of the forum but you! 

Edited August 25, 20169 yr by MissouriBlue

I actually hold out more hope than ever that we will see a Youth Squad player make the ranks this year.

I think the timing is right.  Indications are that we won't be spending in the same leagues as City or Utd.  I think we'll be looking more at the Kante's of the world rather than the Pogba's.  It's why I refuse to believe that Lukaku was ever a realistic target, and why I also don't think we'll go for KK.

 

I think we'll try and be more astute with signings, but spend big only when very necesary (which actually brings KK back into the picture, I suppose).  I also think that, with the current woes of some of the first teamers - in particular, Matic - that we'll see their spots being contested more.  Conte viewing RLC as more of a striker makes me feel that versatility adds to his chances.

 

We are never going to see full scale changes.  Oscar and Mikel have been constantly picked, regardless of manager.  They aren't the most exciting players, granted, but they obviously "do a job" well enough that a manager has confidence that they'll be able to carry out his plan.

 

I think CHalobah had circumstance go against him this past game.  He was being readied to come on up until the point Aina was injured.  Then that forced Terry on.  I also think at that point we were being clawed back and were 3-2 against Bristol Rovers.  I can fully understand how a coach, who claims he hardly sleeps even when they win, wouldn't be betting his rest on Chalobah at that point.

I actually hold out more hope than ever that we will see a Youth Squad player make the ranks this year.

I think the timing is right. Indications are that we won't be spending in the same leagues as City or Utd. I think we'll be looking more at the Kante's of the world rather than the Pogba's. It's why I refuse to believe that Lukaku was ever a realistic target, and why I also don't think we'll go for KK.

I think we'll try and be more astute with signings, but spend big only when very necesary (which actually brings KK back into the picture, I suppose). I also think that, with the current woes of some of the first teamers - in particular, Matic - that we'll see their spots being contested more. Conte viewing RLC as more of a striker makes me feel that versatility adds to his chances.

We are never going to see full scale changes. Oscar and Mikel have been constantly picked, regardless of manager. They aren't the most exciting players, granted, but they obviously "do a job" well enough that a manager has confidence that they'll be able to carry out his plan.

I think CHalobah had circumstance go against him this past game. He was being readied to come on up until the point Aina was injured. Then that forced Terry on. I also think at that point we were being clawed back and were 3-2 against Bristol Rovers. I can fully understand how a coach, who claims he hardly sleeps even when they win, wouldn't be betting his rest on Chalobah at that point.

Agreed mate. Makes you wonder if we're continuing on our journey as a club from upstarts with cash to burn to a more 'established' (in terms of how others perceive us) and youth promoting/grafting player buying type club.

I was about to note that I had already taken care of the pointless bickering issue, in perhaps my finest hour on the forum, but some protocol-loving moderator probably trying to earn their stripes (especially poignant considering I am surely the Shed End's equivalent of Jack Bauer) has deleted it.

 

http://www.theshedend.com/topic/27856-the-pointless-bickering-thread

You beat me to it, you can't have a one on one chat in an open forum and complain that people are chiming in

You seem to complain when other's have chimed in though?

Anyway, back to the theme of the topic.  Does everyone think Conte is wearing a hair piece?