Jose's third season with us was terrible, but his first two seasons were terrific in my opinion. There's a revisionist view of his second stint that has developed and continued to perpetuate itself over time.

I didn't hear anyone complaining about him before the start of the 2015-2016 season and I'm forever grateful for the two trophies he delivered to us in his second stint. While nowhere near as memorable and impressive as his first stint, I think there was far more good than bad in his second stint.

It just ended terribly and that's unfortunately what will he be remembered for rather than what he achieved with us seven months earlier.

39 minutes ago, Jezz said:

I didn't hear anyone complaining about him before the start of the 2015-2016 season

I was of course happy that we won the league in his 2nd stint, but I was far from happy with the transfers in and out and the style of football we were playing at the time. So, I personally was complaining.

Just now, Zeta Orionis said:

I was of course happy that we won the league in his 2nd stint, but I was far from happy with the transfers in and out and the style of football we were playing at the time. So, I personally was complaining.

The first sign of trouble I suspect was the lack of transfer activity in that off-season window and there was cause for concern from some, but it completely blew up in a way no one had anticipated.

47 minutes ago, Jezz said:

The first sign of trouble I suspect was the lack of transfer activity in that off-season window and there was cause for concern from some, but it completely blew up in a way no one had anticipated.

You obviously hadn't read any of my posts over the last 5-6 years then. Last year was basically what I was expecting to happen at some point, when we simply couldn't replace the whole host of key players we had before  

On 9/15/2016 at 17:15, offside said:

FYI it's Colombia, not Columbia. One way to remember it is to keep in mind that the letter u is pronounced oo in Spanish. For example, uno (the number 1) is pronounced oo-noe rather than uh-noe. So if it were spelled Columbia, that means it would be pronounced coe-loom-bee-uh. As it's not pronounced that way, you know it's Colombia.  

 

 

FFS :lol: i spelled Columbia (by mistake) because it's spelled that way in my language (i am not British) . I am well aware that's it Colombia :) 

Edited September 19, 20169 yr by TrueBlueBIH

7 hours ago, Jezz said:

Nothing like a good Manchester United capitulation. I always loved Jose when he was with us, but something has gone wrong in the last 12 months for him.

He's on the path to self-destruction the way he's going. I was critical of the club when they sacked him because I thought the players and the board itself bared a huge amount of responsibility for our downfall, but I'm starting to concede it's possible that they made the right call with sacking Jose although the fault of our downfall was countless.

Something has gone wrong for him since we won the title in May 2015. It feels surreal seeing him lose his aura of invincibility that he had displayed for so many years before that but as it stands I don't think I'd want him back at the club.

He was great for us once upon a time, but I think the club has done the right thing moving forward post-Mourinho and I get the sense the pining for Mourinho that existed after leaving the first time and before he returned in June 2013 isn't evident this time round. I certainly don't hold that sentiment toward him the way I did after he left the first time.

As of Manchester United itself, it's great to see them falling apart after the arrogance they displayed in the off-season.

Great post.

Pure speculation of course on my part but I've also started to wonder whether José's manaerial skills might be beginning to deteriorate somewhat.

I think much of it stems from the development of his character - he seems to be getting more and more paranoid, megalomaniacal and abrasive with each passing month and it's certainly not to his benefit. It's no wonder that there was open mutiny within the Real Madrid dressing room, 'palpable discord' at Chelsea - Imagine working with someone like that on a day-to-day basis? José just can't seem to foster the same levels of loyalty that he could in his earlier years at Porto, Chelsea and Inter and it shows on the pitch. I also think that he's somewhat stuck tactically and needs to modernise in that way too. All in all, I'm struggling to see how he can succeed at United if he doesn't significantly alter his approach across the board.

For what it's worth - I was overjoyed when he came back and was very happy of course that we won the League and the League Cup. But I think selling KDB was a huge mistake and at the time I thought it might prove to be a greater error than selling Mata. It seems like I was right, but on balanace I'm still glad José came back and delivered what he did. That said, I don't think I would want him back for a third stint.

Edited September 19, 20169 yr by Celery1989

http://www.soccer-blogger.com/2016/09/18/video-wayne-rooney-vs-watford-2016-rooney-individual-poor-performance-compilation/

Edited September 19, 20169 yr by BelgradeCFC

Could have made 11 videos like that every game for us last season.

42 minutes ago, Celery1989 said:

Great post.

Pure speculation of course on my part but I've also started to wonder whether José's manaerial skills might be beginning to deteriorate somewhat.

I think much of it stems from the development of his character - he seems to be getting more and more paranoid, megalomaniacal and abrasive with each passing month and it's certainly not to his benefit. It's no wonder that there was open mutiny within the Real Madrid dressing room, 'palpable discord' at Chelsea - Imagine working with someone like that on a day-to-day basis? José just can't seem to foster the same levels of loyalty that he could in his earlier years at Porto, Chelsea and Inter and it shows on the pitch. I also think that he's somewhat stuck tactically and needs to modernise in that way too. All in all, I'm struggling to see how he can succeed at United if he doesn't significantly alter his approach across the board.

For what it's worth - I was overjoyed when he came back and was very happy of course that we won the League and the League Cup. But I think selling KDB was a huge mistake and at the time I thought it might prove to be a greater error than selling Mata. It seems like I was right, but on balanace I'm still glad José came back and delivered what he did. That said, I don't think I would want him back for a third stint.

Really looks like he could do with a long vacation, as Pep had after leaving Barca. I mean the man will have barely had a break for the last 15 years, and the way his personality and management style is, I can imagine that being extremely draining. I doubt even in the off-season he ever really switches off. Then maybe come back to a team under slightly less pressure, as Pep did with Bayern, or a PSG for example.

Not that I expect he'd ever consider that.

Did an office move a few weeks ago during which I wrote 'Tottenham are sh*te' on the whiteboard. I went back up there today and nobody has erased it - clearly they know it's the truth.

Special giveaway at Burnley

Get yer lorries up there! 

4 hours ago, offside said:

Special giveaway at Burnley

Get yer lorries up there! 

If you like puns, the comments about this on the Sunderland forum are absolutely brilliant 

http://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/burnley-fc-club-annoucement.1277431/

I still maintain my theory that managers generally tend to burn out after 10 years in the job. Only a handful of managers have been able to sustain such a high level - the rest tend to fizzle out or not be as good as they used to be (see Wenger, LVG etc). 

I am wondering whether Jose has hit this 10 year mark and cannot sustain his previously high standards. 

 

On 9/17/2016 at 23:03, carrickblue said:

the sale of Kevin de Bruyne is going to haunt us for years

 

I know as Stim says we have to move on, but that one, above all others, really keeps me awake at night. Jose's biggest mistake ever? (Early days perhaps - as it could be equalled on him spunking £89m on Pogba )

Looks like Guardiola is enjoying sticking the knife in with his comments about KDB - saying how he is one of the best players he has ever coached, knowing full well Mourinho sold him and didn't rate him.

 

Yes de bruyne is a bad mistake, but anyone that saw him stink the place out in Swindon on the Lge cup didn't exactly see a player that was knocking on the door to get in the team...it was his decision to leave too

8 hours ago, BelgradeCFC said:

http://www.soccer-blogger.com/2016/09/18/video-wayne-rooney-vs-watford-2016-rooney-individual-poor-performance-compilation/

Jose is so stubborn it is incredible and why he writes off Schweinsteiger before the season even starts is....., well the new jose way i guess.

Jose's problems in his second stint started long before the start of 2015 season. In my view, everything changed after that lose at WHL at the beginning of the year. It was a crazy end to end game, where results could have gone either way.  After the lose, Jose decided to change our approach, the attacking football for the first 4-5 months of the season was replaced by grinding out results through deploying 2 DMs and taking less risks with the ball. I don't recall we scored more than 1 goal in most of the games after the new year. Sure we got it in the end based on solid defence, few individual brilliance and some luck, but the momentum was long gone. For me, there was no point to panic at that stage, sometime you lose a game, but we been playing good football and players enjoyed themselves. It was not the time for siege mentality and back to the wall kind of stuffs.

5 hours ago, JM7 said:

I still maintain my theory that managers generally tend to burn out after 10 years in the job. Only a handful of managers have been able to sustain such a high level - the rest tend to fizzle out or not be as good as they used to be (see Wenger, LVG etc). 

I am wondering whether Jose has hit this 10 year mark and cannot sustain his previously high standards. 

The guns had barely fallen silent from WW2 when Helenio Herrera won back-to-back La Liga titles with Atletico, nearly ten years down the line he did the same with Barcelona before leading Inter to dominance at the height of the swinging sixties. The definition of managerial longevity and criminally underrated. Started managing in 1944 and didn't stop till 1981.

9 hours ago, The Brit said:

Yes de bruyne is a bad mistake, but anyone that saw him stink the place out in Swindon on the Lge cup didn't exactly see a player that was knocking on the door to get in the team...it was his decision to leave too

One terrible game is not enough to judge a player. He showed better qualities in a more important game vs Hull.  And of course it was his decision just like it was Matas, Lukakus and Schurlles as Jose closed the door on them.

Kante vs Gueye this season so far. Kante's stats on the left

 

Why would Kante be making key passes/creating chances when he's a defensive midfielder?

Do aerial duels include defending set prices? If so due to Kante's height he isn't given that role for us.

Stats are fine but they can easily be manipulated to tell a certain narrative.

I'm sure I've seen him make more than 9 tackles.

Either way, goes to say how bad Villa was that a player like Gueye looked average. 

Not trying to put down Kante or anything. Just a reference to show how good Gueye has been

1 hour ago, Zeta Orionis said:

I'm sure I've seen him make more than 9 tackles.

Me too - those stats do look distorted somewhat.

I like Koeman and it looks like Everton have made a good appointment there - folk are already saying could they be this seasons Leicester? But it's early days. So Gueye has had an impressive start but we're only 5 games in FFS. Let's see how he's fared with a few more (and tougher) games under his belt.