11 minutes ago, charierre said:

It’s that time of year again. Let’s sell Kante…our one true world class player!  He’s had a repeat of a knee injury, the type of injury suffered by players both young and old(is 30 old?). If we were daft enough to let him go, there would be a queue of top clubs after his services. Madness

Alas it’s not just his knee his hamstring is shot as his injury record over the last two seasons or so reflects.

I wish we didn’t have to have this debate but it’s not madness it’s a reality in that the number and frequency of games he misses is growing

Kante's contract needs to be renewed. The amount of injuries he gets is a great concern of course and there is always a risk he'll become another Essien in the end where the injuries reduced him to a shadow of his former self.

But right now he's still performing at a top level despite his injuries and we can't afford to lose him right now. He needs to be managed though which I think Tuchel is doing well.

I'll hold my hand up and say selling him to Inter and replacing him with Rice was a good idea last summer under Lampard. But that was down to mounting injuries and performances suffering under Sarri & Lampard. Under Tuchel we wouldn't have won the Champions League without him and if he's healthy come the end of the season we have a chance to repeat that win.

Edited December 29, 20214 yr by Sindre

1 minute ago, terraloon said:

Alas it’s not just his knee his hamstring is shot as his injury record over the last two seasons or so reflects.

I wish we didn’t have to have this debate but it’s not madness it’s a reality in that the number and frequency of games he misses is growing

Unless you know something different Tuchel said it was a recurrence of a knee injury sustained by impact.

Has it been mentioned that he has been back training since the last match?

4 minutes ago, charierre said:

Unless you know something different Tuchel said it was a recurrence of a knee injury sustained by impact.

Look back at his injury record over the last 2- 3 years.

There is absolutely no doubt he has been a great player, is a great player but the reason he rarely now plays a full 90 minutes is his body and it seems his knee and muscles in the upper leg need protecting. 

 

2 minutes ago, terraloon said:

Alas it’s not just his knee his hamstring is shot as his injury record over the last two seasons or so reflects.

I wish we didn’t have to have this debate but it’s not madness it’s a reality in that the number and frequency of games he misses is growing

And yet, despite his knee, dodgy hamstring, carrying injuries, playing half-fit he still usually turns in performances that are better than anyone else on the pitch!!!!!

Every football commentator and player pundit rave over him. Every rival fan would love him in their team. As Scott H has posted above, it is Kante that sets our tempo when he plays, (it's not Jorginho as some like to claim), he is the heartbeat of the team when he is on the pitch. To use the words of @Sindre "he is defensively terrific", he is fantastic at running with the ball, he has stamina and pace that Mo Farrah would envy, his reading of the game and anticipation of where the ball is going is staggering. Quite simply he is a God of a footballer.

2 minutes ago, just said:

And yet, despite his knee, dodgy hamstring, carrying injuries, playing half-fit he still usually turns in performances that are better than anyone else on the pitch!!!!!

Every football commentator and player pundit rave over him. Every rival fan would love him in their team. As Scott H has posted above, it is Kante that sets our tempo when he plays, (it's not Jorginho as some like to claim), he is the heartbeat of the team when he is on the pitch. To use the words of @Sindre "he is defensively terrific", he is fantastic at running with the ball, he has stamina and pace that Mo Farrah would envy, his reading of the game and anticipation of where the ball is going is staggering. Quite simply he is a God of a footballer.

I don’t disagree with any of that but but the fact that can’t be ignored is his physical ability to play even 45% of game time is where he currently is. If there hadn’t been a season on season drop in his playing time then yes it would be fair to say this possibly was just a bad run of luck but the stats say otherwise.

Succession planning is key and that means looking past the next 12 -24 months or so yes it’s guess work but it’s almost inevitable that we are witnessing the last throes of his career at Chelsea be it through his choice or indeed the clubs

21 minutes ago, terraloon said:

Look back at his injury record over the last 2- 3 years.

There is absolutely no doubt he has been a great player, is a great player but the reason he rarely now plays a full 90 minutes is his body and it seems his knee and muscles in the upper leg need protecting. 

 

His injury record last couple of years does as you state contain muscle injuries. Not helped by rushing him back after each one. This latest one though appears to be more impact if we are to believe what has been stated. 
We will have to carefully manage him, but as other great players have proved in the past this is very doable. He wouldn’t  get a 3 to 5 year contract as you previously correctly stated, that though applies to all our over 30 players. Basically though as long he is prepared to play year to year like others, there is absolutely no reason to sell him…he still is world class when on the pitch!  Look for a replacement by all means, he is though one of those players that you won’t realise just how good he is till he has a different shirt on.

1 minute ago, charierre said:

His injury record last couple of years does as you state contain muscle injuries. Not helped by rushing him back after each one. This latest one though appears to be more impact if we are to believe what has been stated. 
We will have to carefully manage him, but as other great players have proved in the past this is very doable. He wouldn’t  get a 3 to 5 year contract as you previously correctly stated, that though applies to all our over 30 players. Basically though as long he is prepared to play year to year like others, there is absolutely no reason to sell him…he still is world class when on the pitch!  Look for a replacement by all means, he is though one of those players that you won’t realise just how good he is till he has a different shirt on.

That’s one of the unknowns I make reference. 
 

It’s not just what the club want it’s what he demands

2 minutes ago, charierre said:

He wouldn’t  get a 3 to 5 year contract as you previously correctly stated, that though applies to all our over 30 players. Basically though as long he is prepared to play year to year like others, there is absolutely no reason to sell him…

This could potentially be a reason for him to not renew though. I think few 30 year olds at Kante's level would accept a year to year or even two year contracts like that.

So if that was what we were prepared to offer him I assume there would be other teams, like PSG for example that would be willing to offer him a four year contract with a fantastic wage.

8 minutes ago, terraloon said:

That’s one of the unknowns I make reference. 
 

It’s not just what the club want it’s what he demands

That's a completely different argument and we have a known stance on that. Until that point is reached as I stated previously it is madness to contemplate selling.

11 minutes ago, Sindre said:

This could potentially be a reason for him to not renew though. I think few 30 year olds at Kante's level would accept a year to year or even two year contracts like that.

So if that was what we were prepared to offer him I assume there would be other teams, like PSG for example that would be willing to offer him a four year contract with a fantastic wage.

He has a contract through to June 2023, no need at all to get flustered now about what might and might not happen. Enjoy the world-class player that we have and worry about the future when it comes... it's not the same scenario as a younger player with potential needing to be tied to a longer deal.

3 minutes ago, charierre said:

That's a completely different argument and we have a known stance on that. Until that point is reached as I stated previously it is madness to contemplate selling.

It really isn’t it’s all very much one of the factors that the club will be looking at when it looks at planning going forward.

 

2 minutes ago, terraloon said:

It really isn’t it’s all very much one of the factors that the club will be looking at when it looks at planning going forward.

 

Of course, the club will be planning for the future, I would be very surprised though if selling Kante any time soon is within the plans. Enjoy the player we have when he is on the pitch, he has particularly unique attributes, appears to be very well-liked by his fellow professionals, and appears to be well-grounded. There will be a time when he leaves and like a lot of great players from bygone eras will be talked about for years. Whatever the outcome, N'Golo is a player we will not have lost out on, even if he was to leave on a free eventually.

13 hours ago, Argo said:

The trick is not to obsess with replacing a player like for like.

We replaced Lampard with a polar opposite in Cesc and it worked, City 'replacing' Aguero with a false 9 system has also payed off handsomely.

Agree with that, Gallagher looks like he has an engine for midfield though won't replace Kante just different styles.

Kind of reminds me of Makele, there was only one Makele though others came and put in a shift.

The importan thing is get good talents thast want to play for us.

I would expect Kante to stay until we wants to leave, kind of feel he would have gone last season if he we wanted a last move.

53 minutes ago, charierre said:

Of course, the club will be planning for the future, I would be very surprised though if selling Kante any time soon is within the plans. Enjoy the player we have when he is on the pitch, he has particularly unique attributes, appears to be very well-liked by his fellow professionals, and appears to be well-grounded. There will be a time when he leaves and like a lot of great players from bygone eras will be talked about for years. Whatever the outcome, N'Golo is a player we will not have lost out on, even if he was to leave on a free eventually.

The clubs business model is one of the sharpest and indeed lucrative when it comes to extracting value from players.

I can’t be arsed to work out the amortised value of Kante but going into the last of his contract years it’s certainly not a lot more than £5 million.

Club after club are starting to get stung when players get to the end of their contract and as we are witnessing once a player gets into their last year they , the player, holds all the cards.

Unless there is a big offer on the table from Chelsea I very much doubt that Kante will stay . It really is a harsh reality but the club almost certainly will be looking to get some sort of return 

If Kante was say 28 or so I would agree 100% that the club should throw everything at trying to get him to sign another long term deal but the reality is from us as a Club he has had his last big pay day and almost certainly will be looking to get a significant long term deal and that desire almost certainly will have been made known.

I know Arsenal are a strange club to reference but they show just how big a mistake you make when you offer over 30 year olds long and huge value contracts. Now I am not suggesting that Aubamerang or Ozil are as loyal or as genuine as Kante appears but once a player tips in terms of value on the pitch then you have very limited options 

Football is a massive business and those behind the scene almost certainly won’t be looking at this from just the here and now they will almost certainly have a shopping list and say that chosen  replacement likewise is refusing to sign a new contract at their current club then it’s about grasping the moment  

 

3 hours ago, charierre said:

It’s that time of year again. Let’s sell Kante…our one true world class player!  He’s had a repeat of a knee injury, the type of injury suffered by players both young and old(is 30 old?). If we were daft enough to let him go, there would be a queue of top clubs after his services. Madness

 

We had an undisputed world class midfield in Lampard and Essien that turned average almost overnight. It's basic common sense to prepare and make sure we're not caught with our pants down again whenever that moment may come.

Sourcing a younger long term succesor ready for when the moment does come is sensible planning which will make any transition relitevely seamless. Imagine if we signed a young Modric in 2008? 2 years on we'd have had a bonafide world class player approaching his peak ready to slot in the middle when Essien and Lamps started slowing down, instead we just didn't bother planning and acted like those two were going to go on forever.

Do I think we should sell him? No, but I really hope we learned from the mistake with the old guard.

Edited December 29, 20214 yr by Argo

10 minutes ago, Argo said:

 

We had an undisputed world class midfield in Lampard and Essien that turned average almost overnight. It's basic common sense to prepare and make sure we're not caught with our pants down again whenever that moment may come.

Sourcing a younger long term succesor ready for when the moment does come is sensible planning which will make any transition relitevely seamless. Imagine if we signed a young Modric in 2008? 2 years on we'd have had a bonafide world class player approaching his peak ready to slot in the middle when Essien and Lamps started slowing down, instead we just didn't bother planning and acted like those two were going to go on forever.

Do I think we should sell him? No, but I really hope we learned from the mistake with the old guard.

You have uncanny way of always looking on the dark side of life. This happened and that happened so this will happen again. Why not look at successful players late in their careers some of whom had significant injury problems? As I said no problem seeking new blood but don’t write of a player who can still give a lot. Of course you wanted to sell Kante last year, eventually you will be right.

8 minutes ago, charierre said:

You have uncanny way of always looking on the dark side of life. This happened and that happened so this will happen again. Why not look at successful players late in their careers some of whom had significant injury problems? As I said no problem seeking new blood but don’t write of a player who can still give a lot. Of course you wanted to sell Kante last year, eventually you will be right.

I don't think I wanted to sell him happy for you to find posts on the contary, maybe in the heat of the moment when Lampard was picking him ahead of more in form players but in general I don't think so.

I will happily admit I did think the form he shown in the UCL last year was behind him but let's be honest next to no one gets to take the moral high ground when it comes to Kante because most of the people getting giddy about how "right" they are thought he was a sitting DM which is infinity times worse than thinking he was past his very best or even that we should sell him.

Edited December 29, 20214 yr by Argo

17 minutes ago, Argo said:

I don't think I wanted to sell him happy for you to find posts on the contary, maybe in the heat of the moment when Lampard was picking him ahead of more in form players but in general I don't think so.

I will happily admit I did think the form he shown in the UCL last year was behind him but let's be honest next to no one gets to take the moral high ground when it comes to Kante because most of the people getting giddy about how "right" they are thought he was a sitting DM which is infinity times worse than thinking he was past his very best or even that we should sell him.

To be quite honest I can’t be arsed trawling old posts, life is too short. My FINAL word on this subject is, as we appear to be going around in circles. I would categorically not sell him at this moment in time, he is far too important a player with unique attributes. Some favour cashing in on an asset, fair enough that is their opinion, I would be very surprised if our coach shares the same opinion.

i would never sell kanté, his character alone is priceless

This thinking that it's all fine and that Kante still has a lot of time left on his contract is just not how things actually look. I dare to ask the question, what if he doesn't want to renew the contract? What if he's not happy with being able to play only half the season and prefers to go to a less intense league?

As things stand right now, at the end of next season he's a free agent. Before that there is a chance that we might lose Azpilicueta, Rudiger and Christensen, their contracts expire at the end of this season. There is also a high possibility that we will also lose T.Silva as well. This is due to that same line of thinking, "it's all fine there is still time for x and y to sign the extension"... Doesn't look like that to me.

Tchouameni should be signed regardless of what happens to Kante. And if the biggest argument for Kante is that he can still play 50% of the games at his own high standard that's a great motive to sign Tchouameni as well. You're telling me that one of our best players will miss half the season in the future? That's a huge red flag so a new quality option is needed.

I'm tired of seeing that we got a great squad on paper but then in practice the best players never get to play together in more than a few games together. Yes Kante is an absolute legend but this argument how we won the CL only because of him simply isn't true, you don't win the CL because of 1 player. All this talk about how when he does play he's amazing is being terribly short-sighted, that's actually talking about him having a smaller role in the future but without a new good player to play most of the time, we would become a worse team that's only logical.

It's 2 different topics here, selling Kante is one and buying Tchouameni is the other and there doesn't need to be a connection between the buying and selling, specially if we are to accept that Kante simply isn't going to be available half the season.

Kante stays for as long as he wants to imo, preferably he retires here and joins the coaching staff, think he would be great for youth players.

If he wants to see out this contract and leave on a free to France then so be it too. Just like Dave he is a top servant and can do as they see fit imo.

We have to extend Kante. But we also need to invest in his backup. Someone young who can also slot into our first 11 when needed. I would prefer Tchouameni than Rice as he will be cheaper. Or we could even try Gallagher as an understudy to Kante. 

Kante should be able to target around 25 games per season where he can be his peak self. We can manage his game time as his quality hasn't gone down at all, just his conditioning.