57 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Let me just say this and i'm done for the day.

First of all this got nothing to do with Jorginho. "Funnily" enough some of the twats that spend their time hating on Jorginho suggest I got some kind of agenda against Kante. In that case I suggest you go through my post history and see what i've wrote about N'Golo. Either that or piss off with that opinion. I've praised Kante to the hills.

I can call a spade a spade though and don't have a problem with saying Kante had a terrible game yesterday. In that particular clip I used as an example he didn't cut of the pass lane (as he struggled with throughout) or gets close to Xhaka which is what he would have to do if he didn't cut out the passing lane. Both him and Loftus Cheek did track back but neither actually marked any of the Arsenal players that were open so they scored.
He's also had a very underwhelming season in general and made some costly mistakes that contributed to sending us out of the Champions League.

But he's obviously been a fantastic player for us over the last six years. At one point he was the best midfielder in the world. He's just declined due to injuries and isn't anywhere near the same level anymore.

As of Jorginho I don't have any particular feelings for me. But there is literally an agenda against that man. Some even resorts to hit-pieces from Twitter-Twats to put him down. Just insufferable and childish stuff and it's a bit of a disgrace in my opinion. So that's why I like to stand up for Jorginho on occassion as he's been a very good player for us and also a big reason why we are currently Champions of Europe.

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah you don't have any agenda, always even-handed, call a spade a spade, and lots of other nonsense. Blah, blah, blah.  Indeed, you come across as the very paragon of impartiality. But "Funnily" enough you don't speak up with anywhere near the same level of condemnation or criticism for piss poor performances and mistakes when Jorginho makes them.

And I repeat again that clip is absolute bollox and you know it. The player, (Odegaard not Smith_Rowe), MOVES runs into the space behind Kante to receive the pass. Mate, try and grasp this concept. He doesn't have eyes in the back of his head! Strewth!

14 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Kante played his best football when Jorginho was behind him and when Matic was behind him. He thrives when he has a more free role where he just runs and reads the game, at that role as a box-to-box midfielder he was the best player in the league.

Put him at the base of the midfield and he becomes much more limited in his movement and when he does move, it becomes much more risky as one bad read of where the ball is going or 2 seconds too late opens up a big area of the pitch. On top of it he has shown that he might give away the ball in the midfield while trying to pass forward, this has happened in several big games over the most recent season where we were heavily punished.

Tuchel made this mistake against Real Madrid and it cost us, arguably we needed a high tempo match due to being behind and that tactic worked but then it backfired, now against Arsenal as well it just didn’t work.

Tuchel overestimated the state of our squad at the start of the season, our players can’t play the high level press for a full season without getting burned out.

And in case someone thinks that the recent games are too little of a sample, Lampard tried to play Kante at the base of the midfield as well and you could argue that this decision cost him his job. As soon as Tuchel took over he looked towards Jorginho and the first game played after 1 training session the plan was keep possession and we broke some possession record against Wolves that first match under Tuchel.

No matter what people think about Sarri, he knew that Kante is the best as as box-to-box midfielder and he believed that Kante could even contribute much more in the final third so he recognized Kante's ability and trusted in him as he really has been one of our best players.

Edited April 21, 20224 yr by Gol15

29 minutes ago, just said:

But "Funnily" enough you don't speak up with anywhere near the same level of condemnation or criticism for piss poor performances and mistakes when Jorginho makes them.

I think Jorginho gets enough. This is some of the stuff people write about him on this forum.

"f**k of jorginho you sack of sh*t."

"...f**k Jorginho,"

Etc etc. The level of disrespect for Jorginho isn't comparable to anything Kante gets his way and you know it. And yeah, Kante is supposed to be the better player of the two so one should be allowed to expect more from him too. He earns the most and was world-class at one point so obviously you are hoping/expecting top class from him week in week out.

But anyways, that's it for me today. You can respond if you want but don't expect an answer.

On 21/04/2022 at 20:05, Sindre said:

I think Jorginho gets enough. This is some of the stuff people write about him on this forum.

"f**k of jorginho you sack of sh*t."

"...f**k Jorginho,"

Etc etc. The level of disrespect for Jorginho isn't comparable to anything Kante gets his way and you know it. And yeah, Kante is supposed to be the better player of the two so one should be allowed to expect more from him too. He earns the most and was world-class at one point so obviously you are hoping/expecting top class from him week in week out.

But anyways, that's it for me today. You can respond if you want but don't expect an answer.

I had long post with image to explain that sequence but I forget to click submit 😝😝

Anyway, it is difficult to blame Kante in that sequence. You can criticize his body shape but he expected ode to be on his left and ode made a good run behind him. 

The biggest problem in that video is ruben. He was nowhere. He could see the whole play and all he need to do was run back parallel to Kante and it would be very difficult for arse to score. 

Do people have agenda against Jorgi? Nope it is just a lot of people including me think he is an average player not wc, that's it. 

 

Edited April 23, 20224 yr by Bob stark

On 21/04/2022 at 14:05, Sindre said:

I think Jorginho gets enough. This is some of the stuff people write about him on this forum.

"f**k of jorginho you sack of sh*t."

"...f**k Jorginho,"

Etc etc. The level of disrespect for Jorginho isn't comparable to anything Kante gets his way and you know it. And yeah, Kante is supposed to be the better player of the two so one should be allowed to expect more from him too. He earns the most and was world-class at one point so obviously you are hoping/expecting top class from him week in week out.

But anyways, that's it for me today. You can respond if you want but don't expect an answer.

Heh, this! Some didn't even want to hear that he had a bad game in Madrid, tried to hate on me for apparently attacking him and went "Yes, I'd be ok with Kante playing like that every week."

They certainy got their wish against Arse, let's see how long the denial will last if N'golo continues.

1 hour ago, Vagabond said:

Heh, this! Some didn't even want to hear that he had a bad game in Madrid, tried to hate on me for apparently attacking him and went "Yes, I'd be ok with Kante playing like that every week."

They certainy got their wish against Arse, let's see how long the denial will last if N'golo continues.

The fact that Kante has had a terrible time and even worse games than Jorginho has ever had goes against what most people think in this forum. Risky to continue posting things like this.

2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

The fact that Kante has had a terrible time and even worse games than Jorginho has ever had goes against what most people think in this forum. Risky to continue posting things like this.

The worst thing about it is that I wish I was wrong. But you are right, some of our players have somewhat of a fanbase where it doesn't seem to matter what actually happens on the pitch. I blame social media and the americanization of the sport.

If it comes down to an either/or stance for next season, I don't think many people would keep Jorginho over Kante, least of all the manager !

Personally I'd sell both of them :-)  

Some nice driving runs forward at times, but his ball control and passing was painful to watch. The current Kante offers us nothing that Kovacic can't do better and as soon as he is fit, I would start him ahead of Kante for the remaining games.

23 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

Some nice driving runs forward at times, but his ball control and passing was painful to watch. The current Kante offers us nothing that Kovacic can't do better and as soon as he is fit, I would start him ahead of Kante for the remaining games.

Who would you start alongside Kovacic in the middle?

I'd agree that virtually all our attacking influence came from Kante today.

6 hours ago, just said:

Who would you start alongside Kovacic in the middle?

I'd agree that virtually all our attacking influence came from Kante today.

Kante has developed a nasty habit of costing us goals through mistakes. Multiple times over the last few months his carelessness has resulted in him giving the ball away, and has led to goals against.

As I said in the match thread to those that are defending Kante, he can be the best player in the world, and put in 10 out of 10 performances for 89 mins, but it is all for nothing if he continues his brainfart mistakes, giving the ball away that cost us goals.

He cost us 2 points and a win at OT tonight. It needs to stop. His mistakes are hurting us over and over again recently.

 

Edited April 28, 20224 yr by nonotnowjim

His finishing was not great, but it often is not. Top display from Kante, he ripped Uniteds midfield apart time and again.

33 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

Kante has developed a nasty habit of costing us goals through mistakes. Multiple times over the last few months his carelessness has resulted in him giving the ball away, and has led to goals against.

As I said in the match thread to those that are defending Kante, he can be the best player in the world, and put in 10 out of 10 performances for 89 mins, but it is all for nothing if he continues his brainfart mistakes, giving the ball away that cost us goals.

He cost us 2 points and a win at OT tonight. It needs to stop. His mistakes are hurting us over and over again recently.

 

It's going to happen, but i blame Dave today for there goal, he was slacking the line by 2 yds.

1 minute ago, coco said:

It's going to happen, but i blame Dave today for there goal, he was slacking the line by 2 yds.

And Rudiger. He was asleep too. 

Back 3 not on each others wavelengths.

Just now, axman2526 said:

And Rudiger. He was asleep too. 

Back 3 not on each others wavelengths.

And not Jorginho? Wow times are changing...

1 minute ago, Gol15 said:

And not Jorginho? Wow times are changing...

Jorgi and Kante were both really good, they ripped Uniteds midfield, such as it was, apart. James and Alonso did great too.

Our attackers were awful. Havertz the worst of them, Mount the best. 

Our back line had little to do and they all switched off when we needed them.

7 minutes ago, coco said:

It's going to happen, but i blame Dave today for there goal, he was slacking the line by 2 yds.

Yep - Dave held a poor line. But makes no difference if Kante doesnt pass utd the ball...

I don't know what he was doing for their goal. Matic hit him with the ball and he ran off as though he had control of it when it bounced into the open area next to him, his run made Havertz run too instead of holding his ground and blocking Matic from getting the ball. Very strange situation there.

Watching it again I think he wanted his first touch to bounce ahead of him but instead it bobbled away, still could've recovered it if he wasn't so quick to get running, I don't see it often when players don't react to a miscontrolled ball.

Edited April 28, 20224 yr by sonic90

6 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Kante has developed a nasty habit of costing us goals through mistakes. Multiple times over the last few months his carelessness has resulted in him giving the ball away, and has led to goals against.

As I said in the match thread to those that are defending Kante, he can be the best player in the world, and put in 10 out of 10 performances for 89 mins, but it is all for nothing if he continues his brainfart mistakes, giving the ball away that cost us goals.

He cost us 2 points and a win at OT tonight. It needs to stop. His mistakes are hurting us over and over again recently.

 

I am trying to blame Kante but I can't. He received the ball pump the ball and it was intercepted close to half line, our backline is intact our midfield intact 0 danger. Matic made a pass, bounced of kante, Matic got it back. 

All of this are just minor mistake, not sure how much blame you put it on kante

4 hours ago, sonic90 said:

I don't know what he was doing for their goal. Matic hit him with the ball and he ran off as though he had control of it when it bounced into the open area next to him, his run made Havertz run too instead of holding his ground and blocking Matic from getting the ball. Very strange situation there.

Watching it again I think he wanted his first touch to bounce ahead of him but instead it bobbled away, still could've recovered it if he wasn't so quick to get running, I don't see it often when players don't react to a miscontrolled ball.

The ball bounced of him. I don't understand what so weird about that sequence, he was trying to intercept the ball. 

He has graced us with world class performances over the years, but his standard, or hopefully just form, is not quite the same.  I'd agree he is making more mistakes nowadays in all areas of the pitch.  Wouldn't trade him for the world though, and think he looks better with Kovacic.

8 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Kante has developed a nasty habit of costing us goals through mistakes. Multiple times over the last few months his carelessness has resulted in him giving the ball away, and has led to goals against.

As I said in the match thread to those that are defending Kante, he can be the best player in the world, and put in 10 out of 10 performances for 89 mins, but it is all for nothing if he continues his brainfart mistakes, giving the ball away that cost us goals.

He cost us 2 points and a win at OT tonight. It needs to stop. His mistakes are hurting us over and over again recently.

 

It’s not that he lost the ball, it’s that in the few seconds after the three Chelsea players around it (including him) just stood and waited for each other to react. Normally Kante would lose it but then immediately set about getting the ball back - twice now that’s happened recently and cost us a goal. 

2 hours ago, Bob stark said:

I am trying to blame Kante but I can't. He received the ball pump the ball and it was intercepted close to half line, our backline is intact our midfield intact 0 danger. Matic made a pass, bounced of kante, Matic got it back. 

All of this are just minor mistake, not sure how much blame you put it on kante

Minor mistakes that cost us a goal and 2 points.  He also made minor mistakes in the real madrid game that cost us 2 goals. 

We can dress it up all we like, the fact of the matter is that his mistakes are costing us goals and losing us games/wins. If he puts the ball out of play or hoofs it down the pitch to de gea last night, then the utd goal doesn't happen. He made a decision, and passed the ball straight o utd midfield, 5 seconds later the ball is in the net.

 

5 hours ago, Bob stark said:

The ball bounced of him. I don't understand what so weird about that sequence, he was trying to intercept the ball. 

Watch him start sprinting forward when the ball bounced away from him and explain that to me. It was like a FIFA glitch or something when the AI got confused.