100M  for Kanté and Ziyech.

You will take it?

I feel like Ziyech has so much more to offer, we just don't see it enough, and he never really gets a long run of starts.

5 minutes ago, Mário César said:

100M  for Kanté and Ziyech.

You will take it?

If would take that, even from United although i'm always sceptical about strengthening a rival.

I think we need to realize we are in a rebuild phase. I like both Kante & Jorginho both we need to realize they are both 31 and won't be part of the long-term future at this club. So I would be open for offers for both of them at this point.

8 minutes ago, Mário César said:

100M  for Kanté and Ziyech.

You will take it?

If it was a "Buy 2 get one free" involving Bakayoko as well then I'd be all over that deal :-) 

2 hours ago, Mário César said:

100M  for Kanté and Ziyech.

You will take it?

Yes, is like selling them Mata and Matic again. Yes Kante is better than Matic but still, if that was the cash on offer I would take it.

4 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Yes, is like selling them Mata and Matic again. Yes Kante is better than Matic but still, if that was the cash on offer I would take it.

and then we bought bakayako!

2 minutes ago, Jangz said:

and then we bought bakayako!

Hopefully Todd does a better job.

11 hours ago, bisright1 said:

We haven't been a bottomless pit of money for a long time. I'd say of Boehly takes over we've probably got more to spend than in the last 5 years. 

But we should still sell both of them to united. 100m will do. 

 

Kanté in a red shirt, that will hurt  If he's sold, please sell him to a club abroad. 

12 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Talk of United wanting him and Ziyech. End of the day we are not Roman's bottomless pit of cash anymore, if a good offer comes in considering Kantes age and mobility being a huge part of his game we should consider it.

Nah they won't sign Kante unless we lower the price to somewhere around 20 m

100% resign Ngolo TT is right he's the only world class player we have bar Silva who's on the decline due to age and Reece James. If Chilwell regains form after his injury then maybe him too. 

If we can keep Ngolo fit we always have a chance vs anybody. Last night he wasn't at his best yet was involved in our goal and played Lukaku through for what should really have been a goal.

Personally, I think we need to keep Kante, at least for another season. There is already huge disruption, and basically a new back line. Dont think we can risk Kante also going at the same time as that.

Yes, he has made mistakes that have cost us games/results and a place in the champions league final...

...but he is still Ngolo. He is NOT one of our biggest headaches, so we should choose our battles.

4 hours ago, LongtimerLurker said:

100% resign Ngolo TT is right he's the only world class player we have bar Silva who's on the decline due to age and Reece James. If Chilwell regains form after his injury then maybe him too. 

If we can keep Ngolo fit we always have a chance vs anybody. Last night he wasn't at his best yet was involved in our goal and played Lukaku through for what should really have been a goal.

Is Silva on the decline though? He's been brilliant again this season. I have seen a far bigger decline in Kante in all honesty. I'm not saying we should sell him, but I'm finding it harder to argue with those that think we should. Trying to get Kante fit every season is hurting us. We can't get a settled midfield and constantly trying to get Kante back up to match fitness is hurting our performances and results. He's not even performing well in the big games anymore, games where he used to be the best player on the pitch even at 50% fitness. 

There hasn't been a single moment all season where I would have preferred Kante over Kovacic. This isn't a knock at Kovacic, a player who I think has gone up a level in the past 2 seasons, but Kovacic at his best is still a level below Kante at his best. But the more we hold on to the hope that world class Kante will return, the longer it will take for our midfield to find any consistency.

51 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

Is Silva on the decline though? He's been brilliant again this season. I have seen a far bigger decline in Kante in all honesty. I'm not saying we should sell him, but I'm finding it harder to argue with those that think we should. Trying to get Kante fit every season is hurting us. We can't get a settled midfield and constantly trying to get Kante back up to match fitness is hurting our performances and results. He's not even performing well in the big games anymore, games where he used to be the best player on the pitch even at 50% fitness. 

There hasn't been a single moment all season where I would have preferred Kante over Kovacic. This isn't a knock at Kovacic, a player who I think has gone up a level in the past 2 seasons, but Kovacic at his best is still a level below Kante at his best. But the more we hold on to the hope that world class Kante will return, the longer it will take for our midfield to find any consistency.

When I was talking about Silva I only say decline because of age, so pace, reactions etc. He's still world class but he's a world class player on the decline. Won't be world class for too much longer, maybe another season in this league at best?

I don't disagree with you mate, but I do believe it's possible to keep Ngolo and still go about a rebuild in midfield. In fact that's the only thing that makes sense to me. If he's available for matches then great if not, we have players that are more than capable. Players can also speak off the pitch with Ngolo and learn from him like Tchouaméni.

Fun fact since TT has been in charge (16 months) Kanté has featured in 49% of our matches. We don't need him all season long that would be great if possible, but imo we just need him for clutch games like UCL KOs or title rival matches, cup finals. 

If he does recover and can stay fit for a season great, doesn't mean we can't still rotate him with younger players, he's a humble guy I'm sure he'd rather prolong his career at the top of the game and play for longer (years) than more games  per season and then a shorter career.

28 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

Fun fact since TT has been in charge (16 months) Kanté has featured in 49% of our matches. We don't need him all season long that would be great if possible, but imo we just need him for clutch games like UCL KOs or title rival matches, cup finals. 

 

From the perspective of the money men, you can't pay a guy nearly 300 grand a week and only get 50 odd percent playing time in return. 

20 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

From the perspective of the money men, you can't pay a guy nearly 300 grand a week and only get 50 odd percent playing time in return. 

Yes exactly. It has been reported that the new owners are not happy with the level of Kantes salary based on how often he can play, and want that salary dropped significantly for him to stay.

They also want Lukaku, Werner and Havertz to justify their huge wages and believe the star wage should not be based on position or nationality but who delivers quality for the majority of the games.

Hence why they want to lock Reece and Mason down apparently.

We may see a real effort to move Timo, Kai and Rom on too.

11 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Yes exactly. It has been reported that the new owners are not happy with the level of Kantes salary based on how often he can play, and want that salary dropped significantly for him to stay.

They also want Lukaku, Werner and Havertz to justify their huge wages and believe the star wage should not be based on position or nationality but who delivers quality for the majority of the games.

Hence why they want to lock Reece and Mason down apparently.

We may see a real effort to move Timo, Kai and Rom on too.

Music to my ears personally. Getting fed up with players being paid well worth their value for bang average performances. 

Both Jorginho and Kante I am open to selling if we have adequate replacements lined up. 

10 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Yes exactly. It has been reported that the new owners are not happy with the level of Kantes salary based on how often he can play, and want that salary dropped significantly for him to stay.

They also want Lukaku, Werner and Havertz to justify their huge wages and believe the star wage should not be based on position or nationality but who delivers quality for the majority of the games.

Hence why they want to lock Reece and Mason down apparently.

We may see a real effort to move Timo, Kai and Rom on too.

This is good news, assuming it's accurately reported !

Look at our top 10 earners (source: Sportrac) :

Kante is barely half fit all the time, Lukaku, Werner, Saul, Kepa, Havertz and Pulisic are inconsistent and a bit crap if we are honest, and certainly not worth what we are paying them. Chilwell is injured. Dave is in decline. Only Kovacic is performing at the level you would expect of a top earner,and even he has injury issues.

It's absurd how the board have given out contracts of such magnitude, while the players that actually do the business week in week out are way down the pay scale. 

 

8 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

This is good news, assuming it's accurately reported !

Look at our top 10 earners (source: Sportrac) :

Kante is barely half fit all the time, Lukaku, Werner, Saul, Kepa, Havertz and Pulisic are inconsistent and a bit crap if we are honest, and certainly not worth what we are paying them. Chilwell is injured. Dave is in decline. Only Kovacic is performing at the level you would expect of a top earner,and even he has injury issues.

It's absurd how the board have given out contracts of such magnitude, while the players that actually do the business week in week out are way down the pay scale. 

 

Agreed. Hopefully the report is true. We could do with shifting most of the people on that list.

I mean if we assume that tabke is accurate, and I had read elsewhere Kai earns 250k a week not 150, then almost all those players are not earning their keep.

We have those that are diabolical wastes of money:

Lukaku

Werner 

Saul

Kepa

 

We have those who been subpar and have produced now now again but not enough for that level:

Kai

Pulisic

Dave (this season)

 

Then we have those that pick up injuries too often and miss large parts of the season:

 

Kante

Chilwell

Kovacic

 

Going forward I really think we need to introduce pay based on appearances. 

Say you give a player a base of 80-120k a week before tax, if they play at least one game on that 7 day period they get another 60-100k, and performance related bonuses like win bonuses, goals, assists, clean sheets etc based on their playing position.

 

Based on consistent level of performances the likes of James, Mount, Silva and Rudiger should be our top earners.

Edited May 21, 20224 yr by axman2526

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

 

Going forward I really think we need to introduce pay based on appearances. 

Say you give a player a base of 80-120k a week before tax, if they play at least one game on that 7 day period they get another 60-100k, and performance related bonuses like win bonuses, goals, assists, clean sheets etc based on their playing position.

Lol that just means no one will sign for us. 

36 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Lol that just means no one will sign for us. 

Don't see it being a problem for Mase or James.

If that means we don't get the Lukakus and Werners of thus world that is a big win in my book.

Edited May 21, 20224 yr by axman2526

5 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Don't see it being a problem for Mase or James.

If that means we don't get the Lukakus and Werners of thus world that is a big win in my book.

It would be a problem for Mase and James.  If I'm them why the hell should I be gambling my salary on my fitness when literally no other club would have such a ridiculous clause.

Also let's show some respect and loyalty to Kante, just because he's not as good as he was doesn't mean we should flip him asap.  United could have sold Scholes and Giggs at 31 but they didn't and won many more trophies for the club even though they were past their best.  We don't want to be Arsenal.

 

 

11 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Don't see it being a problem for Mase or James.

If that means we don't get the Lukakus and Werners of thus world that is a big win in my book.

It means we don't sign anyone and Mount and James would leave. 

34 minutes ago, Whiskyjack said:

It would be a problem for Mase and James.  If I'm them why the hell should I be gambling my salary on my fitness when literally no other club would have such a ridiculous clause.

Also let's show some respect and loyalty to Kante, just because he's not as good as he was doesn't mean we should flip him asap.  United could have sold Scholes and Giggs at 31 but they didn't and won many more trophies for the club even though they were past their best.  We don't want to be Arsenal.

 

 

You can use those examples from United, but Fergie also got rid of Beckham, Stam, RVN and others who were in their pomp he did not always keep them.

31 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

It means we don't sign anyone and Mount and James would leave. 

Depends how you structure the deals. Often deals have clauses built in to them, goals, assists, clean sheets, appearance etc. Go more on bonuses and less on base pay seems a good way to reward those who perform.

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

You can use those examples from United, but Fergie also got rid of Beckham, Stam, RVN and others who were in their pomp he did not always keep them.

Depends how you structure the deals. Often deals have clauses built in to them, goals, assists, clean sheets, appearance etc. Go more on bonuses and less on base pay seems a good way to reward those who perform.

We've just lost two players who didn't sign the contract we offered. I'm fairly certain trying to restructure the deals to make them less appealing to players is not in our power.

Edited May 21, 20224 yr by bisright1