4 hours ago, Kantesmini said:

who you pick to bring in then, Master Yoda...

Gallagher.

 

The Kante question shouldn't be one about quality in my opinion. We know he's quality. Although often struggles when team sit deep as so many others in our team.

The question is if we should extend a soon 32 year old and injury prone midfielder who's missed more and more games for us over the last two-three seasons. To win the league you need players you can depend on (JT wouldn't have been JT if he played 4 out of 10 games etc) and Kante is at the point where he is unreliable.

9 hours ago, HazardousChoice said:

20 years, with me being a season ticket holder at the Bridge for 7 of those years.

I can't recall a single player as limited technically as Kante or someone so ineffective for much of the season due to being incredibly limited in the types of games he can influence and only being useful in one style of play (which isn't a typical system for a top league winning side) being heralded like N'golo has.

We've seen Kante's glaring flaws hobble us in possession for years now and at the time he often gets the criticism he deserves but the second he has his 1st good performance in 10 games it just vanishes and people go back to parroting the idea that he's still this world class player and that no other defensive midfielder can replicate what he does.

So he was world class?

I don't think people realize how bad our midfield truly is in term of protecting our backline. Tuchel back 3, heavy controlled football really has clouded everyone judgment. No Kante, no midfield has been our motto for 2/3 seasons now. 

Now everyone want to sell Kante and replace him Gallagher. I love conor, I think he can become a brilliant player for us. But I want conor to be conor and not thinking about protecting our backline. 

Edited May 30, 20224 yr by Bob stark

I was going to say Kante at his best was a monster, etc etc but everyone already knows that.

Very strange take since he was one of the biggest reasons we’ve won the league and champions league. Bizarre.

8 hours ago, Bob stark said:

I don't think people realize how bad our midfield truly is in term of protecting our backline. Tuchel back 3, heavy controlled football really has clouded everyone judgment. No Kante, no midfield has been our motto for 2/3 seasons now. 

Now everyone want to sell Kante and replace him Gallagher. I love conor, I think he can become a brilliant player for us. But I want conor to be conor and not thinking about protecting our backline. 

I would want Gallagher to take the role Kante does now because Kante only plays 50% of games. Gallagher will be replacing Kante whether we sell him or not because Kante doesn't play enough. 

I'd want the person who "protects our back line" to be the other midfielder. Personally I'd get Kalvin Phillips. And if there's a club as stupid as united who will buy a player who can only play for 50% of games for 75+m then I'd say sell Kante and buy better.

On 29/05/2022 at 21:58, just said:

So he was world class?

I think most people would say he was in a certain role.

But I suppose the question is "Is a niche player that excels in a particular role world class if every other style of play exposes his basic flaws?

Personally I find it hard to put Kante at that level given how all top teams tend to dominate possession in 90% of their games and his poor passing really hurts his team in those games.

It's not even like you can play him as a lone DM in a midfield 3 alongside 2 more attacking players.  The only role Kante has ever performed in is in a midfield 2 in a counter attacking team alongside a more static defensive minded partner like Matic or Drinkwater and that's not how any top team will set up in 90% of their games.

So world class? Overall not for me.

17 hours ago, HazardousChoice said:

I think most people would say he was in a certain role.

But I suppose the question is "Is a niche player that excels in a particular role world class if every other style of play exposes his basic flaws?

Personally I find it hard to put Kante at that level given how all top teams tend to dominate possession in 90% of their games and his poor passing really hurts his team in those games.

It's not even like you can play him as a lone DM in a midfield 3 alongside 2 more attacking players.  The only role Kante has ever performed in is in a midfield 2 in a counter attacking team alongside a more static defensive minded partner like Matic or Drinkwater and that's not how any top team will set up in 90% of their games.

So world class? Overall not for me.

Well. Alrighty. You took some time out. But it seems you are intent on digging yourself into an even deeper hole. Makalele was also "a niche" player. And most people who knew anything about football kinda felt he was reasonably decent at what he was there to "niche". Same as most football people, (not just Chelsea fans), also recognise Kante was a world class "nicher".

9 minutes ago, just said:

Well. Alrighty. You took some time out. But it seems you are intent on digging yourself into an even deeper hole. Makalele was also "a niche" player. And most people who knew anything about football kinda felt he was reasonably decent at what he was there to "niche". Same as most football people, (not just Chelsea fans), also recognise Kante was a world class "nicher".

Kante has cost us more goals over the last 6 months than Maka did over his entire Chelsea career.

I dont want or think that Kante will go - but he has been bang average at times this season.

1 hour ago, nonotnowjim said:

Kante has cost us more goals over the last 6 months than Maka did over his entire Chelsea career.

I dont want or think that Kante will go - but he has been bang average at times this season.

Sure but Kante won us the CL which Maka never could. Easy to make comparisons to suit an agenda. That said, his body is declining. We really need a creative outlet in the midfield so one of Jorgi/Kante has to go.

2 hours ago, just said:

Well. Alrighty. You took some time out. But it seems you are intent on digging yourself into an even deeper hole. Makalele was also "a niche" player. And most people who knew anything about football kinda felt he was reasonably decent at what he was there to "niche". Same as most football people, (not just Chelsea fans), also recognise Kante was a world class "nicher".

Sorry,  we aren't all old men with absolutely no lives or anything to do other than post on the Chelsea forum.

Kante is definitely a lot more niche than Makélélé (it's not Makalele) and any other static defensive midfielder you can put at the base of a 3, it's a lot easier to fit someone like Casemiro, Fabinho or Rodri into a functioning midfield than Kante who needs another static player next to him to get the best out of him but at that point you're losing far too much creativity and attacking intent from deep in the games you need to break teams down.

It's not really a surprise we've struggled so much creatively in midfield for most of Kante's time here. 

 It's a ridiculous level of recency bias to suggest Kante was ever on the level of Makélélé.  I don't recall people questioning Maka's role years after he signed because he had so many consistently poor performances in a variety of positions like Kante has had for years.

Edited June 1, 20224 yr by HazardousChoice

10 hours ago, RomansRoubles said:

Sure but Kante won us the CL which Maka never could. Easy to make comparisons to suit an agenda. That said, his body is declining. We really need a creative outlet in the midfield so one of Jorgi/Kante has to go.

Ryan bertrand, Bosingwa and merieles also won the champions league for us. It doesn't make them better or more effective than Maka.

I think regardless of Kante's quality and there remains few better destroyers in thus league I don't belive that he will fit the financial model going forward and I expect him to go. If that does happen I hope it is to another league entirely.

Yes his timing hasn't been as good this season and maybe the years in the trenches is starting to take its toll. That said for me he has still been one of the most reliable and enjoyable players to watch in recent years with none of this plastic footballer theatrics of diving around on the floor, grabbing the air, slapping the ground.

Le roi du milieu

Edited June 2, 20224 yr by WhiteWall

42 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

I think regardless of Kante's quality and there remains few better destroyers in thus league I don't belive that he will fit the financial model going forward and I expect him to go. If that does happen I hope it is to another league entirely.

Usually I'd agree but i can't see them doing it for two reasons.

1. Given who we've already lost this summer.

2. The new owners will want to make the best first impression and selling Kante will do the opposite, even when he's fully declined they'll be a significant section of the fanbase who will still want him around I feel.

We're stuck between a rock and hard place with him really, we can't really afford to let him go for the reasons stated above but to say giving someone who's main attributes are energy and athleticism a mega new deal until he's 36 would be asking for trouble is a massively misguided understatement.

In an ideal world he signs a new one year deal to take him up to 2024 and we reassess next summer but not sure how realistic that is. The one thing United do get right is they always put options of a year extension on their players, which would be very handy right now.

28 minutes ago, Argo said:

Usually I'd agree but i can't see them doing it for two reasons.

1. Given who we've already lost this summer.

2. The new owners will want to make the best first impression and selling Kante will do the opposite, even when he's fully declined they'll be a significant section of the fanbase who will still want him around I feel.

We're stuck between a rock and hard place with him really, we can't really afford to let him go for the reasons stated above but to say giving someone who's main attributes are energy and athleticism a mega new deal until he's 36 would be asking for trouble is a massively misguided understatement.

In an ideal world he signs a new one year deal to take him up to 2024 and we reassess next summer but not sure how realistic that is. The one thing United do get right is they always put options of a year extension on their players, which would be very handy right now.

We always do with the older players. It’s a tricky one; you let him run down his contract without negotiating a new one and he will probably feel not valued. You offer him a new improved contract on massive wages to fend of suitors, and his injuries continues you are then stuck with an unsellable asset on ridiculous wages.

I say let him run down his contract, and enter negotiations in Nov if he can regain his form and stay injury fee. If he rejects it, he has earned his free transfer.

12 hours ago, HazardousChoice said:

Sorry,  we aren't all old men with absolutely no lives or anything to do other than post on the Chelsea forum.

There’s really no need for that.

13 hours ago, HazardousChoice said:

Sorry,  we aren't all old men with absolutely no lives or anything to do other than post on the Chelsea forum.

 

Exactly, there are also old women with absolutely no lives or anything to do other than post on the Chelsea forum here  I'm pleased you have noticed this. 

4 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Ryan bertrand, Bosingwa and merieles also won the champions league for us. It doesn't make them better or more effective than Maka.

Sure. If you think those guys had the same impact as Kante in our CL win. Without him, we don't win it.

2 hours ago, ducavis said:

We always do with the older players. It’s a tricky one; you let him run down his contract without negotiating a new one and he will probably feel not valued. You offer him a new improved contract on massive wages to fend of suitors, and his injuries continues you are then stuck with an unsellable asset on ridiculous wages.

I say let him run down his contract, and enter negotiations in Nov if he can regain his form and stay injury fee. If he rejects it, he has earned his free transfer.

This exactly. He’s paid back his 30m transfer fee multiple times over.
Keep him around and make a call later in the year. 
 

even worst case He has a monster year and leaves on a free we’d be getting one more season of prime Kante and not giving away too many more of them

4 hours ago, RomansRoubles said:

Sure. If you think those guys had the same impact as Kante in our CL win. Without him, we don't win it.

Brilliant post. 

5 hours ago, RomansRoubles said:

Sure. If you think those guys had the same impact as Kante in our CL win. Without him, we don't win it.

The point is moot - You made the point that Kante won the champions league with Chelsesa in the past, and Maka didnt. I pointed out that other (in my opinion inferior) players have also won he champions league with Chelsea, as a way simply demonstrating that winning of the competition in itself is not a barometer of how good any individual player is, and how redundant your comment was.

We could equally also make the reverse point, and say that Kantes mistakes got us knocked out of the champions league this season, as he was at fault for at least one goal against Madrid. Maka never made such an error to lead to us getting knocked out.  But....again, mistakes in a single game, despite having huge consequences, are also no an accurate measure when comparing individual players. So that would also be moot.

What is clear is this. 1) Kante has been one of the best players for chelsea over the last few years, and has arguably been one of our only world class players for a while. 2) When Kante plays at his best, it is like having a 12th man.  3) Despite that, we are seeing less and less of his best 4) This season has seen a decline, where he has cost us goals/games as a result of mistakes.

I dont think he will leave. I dont particularly want him to leave. But we do need to replace him, if not now, then in the near future.

 

Edited June 2, 20224 yr by nonotnowjim

he just had one slightly disappointing season with injuries 

i don't mind taking the risk giving him a long term deal, it would be worth it just for him to be in the squad, to see our Ngolo around the team and to avoid the risk of him finding his level at another club. Even a mediocre backup for his position would in this market require a minimum of 100k a week + 30, 40, 50 million. Kanté is a Chelsea legend imo. He has earned the credit to have 1 bad (bad compared to our high expectations) season. 

Edited June 2, 20224 yr by azpi28

1 hour ago, nonotnowjim said:

The point is moot - You made the point that Kante won the champions league with Chelsesa in the past, and Maka didnt. I pointed out that other (in my opinion inferior) players have also won he champions league with Chelsea, as a way simply demonstrating that winning of the competition in itself is not a barometer of how good any individual player is, and how redundant your comment was.

We could equally also make the reverse point, and say that Kantes mistakes got us knocked out of the champions league this season, as he was at fault for at least one goal against Madrid. Maka never made such an error to lead to us getting knocked out.  But....again, mistakes in a single game, despite having huge consequences, are also no an accurate measure when comparing individual players. So that would also be moot.

What is clear is this. 1) Kante has been one of the best players for chelsea over the last few years, and has arguably been one of our only world class players for a while. 2) When Kante plays at his best, it is like having a 12th man.  3) Despite that, we are seeing less and less of his best 4) This season has seen a decline, where he has cost us goals/games as a result of mistakes.

I dont think he will leave. I dont particularly want him to leave. But we do need to replace him, if not now, then in the near future.

 

You started with the point that Kante has made more mistakes this season than Maka's entire career. My point wasn't that he won the CL medal but he was the main reason we won. I can argue then that his ceiling was much higher than Maka because he got us the CL. He was MOTM in both the semis against Real and the final against City and was fantastic throughout. 

I already agreed with the bolded part that we probably need to replace him as his body is breaking down. Personally, I would keep him with a reduced role as he is still great against possession based sides. Anyways, my last post on this. 

Also, he is always so polite 🙂

https://www.reddit.com/r/Unexpected/comments/txrf1f/f**k_u_to_everyone_lmao/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Edited June 2, 20224 yr by RomansRoubles

how can you not want 5 more years of this 

People need to come to terms with reality already. 

We don't have an owner that can simply write off losses anymore. It's not about what you consider risky, its about what is considered risky to owners who are are focused on self sustainability. 

300Kpw for a player who is losing his main attribute (athleticism) is diminishing isn't worth extending unless they take a pay cut.