2 minutes ago, Kante Conte said:

Smalling, Jones, Sakho, etc, etc,  I would take any of those ahead of Luiz, personally. 

 

Jonny evans too. Atleast he is a "defender"

5 minutes ago, didierforever said:

Amen. 

Plus next year we will have a 30 year old Luiz, 37 year old JT, 31 year old GC, 33 year old ivanovic. 

A team for the future.

a 22 year old Christensen, a 22 year old Zouma. You can't win games with an entire team of toddlers. Luiz is a decent baller, his defending is erratic, but you'd swear by this thread that he gives away a goal per game. He has the odd lapse every couple of games, sometimes he gets punished for it. Sounds like every other defender in world football. People make errors. I, for one, will be happy enough to see him back, he'll be the only ball-playing CB on our book, which is what Conte likes. Also people whinging about his age are the same ones that were creaming their drawers over Bonucci, who is, shock, also 29. Not saying Luiz is as good, because he isn't, but he's not as bad as he's being made out to be, and he's also a good leader for the team, which is something we lack.

1 minute ago, Kante Conte said:

Smalling, Jones, Sakho, etc, etc,  I would take any of those ahead of Luiz, personally. 

 

I wouldn't tbh.

Not a huge fan of Luiz but Sakho performed worse than Luiz ever did in this league.

We are getting someone who knows our set up, some of the staff, players and supporters.

Not my first choice but from the names coming out the last few days he seems the best option.

5 minutes ago, Remodez said:

I'm not sure what you are saying here. You are both agreeing and disagreeing at the same time. 

I'm saying you don't need to spend 35-40m on someone to improve the squad. There's plenty of cheaper players for that.

Sideshow returns,well i never.

1 minute ago, the special one said:

Neither is Koulibaly who may have cost ~£45m+?

I hate it when people say X player is / isnt world class. Unless you are talking about Forwards it makes no difference. What matter is how the players in defence and the center of midfield compliment each other. I remember when Real sold us Makelele Zidane said whats the point in putting another coat of paint on if you havent got an engine, Perez has never had a well balanced squad because they were too focussed on galactico's. Balance is more important. We were desperate for Magala until City blew us out the water, we signed Zouma for £13mil, who got the better deal? Ivan £9m, Dave £7m, Cahill £7m, Money isnt the first and most important factor in defence.

1 minute ago, Kante Conte said:

Smalling, Jones, Sakho, etc, etc,  I would take any of those ahead of Luiz, personally. 

 

Smalling is okay. Can't stand Jones. Sakho for slashed price maybe. Luiz is an experienced champion. Have seen it all and is captain-material if anyone.

Luiz is passionate, Conte is passionate, I think if you put the 2 together that is a lethal combination. Also if Conte can smack his head against the wall and teach him how to defend properly, then great! I'm all for it. Luiz is 29 so still has a couple of years to offer as well, he want's to come back, he had a great relationship with US. The celebration against us in the champions league was more aimed at Mourinho than the club so I've never looked at him with red mist. I'm all for welcoming players back IF they really want to wear the shirt, AND HE DOES...

I think we are all going to have to accept that we don't know what state Zouma is going to come back to. An ACL injury is never easy to recover from. My point being we need a CB for cover NOW. If Cahill gets injured for England for e.g., then we are up s**t creek as it stands...luckily with Luiz coming that is a problem sorted. We can't recall Andreas Christensen, and tbh none of the younger defenders bar Aina look good enough (annoyingly but that's a different story...)

I'm not saying this is the transfer I wanted! I would rather have had one of the young guns from Seria A but the Italian Clubs aren't stupid, they know we have a lot of ££££ and have priced us out of any move. Reality is this is the best value transfer for a CB we can get in this window. And of course he is a liability, this could be the worst transfer we've EVER made. I don't believe there will be an in-between, Luiz will either be amazing, or he will be s**t. BUT I'm a glass half full guy so I'm looking at the positives more than the negatives. 

I will also add that he can play in CDM, imagine Kante, Matic and him in a midfield 3 away to Stoke on a cold wet Wednesday night...I think we can all admit he is a versatile player and will probably be a useful member of the squad...

 

Edited August 31, 20169 yr by ellmo16

1 minute ago, Kante Conte said:

Smalling, Jones, Sakho, etc, etc,  I would take any of those ahead of Luiz, personally. 

 

 

United would never sell Smalling to us, i also don't think he is anything special. Jones is average at everything and always injured. Sakho is as hit and miss as Luiz, it's possible that he is even more hit and miss than Luiz, i have seen Sakho put in some terrible performances for Liverpool.

2 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

I'm saying you don't need to spend 35-40m on someone to improve the squad. There's plenty of cheaper players for that.

Of course but we aren't in a position to complain about prices after leaving it this late. 

1 minute ago, didierforever said:

Jonny evans too. Atleast he is a "defender"

Johnny Evans is a ManU rat who is a mediocre player and an opposite of the word exciting. Luiz is more than just exciting. For example vs Chelsea in CL he was pretty good. 

Just now, RMCM said:

a 22 year old Christensen, a 22 year old Zouma. You can't win games with an entire team of toddlers. Luiz is a decent baller, his defending is erratic, but you'd swear by this thread that he gives away a goal per game. He has the odd lapse every couple of games, sometimes he gets punished for it. Sounds like every other defender in world football. People make errors. I, for one, will be happy enough to see him back, he'll be the only ball-playing CB on our book, which is what Conte likes. Also people whinging about his age are the same ones that were creaming their drawers over Bonucci, who is, shock, also 29. Not saying Luiz is as good, because he isn't, but he's not as bad as he's being made out to be, and he's also a good leader for the team, which is something we lack.

We did not have a single LB yet ended up loaning out Ake and Baba. I will count the players on loan, when I actually see them in the squad.

I am not asking for a back-line of aina-Jake clarke salter-Andreas-ake. But at the least lets not spend 30mil on a 29 year old who is a liability and does not improve us one bit.

Have to say the idea is growing on me after initial doubts. The crucial thing is that there's not too many ball-playing centre backs out there and Conte must feel that Luiz can fit into the style of football he wants to play. 

Luiz's style might well suit us under Conte in a way it didn't under Mourinho who had us play a more defensive formation.

Luiz is quick, good on the ball, with an eye for a pass, and good going forward. We're not buying him to just stay back and defend. We've got Cahill for that. That's not what Conte wants him for. Although Luiz can defend too when he's focused.

So, overall, I'm inclined to trust the manager on this.

1 minute ago, Remodez said:

Of course but we aren't in a position to complain about prices after leaving it this late. 

There's players out there if they looked. Fonte would be a good stop gap. Cheaper and better than Luiz.

1 minute ago, evissy said:

Johnny Evans is a ManU rat who is a mediocre player and an opposite of the word exciting. Luiz is more than just exciting. For example vs Chelsea in CL he was pretty good. 

True. "Exciting", "Marketable". Those are the tags i associate with Luiz. Not "good defender"

2 minutes ago, ellmo16 said:

I don't believe there will be an in-between, Luiz will either be amazing, or he will be s**t. BUT I'm a glass half full guy so I'm looking at the positives more than the negatives.

I think the problem with Dave is that he's very capable of being both amazing AND sh*t, which is what causes such a split in peoples opinions of him. He can be the best defender in the world for 85 minutes, bang in a screamer from 40 yards but then just have 5 minutes where he seems to forget what his name is, or why these strange man are running towards him with a football. I love him, but I think he'll always be prone to that crazy moments.

1 minute ago, Scott Harris said:

United would never sell Smalling to us, i also don't think he is anything special. Jones is average at everything and always injured. Sakho is as hit and miss as Luiz, it's possible that he is even more hit and miss than Luiz, i have seen Sakho put in some terrible performances for Liverpool.

If you are purely looking at defensive cover for a year until Christiansen and a well though out, well executed defensive transfer comes in then yes, id have taken them and Calum Chambers, over spending £32mil on Luiz or £60mil on Koubaily. Our first choice players are not that bad that we can make a real run at 3/4th especially with less games, thats what we SHOULD be doing, keeping our powder dry for next summer. However we have now left even this too late and are left with the only real choice I can see.

29 minutes ago, Shotgun883 said:

He may not be that man, but right now we do actually NEED someone. Maizga is unproven, Terry and Cahill are our first choice who came 10th last year hardly keeping a clean sheet. Zouma has f**ked his ACL, from which there is a decent chance he will never be the same again, Ivanovic is a 5/10 defender at the best of times, Dave is quality, playing out of position. 

I don't think we do, at least not so desperately that we should plunge blindly for the nearest available player. I would rather have us sign a left-back, which would allow Ivanovic to provide cover at centre back as well as at right-back. We'd have four more than adequate centre-backs, as well as three out-and-out full-backs to cover four positions during a season in which we don't have the added challenge of European football.

Ivanovic on his worst day is twice the defender Luiz is. I'd rather a brilliant defender who is ailing physically due to age than one who never had any concept of defensive decision-making to begin with.

 

"Luiz is passionate" - so is Joey Barton; we need more than that to go on if we are to sign a player.

7 minutes ago, didierforever said:

We did not have a single LB yet ended up loaning out Ake and Baba. I will count the players on loan, when I actually see them in the squad.

I am not asking for a back-line of aina-Jake clarke salter-Andreas-ake. But at the least lets not spend 30mil on a 29 year old who is a liability and does not improve us one bit.

If you think Luiz is a liability I hate to think what JCS would be like at his age. Just saying. United failed to qualify for the CL last year not because of Van Gaal, but because they placed too much faith in youth (albeit this was due to injuries, failure to establish a regular XI, etc)

Edited August 31, 20169 yr by the special one

If nothing else, it's another player the fans can actually have a connection with, he oozes passion on the pitch and it ups the level of those around him.

For me, he's a better defender than the majority we've been linked with, and considerably cheaper than some too (not to mention how big the wages would've had to have been for several, potentially upsetting other squad players earning less). 

I think everyone has a lot of the Brazil 6-0 loss stuck in their head from the WC final.

There is a reason Luiz was a 50 mil pound player. Maybe it was more than a defender is worth but he was a great player for Chelsea. 

He was a solid defender who had great mobility and was solid in the air and at making tackles on the ground. 

What might also be forgotten is how good his long passes are from the CB position. 

I remember him often threading beautiful passes into the flank areas and through passes into the striker. When you have Hazard, Costa and Willian that is a valuable skill to have in your back line.

3 minutes ago, didierforever said:

True. "Exciting", "Marketable". Those are the tags i associate with Luiz. Not "good defender"

When he can contain himself he can be a pretty good defender as well. His maturing and Conte can take the "crazy" out of his game...maybe. 

2 minutes ago, didierforever said:

We did not have a single LB yet ended up loaning out Ake and Baba. I will count the players on loan, when I actually see them in the squad.

I am not asking for a back-line of aina-Jake clarke salter-Andreas-ake. But at the least lets not spend 30mil on a 29 year old who is a liability and does not improve us one bit.

Azpilicueta is a left back. Also a right back. Aina is a left back. Also a right back. Yes i would have preferred to see Ake in the squad, but he's not as highly rated as Christensen is, he's almost a guarantee to come back into our squad at this point. 

Why do you keep bringing up his age? 29 is not old for a centre back. 30 million is standard money in this market, you wouldn't get any other seasoned vice captain of a national team for that money in this market. The club couldn't land our top targets for whatever reason. Luiz is a good alternative, we know what he is, we know what he isn't, and I'm sure Conte knows everything we know, multiplied by 50. 
 

On his day Titus Bramble could rival the best in the world. 

Just to think that we could have had Ashley Williams for £12m... ;)