Fair enough, @Nibs show me one thing about KdB while he was with us that, at the time, indicated he would be anything like as good as he is now.  We all had McCreachan and Kakuta as looking like world-beaters in the future.  How did that work out?

6 hours ago, Backbiter said:

They FA really need to start applying logic and consistency.

22 hours ago, Stim said:

Nah it's all good.

That's the  spirit! 

25 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

Fair enough, @Nibs show me one thing about KdB while he was with us that, at the time, indicated he would be anything like as good as he is now.  We all had McCreachan and Kakuta as looking like world-beaters in the future.  How did that work out?

Nonsense.

3 hours ago, yorkleyblue said:

I am sorry to come back to this "discussion", but I think that someone who was totally involved in the club at the time that KdB, Salah and Lukaku were here and then sold might, just MIGHT have a bit more insight than us fans, watching from the sidelines.  Interesting read from some bloke called John Terry,  reported in several places, that none of the "biggest mistake in footballing history, never given a chance, blah blah blah" revisionistas have bothered to post in here as it doesn't conform to their narrative.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/18/john-terry-no-regrets-chelsea-sold-kevin-de-bruyne-romelu-lukaku-mohamed-salah-7169940/

 

Relevant part for me is where JT says, in direct quotes, 

"Despite their respective incredible upturns since leaving Chelsea, former Blues captain Terry believes there should be no regrets at Stamford Bridge. ‘Not really, because at the time they didn’t make our team stronger,’ he told Sky Sports when asked if they should regret selling them. ‘Let’s not forget we were one of the best teams probably the Premier League has ever seen, in them early days when they arrived. ‘So they was coming into one of the best sides which was even more difficult. ‘When they come in can they make a big enough impact to sustain and keep their place? No, it’s very difficult to do."

The emboldening is me!  So, do I accept the whining from some people because some players got better when they got older and more experienced, or do I respect the opinion of the greatest Chelsea icon of the recent era?

My money is on JT.

I thank you.

The rest of the world says it was a big mistake and a awful nightmare for Mourinho, Yorkleyblue.

33 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

Fair enough, @Nibs show me one thing about KdB while he was with us that, at the time, indicated he would be anything like as good as he is now.  We all had McCreachan and Kakuta as looking like world-beaters in the future.  How did that work out?

.......theres' still time for McEachran to come good @yorkleyblue- surely you haven't written him off already?!!

 

On 18-12-2017 at 18:28, Scott Harris said:

True, but even back then, a lot of us were pointing out that Oscar started season's well and then faded badly in the second half of it. It may have been a bit shortsighted selling these players. At the same time though, we have won 2 league titles and a league cup, so we can't complain that much. Who knows, we may have won nothing if we had those players over the ones we have now.

No. With Kevin. you had won more.

Certainly the final against Bayern.

26 minutes ago, Krc-fan said:

Nonsense.

Just ONE thing Krc - go on, there must be one thing, at least.  Tell me when he showed anything like his present ability whilst wearing a Chelsea shirt.

19 minutes ago, Krc-fan said:

The rest of the world says it was a big mistake and a awful nightmare for Mourinho, Yorkleyblue.

The rest of the world weren't an integral part of the Chelsea inner circle at the time, Krc, so the rest of the world know NOTHING more than their own un-informed guesswork and gossip.  JT was a major part of the whole club set-up.  He is the only one with ANY actual knowledge who has commented publicly.

17 minutes ago, Nibs said:

.......theres' still time for McEachran to come good @yorkleyblue- surely you haven't written him off already?!!

 

Waiting to see him and Joey Cole tear up the Seniors 5-a-side in the future.

Edited December 21, 20178 yr by yorkleyblue

On 20-12-2017 at 06:23, Stim said:

I actively saw how he was playing, and Plokoon confirmed he was playing his best football, and I respect his opinion, as I'm sure others do way more than my own so just take his word for it. 

There has been plenty mistakes. Oscar was also a long term prospect, and was delivering, so was playing. To say we should have dropped him to carry KDB through games, and he needed to be carried at the time, is just arguing with hindsight. At the time Oscar was the player who deserved to start. And even then, there was a point where him and Mata actually had similar minutes played, but i can't remember the specifics. Hell, Oscar is actually the same age as KDB. I am always going to lose when arguing in hindsight, but at the time it was the right decision to be play oscar.

He was outperforming, which thus gave him more opportunities.

Oscar was not the problem.

The problem was the choice between Kevin and Schürrle and the alter ego from the manager and his stubbornness.

 

'What is your problem with Kevin, Mourinho?' was the world football question that time.

Edited December 21, 20178 yr by Krc-fan

13 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

Just ONE thing Krc - go on, there must be one thing, at least.  Tell me when he showed anything like his present ability whilst wearing a Chelsea shirt.

The rest of the world weren't an integral part of the Chelsea inner circle at the time, Krc, so the rest of the world know NOTHING more than their own un-informed guesswork and gossip.  JT was a major part of the whole club set-up.  He is the only one with ANY actual knowledge who has commented publicly.

Why do you think Chelsea bought the kid, my friend?

 

Almost ervery week there was a chelsea scout in our stadium.

Side by side, with the Barcelona scout, and Real Madrid, and Man. C. and U. and all the dutch, french and german teams. It was not only for Thibaut. At that time the world already knew there was something special with KDB.

 

He chose Chelsea.

 

Edited December 21, 20178 yr by Krc-fan

13 minutes ago, Krc-fan said:

Why do you think Chelsea bought the kid, my friend?

 

Almost ervery week there was a chelsea scout in our stadium.

Side by side, with the Barcelona scout, and Real Madrid, and Man. C. and U. and all the dutch, french and german teams. It was not only for Thibaut. At that time the world already knew there was something special with KDB.

 

He chose Chelsea.

 

Aww, bless you.  I know you have a long and meaningful love for the boy, and I cannot deny that he has turned out to be quite good, but he never did a thing at Chelsea to say why he shouldn't be sold on.  It was right at the time, and is only looking like a mistake with 20/20 hindsight.  Unfortunately, the world cannot run on hindsight.

Most people who had ever watched him knew it was a big mistake to sell him. He was still young and learning, he could ping a ball 60 yards and find a teammate on a regular basis, he had a hell of a shot on him, he was the closest we had to another Lampard. He proved himself more than capable on loan, with 10 goals, but Mourinho just didn't give him enough of a chance. Same with lots of players. Same with RLC. How is any young player - still maturing, still learning and adapting - supposed to prove themselves with a few minutes here and a few minutes there?

Jose won the league, yes, but he went massively short-term to do so. If he'd looked at the long-term picture, we may not have won the league under him that season, but we may have been in a much healthier position squad wise then we ended up being, and won more in the future as a result. It's impossible to say, but it is not true to say it's only looking like a mistake in hindsight, when it was clear as day he was going to become a top player.

Edited December 21, 20178 yr by Zeta

Thank you, Zeta!

1 hour ago, yorkleyblue said:

Aww, bless you.  I know you have a long and meaningful love for the boy, and I cannot deny that he has turned out to be quite good, but he never did a thing at Chelsea to say why he shouldn't be sold on.  It was right at the time, and is only looking like a mistake with 20/20 hindsight.  Unfortunately, the world cannot run on hindsight.

Thank you for the bless, YB. It has nothing to do with love. It's a fair communication about a very good player and 425 Chelsea minutes in several games, while he was already a football sensation in Belgium and Germany. That's also no hindsight but science.

No chance is no chance. Clear.

If the new Messi can't impress against the mighty Swindon Town, when he was by far the worst player on the field, then he is not, at that stage, showing anything more than potential.

(Just as an aside, whatever happened to the Marin, German Messi)

We'll have to agree to disagree on this.  I'm not saying he isn't good now, I'm saying that he showed nothing whilst with Chelsea to prove he should not be sold and that he should replace any of Lampard, Oscar, Schurrle, Mata, blah-di-blah-di-blah.

It's not really about "wasn't given a chance".  He had to earn that chance, and his performances, and probably his performances in training, obviously did not warrant that elusive "chance".

Right thing to sell him on, possibly would strengthen our squad currently, but he thrives in a totally different system, with totally different tactics and players to our current set up, so I'm not even 100% convinced about that.

Edited December 21, 20178 yr by yorkleyblue

On the opening day of the 2014-2015 season Kevin De Bruyne started and was arguably our best player on the day in win against Hull. For some reason it all went sour from there with Mourinho, and granted he was poor against Swindon and in another League Cup game, Sunderland I believe. That said, I followed him closely on loan and knew how much talent he had. I honestly think any other manager in world football than Mourinho, who can't be bothered with young players and who invariably favours industry over skill, would have given KDB enough time to prove himself. 

On a side note though, Salah never showed much of anything for us and, whilst he played well at Rome, I don't think anyone could really have foreseen him developing so much this quickly since.

Talking (writing) about the migthy Swindon Town is a cheap excuse when Chelsea had a golden opportunity with Kevin de Bruyne, my dear forum friends.

 

 

 

(Chelsea didn't sell him, YB. He left.)

any one else watching the game ?

I am. Imagine doing your hamstring trying to catch Ozil - how embarassing lol!

 

can't stand Klopp

8 minutes ago, DidierDrogbalala said:

any one else watching the game ?

Damn Friday night football, made me miss my chance to change my fantasy football team 

Also, who makes the decision to have one of the big games on a Friday ? The fixture scheduling is getting worse by the season.

On 21/12/2017 at 16:02, yorkleyblue said:

Just ONE thing Krc - go on, there must be one thing, at least.  Tell me when he showed anything like his present ability whilst wearing a Chelsea shirt.

The rest of the world weren't an integral part of the Chelsea inner circle at the time, Krc, so the rest of the world know NOTHING more than their own un-informed guesswork and gossip.  JT was a major part of the whole club set-up.  He is the only one with ANY actual knowledge who has commented publicly.

In how many starts?, wow KDB was given such a big chance under Mourinho. Mourinho makes mistakes with players because of his personality and short term success, once Shaw leaves we will see it again.

Arsenal leaving a lot of space. Has Wenger actually watched Liverpool play?

1 minute ago, Zeta said:

Arsenal leaving a lot of space. Has Wenger actually watched Liverpool play?

Watching Arsenals defending for that goal was painful.