1 hour ago, Munkworth said:

Jesus fella, how terribly are you treating women that you’d have to give up your whole life? 

Iv'e been married 32 years, 1 daughter, 5 granddaughters, i know how to treat a woman mate. My point was that you cant go through life covering your arse for every event. If its just dating your talking about fair enough i have no relevant experience of late, the last time i had to go through all that was 35 years ago.

No. You're completely wrong. You seem to assume that everyone accused has done something wrong.  Being accused doesn't mean you didn't get consent . I'm amazed I'm having to explain this.

No I don't assume everyone accuse is guilty or didn't get consent.

I know what it's like to always been seen a guilty or suspicious [emoji2365]

Just now, Brutos said:

No I don't assume everyone accuse is guilty or didn't get consent.

I know what it's like to always been seen a guilty or suspicious

you should know better then. whats the point having a legal system if proven innocent people have their lives tarnished by false accusations? 

If somebody is proven to have committed rape beyond reasonable doubt, then its right for them to expect severe punishment on par with manslaughter/murder.

2 minutes ago, Brutos said:

No I don't assume everyone accuse is guilty or didn't get consent.

I know what it's like to always been seen a guilty or suspicious

You need to read what you've been posting because you've very clearly said,

"No having sex with a woman without fully understanding the situation put you at risk, not just having sex if that was the case you would get accusations like this so much more."

The only way you can believe that quote is if you assume the accused did something wrong. You can do everything right and still get accused of rape. It happens

As for Hudson Odoi, he hasn't even been charged yet, so I don't have an opinion on it. Being arrested doesn't mean anything. We will see what happens, but he is innocent until proven guilty.

 

Objectively his behavior is wrong already and you can't argue that.

The police arrested him and he was released on bail, he is set to return to them somewhere in mid June meaning around 4-5 weeks from now, they wouldn't have arrested him for no reason at all, the woman that was with him went to the hospital and the police searched his flat for evidence.

He has money and is a public figure and he's young as well and he plays for England, it's very possible that he even gets away with something horrible that he did only because he's a football player, Marcus Alonso ran over a person with his car, the person died and he walked away scot-free.
Cristiano Ronaldo that is arguably the best European ever to play the game raped a girl in 2009, paid her 300k to keep her quiet, first he denied everything until the point he couldn't deny anything so now he's saying that it was consensual sex and the investigation is still going on, but due to the fact that he has good lawyers it's still doubtful that the girl will ever be able to prove that he was abusing her.
In Sweden a former boxer admitted that he paid for sex but what it turned out that he could be charged for rape as the person he was with is basically a victim of human trafficking and she didn't want to have sex with him but was forced, he went out in public after he was arrested so that he may get a weaker sentence as the judge might look at him from a more meek perspective.

So just because CHO isn't proved guilty yet, it doesn't mean that we should spin this whole story to the point where people are saying that "you would need to give up your whole life in order to be free of a rape accusation", that is ridiculous, the girl was taken by the ambulance if she was just plainly shook they might have chosen not to take her due to the Corona virus because it wouldn't be an emergency...but they took her in, at this point you would need to think that the police took CHO for no reason at all and that the ambulance took the girl for no reason at all, clearly something happened that night. So if there is this huge smoke, we might see a fire as well in due time.

But CHO has a powerful club behind him and there is a chance that even if he did something horrible that he might go unpunished, let's not be so strict with the "He did nothing wrong" because just as we don't know if he did something we can't be sure that he didn't do anything wrong either, if a girl says stop it means to stop regardless if you started off well, do I really need to say these things?!?

It's wrong to automatically think that CHO did something very bad but IMO it's equally wrong to blindly defend him at this point also, "you can do everything right and still be accused of rape" is basically saying that a girl by default shouldn't be trusted, if CHO had done ANYTHING right, he wouldn't have been arrested in the first place. He already broke the rules by inviting a random person inside his home, he will miss some training sessions most likely and he will need to be tested for the virus once again and if he's negative then he will join the team. He was one of the first players to be positive for the virus months ago.

Wouldn't be the first 19 year old full of himself and thinking that he's the next big star that abused someone just because he thinks he can do whatever he wants.

23 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Objectively his behavior is wrong already and you can't argue that.

The police arrested him and he was released on bail, he is set to return to them somewhere in mid June meaning around 4-5 weeks from now, they wouldn't have arrested him for no reason at all, the woman that was with him went to the hospital and the police searched his flat for evidence.

He has money and is a public figure and he's young as well and he plays for England, it's very possible that he even gets away with something horrible that he did only because he's a football player, Marcus Alonso ran over a person with his car, the person died and he walked away scot-free.
Cristiano Ronaldo that is arguably the best European ever to play the game raped a girl in 2009, paid her 300k to keep her quiet, first he denied everything until the point he couldn't deny anything so now he's saying that it was consensual sex and the investigation is still going on, but due to the fact that he has good lawyers it's still doubtful that the girl will ever be able to prove that he was abusing her.
In Sweden a former boxer admitted that he paid for sex but what it turned out that he could be charged for rape as the person he was with is basically a victim of human trafficking and she didn't want to have sex with him but was forced, he went out in public after he was arrested so that he may get a weaker sentence as the judge might look at him from a more meek perspective.

So just because CHO isn't proved guilty yet, it doesn't mean that we should spin this whole story to the point where people are saying that "you would need to give up your whole life in order to be free of a rape accusation", that is ridiculous, the girl was taken by the ambulance if she was just plainly shook they might have chosen not to take her due to the Corona virus because it wouldn't be an emergency...but they took her in, at this point you would need to think that the police took CHO for no reason at all and that the ambulance took the girl for no reason at all, clearly something happened that night. So if there is this huge smoke, we might see a fire as well in due time.

But CHO has a powerful club behind him and there is a chance that even if he did something horrible that he might go unpunished, let's not be so strict with the "He did nothing wrong" because just as we don't know if he did something we can't be sure that he didn't do anything wrong either, if a girl says stop it means to stop regardless if you started off well, do I really need to say these things?!?

It's wrong to automatically think that CHO did something very bad but IMO it's equally wrong to blindly defend him at this point also, "you can do everything right and still be accused of rape" is basically saying that a girl by default shouldn't be trusted, if CHO had done ANYTHING right, he wouldn't have been arrested in the first place. He already broke the rules by inviting a random person inside his home, he will miss some training sessions most likely and he will need to be tested for the virus once again and if he's negative then he will join the team. He was one of the first players to be positive for the virus months ago.

Wouldn't be the first 19 year old full of himself and thinking that he's the next big star that abused someone just because he thinks he can do whatever he wants.

Youve just made a load of that up, no one has tried to spin the story as anything at all, certainly not "you would need to give up your whole life in order to be free of a rape accusation" as that was a totally different discussion to whether CHO is innocent or not. There hasnt been a single post on here claiming he is innocent, or that girls shouldnt be trusted etc. 

You argue that people shouldnt defend him or spin anything, then in your last sentence you basically judge him. How hypocritical.

Edited May 19, 20206 yr by dkw

29 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Objectively his behavior is wrong already and you can't argue that.

The police arrested him and he was released on bail, he is set to return to them somewhere in mid June meaning around 4-5 weeks from now, they wouldn't have arrested him for no reason at all, the woman that was with him went to the hospital and the police searched his flat for evidence.

He has money and is a public figure and he's young as well and he plays for England, it's very possible that he even gets away with something horrible that he did only because he's a football player, Marcus Alonso ran over a person with his car, the person died and he walked away scot-free.
Cristiano Ronaldo that is arguably the best European ever to play the game raped a girl in 2009, paid her 300k to keep her quiet, first he denied everything until the point he couldn't deny anything so now he's saying that it was consensual sex and the investigation is still going on, but due to the fact that he has good lawyers it's still doubtful that the girl will ever be able to prove that he was abusing her.

If an accusation of rape is made, the police will always take you in for questioning, guilty or not guilty, that is just how it goes.

Alonso didn't run somebody over, he crashed his car into a wall whilst being over the drinking limit and the passenger died. He didn't get away scot free either, he was charged. You may not agree with the charges, but the fact remains, he didn't get away scot free. 

As for Ronaldo, I really don't know what to think with that anymore. There has to be more to it than the bit I highlighted because if it was as simple as that, he would be in jail right now.

Edited May 19, 20206 yr by Scott Harris

I wouldn't be surprised if this a con job to extort money yet how naive can CHO be to indulge in this while the Corona Virus is still societie's big concern. 

1 minute ago, dkw said:

Youve just made a load of that up, no one has tried to spin the story as anything at all, certainly not "you would need to give up your whole life in order to be free of a rape accusation" as that was a totally different discussion to whether CHO is innocent or not. There hasnt been a single post on here claiming he is innocent, or that girls shouldnt be trusted etc. 

You argue that people shouldnt defend him or spin anything, then in your last sentence you basically judge him. How hypocritical.

The discussion was that you should never put yourself in a situation where a woman can accuse you of rape, the response was that it's basically impossible to do so and further comments only boosted that opinion, you were talking about 1 case where a woman fabricated a whole bunch of charges and finally a person said that you can basically do everything right and still be accused of rape. So the incentive is that the girl might have just fabricated it all and thus CHO did nothing wrong.

I'm openly putting it out there, just as you and others may have the view by default that it's very easy to be accused of rape I'm saying that it's also very easy for a young person in CHO's position to actually harm someone thinking that he can do whatever he pleases. If it's hypocritical to say that he might be guilty just as he might not be guilty then so be it, at least I'm open for both possibilities. 

3 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

The discussion was that you should never put yourself in a situation where a woman can accuse you of rape, the response was that it's basically impossible to do so and further comments only boosted that opinion, you were talking about 1 case where a woman fabricated a whole bunch of charges and finally a person said that you can basically do everything right and still be accused of rape. So the incentive is that the girl might have just fabricated it all and thus CHO did nothing wrong.

I'm openly putting it out there, just as you and others may have the view by default that it's very easy to be accused of rape I'm saying that it's also very easy for a young person in CHO's position to actually harm someone thinking that he can do whatever he pleases. If it's hypocritical to say that he might be guilty just as he might not be guilty then so be it, at least I'm open for both possibilities. 

No it bloody well wasnt, dont you dare put words into my mouth like that.

2 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I'm saying that it's also very easy for a young person in CHO's position to actually harm someone thinking that he can do whatever he pleases.

What do you mean its easy for him to harm someone in his position ? What position is that ? Hitlers right hand man ?

2 minutes ago, coco said:

What do you mean its easy for him to harm someone in his position ? What position is that ? Hitlers right hand man ?

Thank goodness gol15 isn’t a footballer. With that mindset half of us on here would be dead by now.

11 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

If an accusation of rape is made, the police will always take you in for questioning, guilty or not guilty, that is just how it goes.

Alonso didn't run somebody over, he crashed his car into a wall whilst being over the drinking limit and the passenger died. He didn't get away scot free either, he was charged. You may not agree with the charges, but the fact remains, he didn't get away scot free. 

As for Ronaldo, I really don't know what to think with that anymore. There has to be more to it than the bit I highlighted because if it was as simple as that, he would be in jail right now.

If Alonso wasn't a professional football player he would have got a real punishment, he was driving over 110km/h and was super drunk and because of it a 22 year old girl died. Now what was his punishment? Ah he paid what was his weekly salary and lost his drivers licence for some years. That was it. An average person wouldn't get that type of punishment for that crime.

Juventus cancelled their pre season tour in the US because of Ronaldo, they didn't want to risk him being arrested for questioning. You can read a lot about his case, he doesn't look innocent at all but he's far too rich to go to jail, too many people depend on him while he's an active player. 

8 minutes ago, coco said:

What do you mean its easy for him to harm someone in his position ? What position is that ? Hitlers right hand man ?

He's young and has the fame in his head, he may think that he can do whatever he wants, this is maybe why he invited the person in the first place when it was clearly forbidden no? He doesn't need to be anything other than a silly young person that made a big mistake.

9 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

Thank goodness gol15 isn’t a footballer. With that mindset half of us on here would be dead by now.

I wouldn't break the rules he already broke, he put others in danger because he was what? Horny? Not thinking straight? Drunk? People are dying from this virus, he doesn't seem to care about that but more about his own personal urges. What kind of a mindset is that? Not mine, that's for sure. 

CHO truly is a knucklehead of the highest order.  Is that a word used over in England to denote total stupidity?

27 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

If Alonso wasn't a professional football player he would have got a real punishment, he was driving over 110km/h and was super drunk and because of it a 22 year old girl died. Now what was his punishment? Ah he paid what was his weekly salary and lost his drivers licence for some years. That was it. An average person wouldn't get that type of punishment for that crime.

Juventus cancelled their pre season tour in the US because of Ronaldo, they didn't want to risk him being arrested for questioning. You can read a lot about his case, he doesn't look innocent at all but he's far too rich to go to jail, too many people depend on him while he's an active player. 

Charges in Spain are handled very diffently to some other countries. You can even be given a prison sentence and not actually serve any of that time in prison, and this doesn't just apply to footballers. 

As for Ronaldo, it's like I said, I feel that there must be more to it. I don't have anything to go on, but I choose to believe that if there was proof that he raped somebody, then he would be in jail by now. 

52 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

He's young and has the fame in his head, he may think that he can do whatever he wants, this is maybe why he invited the person in the first place when it was clearly forbidden no? He doesn't need to be anything other than a silly young person that made a big mistake.

"He's young and has the fame in his head"  

So everyone who is 'young' and wants 'fame' should be forbidden from a fair trial and sent straight to prison ?

1 hour ago, Phillip said:

CHO truly is a knucklehead of the highest order.  Is that a word used over in England to denote total stupidity?

I'd use another word being with kb...knobhead

Forgetting the attempted rape allegation. Breaking the lockdown is just an act of plain stupidity and should be punished by the club.

Edited May 19, 20206 yr by charierre

3 minutes ago, coco said:

"He's young and has the fame in his head"  

So everyone who is 'young' and wants 'fame' should be forbidden from a fair trial and sent straight to prison ?

Ofc not, if you pay attention that is not what I argued for, I presented the idea that a trial might not even be fair to the girl because CHO is a big young talent, playing for England already and that has a whole career ahead of him, he's not a regular person in the society, but even so I fully believe that you should be open to the possibility that he might just be a guilty man too, that was my main point.

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

Objectively his behavior is wrong already and you can't argue that.

The police arrested him and he was released on bail, he is set to return to them somewhere in mid June meaning around 4-5 weeks from now, they wouldn't have arrested him for no reason at all, the woman that was with him went to the hospital and the police searched his flat for evidence.

He has money and is a public figure and he's young as well and he plays for England, it's very possible that he even gets away with something horrible that he did only because he's a football player, Marcus Alonso ran over a person with his car, the person died and he walked away scot-free.
Cristiano Ronaldo that is arguably the best European ever to play the game raped a girl in 2009, paid her 300k to keep her quiet, first he denied everything until the point he couldn't deny anything so now he's saying that it was consensual sex and the investigation is still going on, but due to the fact that he has good lawyers it's still doubtful that the girl will ever be able to prove that he was abusing her.
In Sweden a former boxer admitted that he paid for sex but what it turned out that he could be charged for rape as the person he was with is basically a victim of human trafficking and she didn't want to have sex with him but was forced, he went out in public after he was arrested so that he may get a weaker sentence as the judge might look at him from a more meek perspective.

So just because CHO isn't proved guilty yet, it doesn't mean that we should spin this whole story to the point where people are saying that "you would need to give up your whole life in order to be free of a rape accusation", that is ridiculous, the girl was taken by the ambulance if she was just plainly shook they might have chosen not to take her due to the Corona virus because it wouldn't be an emergency...but they took her in, at this point you would need to think that the police took CHO for no reason at all and that the ambulance took the girl for no reason at all, clearly something happened that night. So if there is this huge smoke, we might see a fire as well in due time.

But CHO has a powerful club behind him and there is a chance that even if he did something horrible that he might go unpunished, let's not be so strict with the "He did nothing wrong" because just as we don't know if he did something we can't be sure that he didn't do anything wrong either, if a girl says stop it means to stop regardless if you started off well, do I really need to say these things?!?

It's wrong to automatically think that CHO did something very bad but IMO it's equally wrong to blindly defend him at this point also, "you can do everything right and still be accused of rape" is basically saying that a girl by default shouldn't be trusted, if CHO had done ANYTHING right, he wouldn't have been arrested in the first place. He already broke the rules by inviting a random person inside his home, he will miss some training sessions most likely and he will need to be tested for the virus once again and if he's negative then he will join the team. He was one of the first players to be positive for the virus months ago.

Wouldn't be the first 19 year old full of himself and thinking that he's the next big star that abused someone just because he thinks he can do whatever he wants.

This is a silly thing you just said. You seem very ignorant when it comes to the legal system.

Police arrest lots of people every day when someone hasn't done anything wrong. Police will arrest anyone accused of rape, even if it turns out they didn't do it. It's just the start of the investigation and he hasn't even been charged yet. Being charged doesn't even mean you've done anything wrong either and he's not even at that stage yet. Her going to the hospital also doesn't mean anything either and is what I would expect to happen.

 

I haven't seen anyone say he's innocent (can you quote any post saying that?). No one should have an opinion on if he is guilty or not at this stage. Just wait and see what happens.

5 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Ofc not, if you pay attention that is not what I argued for, I presented the idea that a trial might not even be fair to the girl because CHO is a big young talent, playing for England already and that has a whole career ahead of him, he's not a regular person in the society, but even so I fully believe that you should be open to the possibility that he might just be a guilty man too, that was my main point.

Why do i have to be 'open' about which way it goes ? just let the CPS decided if he needs to go to trial ,then wait until thats finished, then judge him.

38 minutes ago, coco said:

Why do i have to be 'open' about which way it goes ? just let the CPS decided if he needs to go to trial ,then wait until thats finished, then judge him.

You’re making yourself look a fool in this thread mate. Why be sensible when we can jump to wild conclusions from speculation! Come on, give your head a wobble and come up with a good, proper conspiracy!

The rule really should be that you don't invite rando half-naked women to your house if you're a wealthy public figure. I know this is a very hard rule to follow when you're a superstar teenage millionaire. I don't know what happened but I can say for 100% certain that CHO made a poor life choice here.