1 minute ago, PhilH930 said:

If he can't get in that 11, well then he should leave.  We have a manager that insists on play central midfielders as wingers, in games calling out for pace and the pitch to be stretched wide.  

He's got no chance of starting when Ziyech and Pulisic are back,  Actually feel for him, and if he can develop into the talent we believe he has, then yes, he probably should look to leave.  Frank is not the right manager to develop Odoi.

So none of it is hudson odois fault, you're certain of that? You don't think he would be playing if he was offering what the manager demands in training? 

I don't know what he does during training sessions but if Lampard doesn't like him he has no future here. He should be getting some playtime now that we have no natural wingers.

But as it stands Mount will play every game just like last season and it doesn't matter what position he's playing, that's how much Lampard trusts Mount and how little he trusts CHO.

25 minutes ago, dkw said:

So none of it is hudson odois fault, you're certain of that? You don't think he would be playing if he was offering what the manager demands in training? 

Out of curiosity dkw, what was your opinion on it under Sarri? (Not a sly dig, I genuinely can’t remember).

 

I’m not buying the it’s Callum’s fault. He’s posted multiple times on his social media that he’s training on his days off. He performed well against Bayern the last time he got a game, done well for England and is training on his days off. What can Lampard possibly want more from him? Especially when he’s the only fit winger.

 

Personally, I think he should be playing - we’ve looked poor in both games without natural wingers. Not every top player is a world class trainer. If he leaves, it’ll be De Bruyne all over again. 

Edited September 20, 20205 yr by EdinburghBlue

3 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Out of curiosity dkw, what was your opinion on it under Sarri? (Not a sly dig, I genuinely can’t remember).

 

 

On what mate, sorry I don't get your question. 

I honestly dont think it's effort that's the problem, it sounds more like an attitude thing the way Frank talks about it. I would ld love nothing more than to see him in the team ripping defences apart, and I'm sure his manager would too. I can't see any reasdon for him not be playing other than a problem away from matches. 

Edited September 20, 20205 yr by dkw

3 hours ago, DidierDrogbalala said:

Seeing whats going on with Alli at Spurs you have to wonder if we dont have the same kind of situation here with Callum. Was very good for a short period of time at a young age, gets paid and all of the sudden things are not working for them, both managers call them out asking for more focus and dedication in trainning.

Alli is 24... CHO is 19. Alli has also had years of being a regular at Spurs to make a case. Callum hardly gets a look in. It’s hardly a fair comparison.

Just now, dkw said:

On what mate, sorry I don't get your question. 

I honestly dont think it's effort that's the problem, it sounds more like an attitude thing the way Frank talks about it. 

The fact Callum wasn’t getting a game when (most of us) were crying out for him to be playing. I don’t remember seeing anyone saying it could be down to Callum when Sarri wasn’t playing him. So I was just asking which side you fell on it back then.

Maybe you’re right mate but training on his days off would appear from the outside like a good attitude to me. Of course, there’s more to it than just that - but as I say, many of us could have said the same when he wasn’t playing under Sarri but we didn’t.

Can he play in goal?

Ah right, I can't remember, but I'm fairly sure it will be the same as now, wanting him in the team tearing it up, but only if he deserves it and it fits the game plan in that match. I've always had the same attitude to every manager, they get to pick who they think is right and live and die it. 

1 minute ago, Gem said:

Can he play in goal?

Can you? 

Anything is better than Mason Mount out wide surely? Putting central midfielders outwide is very annoying.

2 minutes ago, dkw said:

Ah right, I can't remember, but I'm fairly sure it will be the same as now, wanting him in the team tearing it up, but only if he deserves it and it fits the game plan in that match. I've always had the same attitude to every manager, they get to pick who they think is right and live and die it. 

Fair enough then mate. I think if you need to have faith in young players - it could help him knuckle down if he knows he’s got the chance of a game but if he’s going week to week knowing he’s probably not going to play I imagine it is demoralising. I was a petulant little sh*t when I wasn’t playing at 19, admittedly I wasn’t being paid a fortune or a professional athlete but he’s still just a young lad. I think playing would possibly give him the focus Frank is looking for.

2 minutes ago, dkw said:

Can you? 

At this stage, we could get away with this and it would be an improvement:

4 minutes ago, dkw said:

Can you? 

It’s not my strongest position. 

Just like it’s not Kepa’s.

ffs I can’t help it 😑 I’m full agenda mode. 

19 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

The less he plays the better he becomes... 

Reminds me of how Rudiger became peak Cannavaro in here when he was out injured.

Just now, abramovich said:

Reminds me of how Rudiger became peak Cannavaro in here when he was out injured.

Ruidger was our best defender for 2 seasons though. Only last season did he play poorly.

1 minute ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Fair enough then mate. I think if you need to have faith in young players - it could help him knuckle down if he knows he’s got the chance of a game but if he’s going week to week knowing he’s probably not going to play I imagine it is demoralising. I was a petulant little sh*t when I wasn’t playing at 19, admittedly I wasn’t being paid a fortune or a professional athlete but he’s still just a young lad. I think playing would possibly give him the focus Frank is looking for.

At this stage, we could get away with this and it would be an improvement:

I think the way pulisic was handled makes me question Hudson Odoi. He was given a very similar dressing down by Frank, yet weeks later was in the team and was never dropped after that, he kicked on massively. I think that in itself shows Frank is willing to back his young players if they give what he wants. 

2 minutes ago, dkw said:

I think the way pulisic was handled makes me question Hudson Odoi. He was given a very similar dressing down by Frank, yet weeks later was in the team and was never dropped after that, he kicked on massively. I think that in itself shows Frank is willing to back his young players if they give what he wants. 

I get that but it was slightly different, Pulisic was new to the league, new to the team & wasn’t our only fit winger. It doesn’t bode well for CHO that he’s not getting a look in as our only natural winger - it wouldn’t surprise me if he was on the move in the next year and I think we’ll regret it in the future.

1 minute ago, EdinburghBlue said:

I get that but it was slightly different, Pulisic was new to the league, new to the team & wasn’t our only fit winger. It doesn’t bode well for CHO that he’s not getting a look in as our only natural winger - it wouldn’t surprise me if he was on the move in the next year and I think we’ll regret it in the future.

Lampard Put Pedro on instead of Hudson Odoi in the Fa cup final when Pulisic went off injured and Pedro was leaving too. That speak volumes

15 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

I get that but it was slightly different, Pulisic was new to the league, new to the team & wasn’t our only fit winger. It doesn’t bode well for CHO that he’s not getting a look in as our only natural winger - it wouldn’t surprise me if he was on the move in the next year and I think we’ll regret it in the future.

I think we would regret it too, I'm still hopeful it all gets sorted and he spends years with us. 

1 hour ago, abramovich said:

You don't blame him for not understanding he needs to up his workrate to get playing time or for not working hard enough to convince the manager he deserves to play?

Probably clumsy wording from me.

I was thinking of Mount being picked before him as a winger. Mount is by all accounts an average winger at best, i'd say a poor winger myself. And that will be hard to take for Callum who's had the best club in Europe fairly desperate to sign him. To go from that to seemingly being dead last in the pecking order behind central midfielders out of position surely will have an impact on his motivation and state of mind currently.

In many ways I think he regrets signing that contract now.

 

57 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Out of curiosity dkw, what was your opinion on it under Sarri? (Not a sly dig, I genuinely can’t remember).

I’m not buying the it’s Callum’s fault. He’s posted multiple times on his social media that he’s training on his days off. He performed well against Bayern the last time he got a game, done well for England and is training on his days off. What can Lampard possibly want more from him? Especially when he’s the only fit winger.

Personally, I think he should be playing - we’ve looked poor in both games without natural wingers. Not every top player is a world class trainer. If he leaves, it’ll be De Bruyne all over again. 

Or maybe Sarri was telling the truth when he said it would take 3-4 years for CHO to be fully ready.

There's more ways to develop a youngster than giving them every minute god sends, Barca's La Masia are an example of that, they very rarely make a player a regular before 20, Fati is only the second i can remember bar Messi and they do allright.

22 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Probably clumsy wording from me.

I was thinking of Mount being picked before him as a winger. Mount is by all accounts an average winger at best, i'd say a poor winger myself. And that will be hard to take for Callum who's had the best club in Europe fairly desperate to sign him. To go from that to seemingly being dead last in the pecking order behind central midfielders out of position surely will have an impact on his motivation and state of mind currently.

In many ways I think he regrets signing that contract now.

 

Or maybe Bayern withdrew from pursuing CHO once he got that major injury and moved on to other targets. Why did he sign that contract unless Bayern moved on? If the Germans were still serious about  signing CHO in the summer of 2019 we'd have no other choice but sell him with his old contract running out at the end of 2019-20 season. It would have been Courtous situation all over again with the same outcome. 

Let's not make him a victim now. He's still very young, has got a long career ahead of him and has a very lucrative contract at one of the top European clubs. Most people wish they had his problems.

Edited September 20, 20205 yr by abramovich

1 hour ago, PhilH930 said:

If he can't get in that 11, well then he should leave.  We have a manager that insists on play central midfielders as wingers, in games calling out for pace and the pitch to be stretched wide.  

He's got no chance of starting when Ziyech and Pulisic are back,  Actually feel for him, and if he can develop into the talent we believe he has, then yes, he probably should look to leave.  Frank is not the right manager to develop Odoi.

 

Sadly, Odoi is no longer a 17 year old kid that needs to be develop. He's a full professional that's earning over 100k a week, it's time for him to produce both in training and in games.

That's how he will earn his place on the pitch.

Frank is the most patient manager with the youth we've ever had. Odoi had most of the last season, actually I don't remember, did he recover for the start of the campaign? Anyway he has had plenty of chance in a very strange season and he is obviously going to have chances this season with the injury prone stars like Ziyech and Pulisic. If he is not training well and can't make a case for himself with tons of injuries in the team, if his flashes on the pitch are usually dogs**t and let's face the reality, they really have been, then you should simply accept that he is just not good enough. 

These 70-ish millions from Munich could have made the Kepa fiasco much easier to swallow. 

Edited September 20, 20205 yr by Droopy

3 hours ago, dkw said:

So none of it is hudson odois fault, you're certain of that? You don't think he would be playing if he was offering what the manager demands in training? 

That is a fair point - it certainly is a two way street.  Issue is, Frank's driving on a one way road.  Would love to be a fly on the wall at training to see what the apparent gap it.

1 hour ago, haviet1 said:

 

Sadly, Odoi is no longer a 17 year old kid that needs to be develop. He's a full professional that's earning over 100k a week, it's time for him to produce both in training and in games.

That's how he will earn his place on the pitch.

I'm not sure I fully agree with this.  Yes, it must produce in training and in games, but players develop/learn throughout their career and it is the coaching teams responsibility to unlock that.