4-1-4-1 . Luiz in front of the back four, which woul give a bit more protection than Jorginho gives.  Jorginho a bit further foward, that would make better use of his quick passing.

Come on Juve make us an offer. Move him on, give Ampadu the minutes.

8 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Come on Juve make us an offer. Move him on, give Ampadu the minutes.

I get that a lot of people want our loan army to shrink, but I really think Ampadu needs a Championship or bottom to mid tier level PL loan.  He’s not on the same level that CHO was, so even with Lampard potentially coming in, I think it’s going to be hard for him to get time on the pitch here, especially with Mount coming back.

If we see him as a center half, then I still don’t see him getting time on the pitch until Luiz’s contract runs out.

He’s definitely got a future here, but still a couple years out I think.

48 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Come on Juve make us an offer. Move him on, give Ampadu the minutes.

How about no.

48 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Come on Juve make us an offer. Move him on, give Ampadu the minutes.

Ampadu is nowhere near ready to be a regular starter for a Champions League team. The kid needs a loan, and he should have gone on loan last season really.

Different eyes see things differently gentleman. I respect your opinions, personally I would look forward to seeing a midfield with Kante, Ampadu, Mount and RLC involved in some manner more than one with Barkley, Kovacic and Jorginho with Kante.

57 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Come on Juve make us an offer. Move him on, give Ampadu the minutes.

We will be playing youth no doubt so in a ban we need to keep all the first team players we can, Jorginho is a brilliant player, fans gave him no chance booed him and he showed personality and fought through it and finished the season very strongly he has at least 3 or 4 man of the match performances towards the end, I for one wouldn’t be keen at all to let him go. 

2 minutes ago, WalterWhiteCFC said:

We will be playing youth no doubt so in a ban we need to keep all the first team players we can, Jorginho is a brilliant player, fans gave him no chance booed him and he showed personality and fought through it and finished the season very strongly he has at least 3 or 4 man of the match performances towards the end, I for one wouldn’t be keen at all to let him go. 

Depends on 2 things for me. Firstly does our new manager want him, though I guess that is saying the obvious. Secondly does Jorginho want to be here he? Like you said our fans have hardly welcomed him and did he come because for the club or for Sarri?

1 minute ago, axman2526 said:

Depends on 2 things for me. Firstly does our new manager want him, though I guess that is saying the obvious. Secondly does Jorginho want to be here he? Like you said our fans have hardly welcomed him and did he come because for the club or for Sarri?

Well I think frank will play an attacking brand of football and he likes keeping hold of the call so I certainly think a player that can keep the ball moving and give us tempo will suit his style very well.

He also showed he has thick skin he was smiling not in a cheeky way but absorbing the booing which was out of order and he bounced back with top performances.

He is in the best league in the world, in London, has other Brazilians in the team, he has champions league football and will start every game so I don’t think he would want to leave and I think under the circumstances we would be very ill advised to sell him. 

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

Come on Juve make us an offer. Move him on, give Ampadu the minutes.

IMHO I can't seeing Juve making an offer for Jorginho. Currently they have Pjanić, Can & Khedira. Also Aaron Ramsey is coming into that side. All of those players can play as a Regista for Don Maurizio.

51 minutes ago, WalterWhiteCFC said:

Well I think frank will play an attacking brand of football and he likes keeping hold of the call so I certainly think a player that can keep the ball moving and give us tempo will suit his style very well.

He also showed he has thick skin he was smiling not in a cheeky way but absorbing the booing which was out of order and he bounced back with top performances.

He is in the best league in the world, in London, has other Brazilians in the team, he has champions league football and will start every game so I don’t think he would want to leave and I think under the circumstances we would be very ill advised to sell him. 

I think we can all acknowledge he is a good player. After the Carabao Cup match I thought he close to our best in our run at the end of the season.

But he is very much a system player. He works in Sarri's system and also to an extent in the Italian system where he and Veratti dicate and hold the ball. If Frank wants to play that sort of football great we should keep him. My instinct from what I saw of Derby is he will be slightly more direct and slightly more focussed on the press. This will likely mean Kante is a better fit in that role primarily for his work off the ball. 

No point in keeping him if he doesn't suit the style. On the other hand I think (sorry @robdog) the Juve midfield is horribly ill suited to his style of football (beyond Pjanic). Full of shuttlers like Matudi, Khedira, Can and Bentancur. I think he'll need Jorginho to get close to where he wants in terms of style of play. 

Edited June 16, 20197 yr by Spiller86

54 minutes ago, WalterWhiteCFC said:

Well I think frank will play an attacking brand of football and he likes keeping hold of the call so I certainly think a player that can keep the ball moving and give us tempo will suit his style very well.

He also showed he has thick skin he was smiling not in a cheeky way but absorbing the booing which was out of order and he bounced back with top performances.

He is in the best league in the world, in London, has other Brazilians in the team, he has champions league football and will start every game so I don’t think he would want to leave and I think under the circumstances we would be very ill advised to sell him. 

How about if the manager coming in is not Frank and is say Jose?

1 hour ago, Spiller86 said:

I think we can all acknowledge he is a good player. After the Carabao Cup match I thought he close to our best in our run at the end of the season.

But he is very much a system player. He works in Sarri's system and also to an extent in the Italian system where he and Veratti dicate and hold the ball. If Frank wants to play that sort of football great we should keep him. My instinct from what I saw of Derby is he will be slightly more direct and slightly more focussed on the press. This will likely mean Kante is a better fit in that role primarily for his work off the ball. 

No point in keeping him if he doesn't suit the style. On the other hand I think (sorry @robdog) the Juve midfield is horribly ill suited to his style of football (beyond Pjanic). Full of shuttlers like Matudi, Khedira, Can and Bentancur. I think he'll need Jorginho to get close to where he wants in terms of style of play. 

No need to apologize - btw don't forget about Ramsey - also can Bonucci play that role? IMHO his ball playing skills are top notch - perhaps better than his defending

51 minutes ago, robdog said:

No need to apologize - btw don't forget about Ramsey - also can Bonucci play that role? IMHO his ball playing skills are top notch - perhaps better than his defending

I imagine Ramsey will play further forward ala Ruben or Hamsik. But he's injured so often who knows what impact he will have.

Just on Bonucci sounds like another long curly haired defender we're familiar with...

3 hours ago, axman2526 said:

How about if the manager coming in is not Frank and is say Jose?

Well I suppose he could play in a 2 man pivot with kante like fab did it might work well for him and give him a bit of protection he can certainly defend better than cesc 

Edited June 17, 20197 yr by WalterWhiteCFC

4 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

I think we can all acknowledge he is a good player. After the Carabao Cup match I thought he close to our best in our run at the end of the season.

But he is very much a system player. He works in Sarri's system and also to an extent in the Italian system where he and Veratti dicate and hold the ball. If Frank wants to play that sort of football great we should keep him. My instinct from what I saw of Derby is he will be slightly more direct and slightly more focussed on the press. This will likely mean Kante is a better fit in that role primarily for his work off the ball. 

No point in keeping him if he doesn't suit the style. On the other hand I think (sorry @robdog) the Juve midfield is horribly ill suited to his style of football (beyond Pjanic). Full of shuttlers like Matudi, Khedira, Can and Bentancur. I think he'll need Jorginho to get close to where he wants in terms of style of play. 

I see your point but I don’t think he is as one dimentional as he is made out to be and considering our lack of players and his quality on the ball I’m sure whoever is coming in will make a way for him to fit, we are short in midfield I don’t see us selling to juve especially in these circumstances. 

4 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

I think we can all acknowledge he is a good player. After the Carabao Cup match I thought he close to our best in our run at the end of the season.

But he is very much a system player. He works in Sarri's system and also to an extent in the Italian system where he and Veratti dicate and hold the ball. If Frank wants to play that sort of football great we should keep him. My instinct from what I saw of Derby is he will be slightly more direct and slightly more focussed on the press. This will likely mean Kante is a better fit in that role primarily for his work off the ball. 

No point in keeping him if he doesn't suit the style. On the other hand I think (sorry @robdog) the Juve midfield is horribly ill suited to his style of football (beyond Pjanic). Full of shuttlers like Matudi, Khedira, Can and Bentancur. I think he'll need Jorginho to get close to where he wants in terms of style of play. 

I see your point but I don’t think he is as one dimentional as he is made out to be and considering our lack of players and his quality on the ball I’m sure whoever is coming in will make a way for him to fit, we are short in midfield I don’t see us selling to juve especially in these circumstances. 

if we got 100m for him id sell him but anything less, no hope.

If any manager is looking to play decent football, you need someone that can actually pass the ball.

If we got in a good CF (no hope with the ban) Jorginho and the other CMs would flourish, Giroud is too static and Higuain just isnt going to cut it.

8 hours ago, WalterWhiteCFC said:

Well I suppose he could play in a 2 man pivot with kante like fab did it might work well for him and give him a bit of protection he can certainly defend better than cesc 

The defence is short of protection, but in this City & Liverpool era of attacking and goals galore, that would  be far too defensive. We need both, but on balance, we need more creativity and goals over a bit more defensive protection. 

Edited June 17, 20197 yr by Dixons

13 hours ago, Dixons said:

The defence is short of protection, but in this City & Liverpool era of attacking and goals galore, that would  be far too defensive. We need both, but on balance, we need more creativity and goals over a bit more defensive protection. 

Well I was answering the question what if a defensive minded manager came in, but I think you can play a 2 man pivot and still play attacking football when you need to, of course a form of 4-3-3 for me would be preferable but in that you have to answer the kante question again.

If Jorginho stayed I can see a form of 4-4-2 or more like 4-4-1-1 but then you lose a bit of width...if you have a specialised player that only fits a few formations then a second specialised player in kante one is either going to have to play out of position or you sacrifice something in the system. 

I think today a lot of top managers believe in their system and are happy to put players out of position, it’s an age old debate in football make the players fit the system or make the system fit the players..

If we could somehow merge Kante and Jorginho together, we'd have the best DM on the planet.

But tbh, if we had a world class No. 10 or a world class No. 8, both Jorginho and Kante would fit in together

21 hours ago, WalterWhiteCFC said:

I see your point but I don’t think he is as one dimentional as he is made out to be and considering our lack of players and his quality on the ball I’m sure whoever is coming in will make a way for him to fit, we are short in midfield I don’t see us selling to juve especially in these circumstances. 

I think he is a good player no doubt. I just think he is a turnstyle without the ball. Makes it hard to press high because of the limited cover behind. Same as the issues with Cesc. Look at how Pep uses Fernandinho to cover behind their press. That's the way in my view. 

But all will depend on how SFL wants to play. We shall see in a few weeks!

“Chelsea have a four-year contract with the lad. We’ll wait a few days to figure out whether there is any truth in this interest mentioned in the papers.

“His past at Napoli won’t be an issue, because Jorginho is a professional. Right now, Jorginho is happy at Chelsea. He found a great atmosphere and we can’t really say that he’d like to go elsewhere, but anything can happen on the transfer market. We’ll wait and see…”

His agent said that to a italian newspaper today. Sounds like he'll want to go when/if Sarri wants him at Juventus.

Up to Sarri to convince them to buy him basically. If he does then he goes imo.

Whether juve want him or not we would be stupid to sell any first team players in these circumstances unless we have resigned to the fact of no top 4 and done care, as long as we cash in on everyone and have 200 million in the kitty for next season.

I would be fine with it if we still knew how to buy players, but who is it who actually buys players for us at the moment? 

I also have a feeling that even if we got the 130 for hazard, 40 for zouma, 50 for Jorginho, 20 for Emerson etc that Roman may not even spend all of it next season, lots of guesswork right now as to where the owners head is as far as his ambitions. 

It would also be a problem for me not giving frank at least a fighting chance this season, but maybe they have discussed with him cashing in, damage control this season and a hefty kitty next season.