1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

I'll indulge you.

Don't change a winning team? So is that the midfield with Gilmour from the last game or perhaps the one from the game before against City? Lampard IS changing the winning team.

We won our last game once Kovacic was subbed on. Explain that to me. Or did we win in spite of him coming on, not because of him coming on? He dominated the midfield the second he stepped on the pitch.

Argo started complaining about Lampard as soon as the break was over, days before our first match after the break, he was very much against Kante starting a game after 3 months of a break. Now that we are winning with Kante he's still complaining about what lineups Lampard selects.

I'm not saying that Kante or anyone else should be playing 5 games in a row now, I'm saying that he has no right to complain about who is starting and who isn't since we are winning games. Lampard isn't changing this new tactic with Kante + 2 more offensive midfielders, that's whats working right now. 

 

1 hour ago, Argo said:

"we can't change a team when winning"

Someone finds an example that doesn't suit the narrative.

"But that's different"

Your example doesn't fit. Simple as that. You can't compare 1 final where we simply couldn't play Ramires, Ivanovic and Terry (all key players) to this winning streak of a few games where Lampard CAN pick almost anyone if he wishes so. Try again.

23 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

 

I'm not saying that Kante or anyone else should be playing 5 games in a row now, I'm saying that he has no right to complain about who is starting and who isn't since we are winning games. Lampard isn't changing this new tactic with Kante + 2 more offensive midfielders, that's whats working right now. 

 

Your example doesn't fit. Simple as that. You can't compare 1 final where we simply couldn't play Ramires, Ivanovic and Terry (all key players) to this winning streak of a few games where Lampard CAN pick almost anyone if he wishes so. Try again.

 

Yet when we were winning games earlier this season without Kante then had some bad results after his return you were making excuse after excuse as to why it was misleading.

A few wins with him and all off a sudden results matter more than anything.

Which is it?

1 hour ago, dkw said:

He made a huge difference on sunday, he reminds me of Ballack the way he's always available for a pass, I bet the other players love playing with him as he's constantly an outlet. And there's a lot of faith in him, you can hit any ball at him and he controls it no matter the cover. I think he's definitely proven a few people wrong who were questioning his signing at the start of the season. 

Just a shame he can't shoot like Ballack...

3 minutes ago, Argo said:

Yet when we were winning games earlier this season without Kante then had some bad results after his return you were making excuse after excuse as to why it was misleading.

A few wins with him and all off a sudden results matter more than anything.

Which is it?

So wait a second...The biggest complaint was that he was playing too high up the pitch, I never made an argument about wins back then I simply didn't find him accountable for our losses.
(I didn't find any evidence that Kante was the reason for our losses and nobody could pinpoint him as the main cause for those losses either it was basically just "look at the win rate" which is very flawed)

But by all accounts, look, that has all changed now because the FACT IS he is playing much deeper and we are winning and you're the one STILL COMPLAINING ABOUT HIM.

So which is it, when will YOU be happy because in both cases (Kante playing higher and playing deeper) you seem to find faults where there are none!

Don't be vengeful towards Lampard just because Kova isn't starting games!

Gol15 and Slojo arguing in the Kovacic thread, the season really is back. 

4 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Just a shame he can't shoot like Ballack...

Ha ha, that's true. 

44 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

(I didn't find any evidence that Kante was the reason for our losses and nobody could pinpoint him as the main cause for those losses either it was basically just "look at the win rate" which is very flawed)

But your whole argument against Kova starting (I assume it's that as me saying he should is what caused you to come in with the counter off "we've won three in a row") was our recent wins one of which was largely down to him.

And neither did I say Kante was the whole reason, my argument was all the games where i watched where I thought it was a glimpse of the potential end product of this side he wasn't playing, I really liked the Jorgi, Kova and Mount midfield because when on song we were dominating games in ways we barely saw even with our title winning sides.

44 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Don't be vengeful towards Lampard just because Kova isn't starting games!

That's funny because when we lost games I was one of the people defending him and the main reason being the fact it's a process and a 2/3 year build to being a formidable side again and through all of that I was being branded a apologist. Part of a patient building process is to take the good things out of bad results and vice versa. This "doesn't matter look at the result" mindset was one of the main reason's we've fallen behind so far off the top in the first place, if not the main one.

I'm happy with the results this week but no I'm still not convinced Kante is a sitting DM, previous managers and coaches of ours felt the same, infact Zola said just that live on air.

If Lampard goes down this route long term then I will cross all my fingers that he's spotted something that Sarri and Conte missed, and I'll happily rejoice if that turns out to be the case, but I just can't see it, sorry!

Edited June 29, 20206 yr by Argo

On 21/06/2020 at 16:23, Argo said:

So not only does Kante walse back in he does it at the expense of the most deserving player to start on merit.

f**king hell I thought the one thing we would never have to worry about under Frank is players getting in on reputation given how vocal he was about Sven doing that.

You before Villa game 

18 hours ago, Gol15 said:

                   Kepa

James   Rudi    Zouma   Azpilicueta

              Jorginho 

Barkley                  Kovacic

Pedro                      Willian

             Tammy

Kante, Mount, Pulisic should get some rest.

West Ham has scored 0 goals in the last 3 games, all losses. This on paper should be an easy win no need to risk Kante and Pulisic here, expecting a 60% possession game with Barkley and Kovacic dominating.

Me yesterday.

Peace out.

I thought it was harsh to sub him off first last night.

7 hours ago, jack_super_class said:

I thought it was harsh to sub him off first last night.

Well he isn't really a game changer when we want to win it late, the first sub meant that Barkley and Mount had some time to try to break the opposition while Kante is covering them, after 10 min or so Barkley came off for RLC as well, Lampard wanted to win.

Would like to see RLC and Kovacic on together.

Think it would be good if RLC could read his runs and be ready to pick up Kova's lay-off.

I often think players need to read each others game, like Jimmy and Eidur or Fabregas and Costa.

 

15 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Well he isn't really a game changer when we want to win it late, the first sub meant that Barkley and Mount had some time to try to break the opposition while Kante is covering them, after 10 min or so Barkley came off for RLC as well, Lampard wanted to win.

Nah. Kova was limping a bit at the end of the first half and in the second half as well. Didn't look fully fit.

1 hour ago, Vagabond said:

Nah. Kova was limping a bit at the end of the first half and in the second half as well. Didn't look fully fit.

Didn't notice!

Edited July 2, 20206 yr by Gol15

1 hour ago, Strider6003 said:

Would like to see RLC and Kovacic on together.

Think it would be good if RLC could read his runs and be ready to pick up Kova's lay-off.

I often think players need to read each others game, like Jimmy and Eidur or Fabregas and Costa.

 

Great point but unfortunately I don't see Kova being part of such a dynamic duo. His dribbling ability is up there, but the price is too high. He is no good passer. Unlike Hazard, he can't find his teammates because his eyes are on the ball in his feet. 

1 hour ago, Droopy said:

Great point but unfortunately I don't see Kova being part of such a dynamic duo. His dribbling ability is up there, but the price is too high. He is no good passer. Unlike Hazard, he can't find his teammates because his eyes are on the ball in his feet. 

Interesting. I think his passing is excellent and am surprised it seems to go unnoticed. He played a sweet through ball to Tammy yesterday that a better forward might have done something with - score even. It’s just one example but I would say his final ball is usually good. Agree with Strider therefore about wanting to see him and RLC develop an understanding. 

1 hour ago, Droopy said:

Great point but unfortunately I don't see Kova being part of such a dynamic duo. His dribbling ability is up there, but the price is too high. He is no good passer. Unlike Hazard, he can't find his teammates because his eyes are on the ball in his feet. 

He's not a good passer? You've clearly not been watching him play then. 

2 hours ago, Droopy said:

Great point but unfortunately I don't see Kova being part of such a dynamic duo. His dribbling ability is up there, but the price is too high. He is no good passer. Unlike Hazard, he can't find his teammates because his eyes are on the ball in his feet. 

He's a natural passer when he's playing deeper and that's one of his good traits, he does get lost in the final third so you're right there but if he just starts shooting more it would benefit his game a lot.

I think where we see him in the last third is when he has had to dribble in the middle and thereby breaks the defensive lines, if he could be coached to offload the ball better he could be very special.

not sure if this was posted here. Mateo talks about playing at Chelsea & playing for Super Frankie Lampard

 

Im afraid that he will be gone in two or "Three" years. 

He just needs a bit more end product. Sometimes he fades away and there is no impact from him but with the right coaching he could be very influencial. The technique is there, good workrate and can drive forward. 

At worst he will be a good squad player. 

 

21 minutes ago, Nevamind said:

He just needs a bit more end product. Sometimes he fades away and there is no impact from him but with the right coaching he could be very influencial. The technique is there, good workrate and can drive forward. 

At worst he will be a good squad player. 

 

He wont be squad player. 

Edited July 12, 20206 yr by Dbstf0222

4 hours ago, Dbstf0222 said:

Im afraid that he will be gone in two or "Three" years. 

In 2 years he will still be in his peak...

I don't know about you lot, but whenever he starts he just plays well imo, I've only seen him play badly when he's came on as a late sub. We would be mad not to have this guy in our plans. 

I'd like to see him as the CDM next season with two with attacking firepower beside him.

Something like: Havertz - Kovacic - Mount

I think he's our best midfielder by some distance, have been all season.

Edited July 15, 20206 yr by Sindre