4 hours ago, Dean said:

To be fair, Slojo, Davey doesn’t seem to be saying Kovacic himself needs to be more physical, just that maybe the other CM should be. He’s also one of Kovacic’s key advocates on here though I suspect you know that and maybe I misinterpreted your post?

I'm adding to Davey's point, I'm not disagreeing with him. I know Davey isn't saying that lol. But like I just said, I'm just bewildered at the whole "Kovacic isn't Michael Essien" argument. As soon as Essien lost his pace he started to become a very limited player, this was all at the age of 28, he was a shadow of the player post 2010. So yes, Kovacic is the superior footballer by quite a distance, why does he need to be the Bison? Why does he need to be more physical? And why aren't people who are bringing this up not taking into account that he's 25 years old and still has a lot of potential, already he's getting written off on the notion that "Well he's not on Frank Lampards level is he"... Like good grief... 

4 hours ago, Slojo said:

I'm adding to Davey's point, I'm not disagreeing with him. I know Davey isn't saying that lol. But like I just said, I'm just bewildered at the whole "Kovacic isn't Michael Essien" argument. As soon as Essien lost his pace he started to become a very limited player, this was all at the age of 28, he was a shadow of the player post 2010. So yes, Kovacic is the superior footballer by quite a distance, why does he need to be the Bison? Why does he need to be more physical? And why aren't people who are bringing this up not taking into account that he's 25 years old and still has a lot of potential, already he's getting written off on the notion that "Well he's not on Frank Lampards level is he"... Like good grief... 

He's no academy player. Look at Mount, Tammy, RLC and CHO... all world class already or close to it according to our fanbase. Until they play against actual world class players, then it's time for all kinds of excuses.

7 hours ago, Slojo said:

I'm adding to Davey's point, I'm not disagreeing with him. I know Davey isn't saying that lol. But like I just said, I'm just bewildered at the whole "Kovacic isn't Michael Essien" argument. As soon as Essien lost his pace he started to become a very limited player, this was all at the age of 28, he was a shadow of the player post 2010. So yes, Kovacic is the superior footballer by quite a distance, why does he need to be the Bison? Why does he need to be more physical? And why aren't people who are bringing this up not taking into account that he's 25 years old and still has a lot of potential, already he's getting written off on the notion that "Well he's not on Frank Lampards level is he"... Like good grief... 

Got it and thought that might be the case :). As a fellow “fanboy”, I agree with all the rest. 

6 hours ago, Vagabond said:

He's no academy player. Look at Mount, Tammy, RLC and CHO... all world class already or close to it according to our fanbase. Until they play against actual world class players, then it's time for all kinds of excuses.

No one is calling these players world class. Maybe fans just want to give them an opportunity to improve seeing as Mount, Abraham and CHO are 20, 22, and 19 respectively. And with the right nurturing and given a chance could be top drawer players in a few years.

Ruben has just turned 24 and was one of our stand out players last season. He was probably our best midfielder.

Saying Mount and Tammy just aren't good enough is way too harsh, especially considering their age. We need to support our young players. I actually think anyone criticising Mount and Abraham this season is a disgrace.

1 hour ago, DannyVblue said:

No one is calling these players world class. Maybe fans just want to give them an opportunity to improve seeing as Mount, Abraham and CHO are 20, 22, and 19 respectively. And with the right nurturing and given a chance could be top drawer players in a few years.

Ruben has just turned 24 and was one of our stand out players last season. He was probably our best midfielder.

Saying Mount and Tammy just aren't good enough is way too harsh, especially considering their age. We need to support our young players. I actually think anyone criticising Mount and Abraham this season is a disgrace.

I definitely heard and read people calling RLC world class last season and many fans attributing a world class future to the other players I mentioned (+ Reece James) like it was just a question of time instead of wishful thinking. It isn't.

Just how realistic is it to expect 4 or more academy players with just a few years between them to become world class or even come close to it? The only club I know of in somewhat recent history is Barcelona with Messi, Iniesta, Busquets and maybe Piquet, but they had club legends like Xavi and Puyol playing along side them, a football phenomenon in Messi and even they bought strikers like Eto'o, Henry and Ibrahimovic to achieve results.

My biggest concern with the club and our fanbase is that we settle for lesser players because they are "our kids". I don't want us to become Arsenal where you have to be proud of and content with other things than titles because you can't win any.

44 minutes ago, Vagabond said:

I definitely heard and read people calling RLC world class last season and many fans attributing a world class future to the other players I mentioned (+ Reece James) like it was just a question of time instead of wishful thinking. It isn't.

Just how realistic is it to expect 4 or more academy players with just a few years between them to become world class or even come close to it? The only club I know of in somewhat recent history is Barcelona with Messi, Iniesta, Busquets and maybe Piquet, but they had club legends like Xavi and Puyol playing along side them, a football phenomenon in Messi and even they bought strikers like Eto'o, Henry and Ibrahimovic to achieve results.

My biggest concern with the club and our fanbase is that we settle for lesser players because they are "our kids". I don't want us to become Arsenal where you have to be proud of and content with other things than titles because you can't win any.

No team on the planet has a full 11 of World class players, that is unless your bar for WC criteria is  set low. If your lucky you may have 3-4 in a team. I would settle for one WC player back at Chelsea at the moment. I will also settle for 4-5 good honest chelsea youth players getting a chance to see how high they can reach.

3 hours ago, Vagabond said:

I definitely heard and read people calling RLC world class last season and many fans attributing a world class future to the other players I mentioned (+ Reece James) like it was just a question of time instead of wishful thinking. It isn't.

Just how realistic is it to expect 4 or more academy players with just a few years between them to become world class or even come close to it? The only club I know of in somewhat recent history is Barcelona with Messi, Iniesta, Busquets and maybe Piquet, but they had club legends like Xavi and Puyol playing along side them, a football phenomenon in Messi and even they bought strikers like Eto'o, Henry and Ibrahimovic to achieve results.

My biggest concern with the club and our fanbase is that we settle for lesser players because they are "our kids". I don't want us to become Arsenal where you have to be proud of and content with other things than titles because you can't win any.

They're elite prospects who won every trophy that walked at youth level, ofcourse they will get a bit of patience in their first full season as Chelsea players (and in most cases their first full season in a major league).

Regarding the Arsenal comparison, the reason Arsenal became Arsenal so to speak is because they didn't adapt their expectations, it was the same target when Cesc, RVP, Nasri were in their peak as it was they were kids. I think it's safe to say that won't happen here given who the owner is.

4 hours ago, coco said:

No team on the planet has a full 11 of World class players, that is unless your bar for WC criteria is  set low. If your lucky you may have 3-4 in a team. I would settle for one WC player back at Chelsea at the moment. I will also settle for 4-5 good honest chelsea youth players getting a chance to see how high they can reach.

Fair enough. Due to the ban we didn't have much of a choice, after the loss of Hazard (and Courtois) we only have Kanté, injured for a third of the season. The lads are performing admirably and showing glimpses, but the truth is that all of them still need years to develop and that we need to buy big to compete with the best. I never expected Mount, Tammy or Christensen to carry us to a title, so I'd like to have at least one or two more players I can expect that from.

@Argo 

I haven't lost my patience. They still have many games to prove themselves, it should be obvious that Frank will remodel our squad in the summer window depending on their performance. I suspect some won't play as often as they have this season. I'm not very romantic, I know. I'm sorry.

Edited February 28, 20206 yr by Vagabond

1 hour ago, Argo said:

They're elite prospects who won every trophy that walked at youth level, ofcourse they will get a bit of patience in their first full season as Chelsea players (and in most cases their first full season in a major league).

Regarding the Arsenal comparison, the reason Arsenal became Arsenal so to speak is because they didn't adapt their expectations, it was the same target when Cesc, RVP, Nasri were in their peak as it was they were kids. I think it's safe to say that won't happen here given who the owner is.

Fact is we have some of the best young players in the league. Tomori, Mount, Tammy, Ampadu, CHO already played for the first national team of England, Wales and James is in the U21 team but it's only a matter of time that he will get into the senior team as well the man is a beast just needs to mark opponents better so it's not even close to having lesser Arsenal players, Christensen has been a part of the academy as well and he's a standard for Denmark. 

When we didn't have patience, we sold De Bruyne who by all means just wanted the ball and was young but very hungry to become a leader and to take responsibility but look at him now, 8 goals 16 assists in the league and just recently got a goal and assists in CL against Real Madrid. 

The lesser players we signed are these rejects that couldn't play in their former club, Kovacic is one of them and that's a cold hard fact. When we see our own players that used to be recognized as among the best in the league the last one was M. Alonso 2016/17, prior to that we had D. Luiz, Cahill, Kante, Hazard, Ivanovic, Terry, Matic, D. Costa as the part of the PFA team of the year, we were never close to being like Arsenal.

8 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Fact is we have some of the best young players in the league. Tomori, Mount, Tammy, Ampadu, CHO already played for the first national team of England, Wales and James is in the U21 team but it's only a matter of time that he will get into the senior team as well the man is a beast just needs to mark opponents better so it's not even close to having lesser Arsenal players, Christensen has been a part of the academy as well and he's a standard for Denmark. 

When we didn't have patience, we sold De Bruyne who by all means just wanted the ball and was young but very hungry to become a leader and to take responsibility but look at him now, 8 goals 16 assists in the league and just recently got a goal and assists in CL against Real Madrid. 

The lesser players we signed are these rejects that couldn't play in their former club, Kovacic is one of them and that's a cold hard fact. When we see our own players that used to be recognized as among the best in the league the last one was M. Alonso 2016/17, prior to that we had D. Luiz, Cahill, Kante, Hazard, Ivanovic, Terry, Matic, D. Costa as the part of the PFA team of the year, we were never close to being like Arsenal.

When we sold de Bruyne, it was a mistake arising from impatience, but when Real sold Kovacic to us it was due to the ‘cold hard fact’ that he’s a reject? Do you not think maybe Real made a mistake too, showing precisely the same lack of patience, typical of big clubs, that we showed with de Bruyne? Kovacic would now sell for more than what Real sold him to us, implying it was indeed an error on their part. I think he would be in contention for a starting place if he were still there, or would certainly be playing more than he did before.

19 minutes ago, Dean said:

When we sold de Bruyne, it was a mistake arising from impatience, but when Real sold Kovacic to us it was due to the ‘cold hard fact’ that he’s a reject? Do you not think maybe Real made a mistake too, showing precisely the same lack of patience, typical of big clubs, that we showed with de Bruyne? Kovacic would now sell for more than what Real sold him to us, implying it was indeed an error on their part. I think he would be in contention for a starting place if he were still there, or would certainly be playing more than he did before.

There isn't any indication that selling Kovacic was a mistake, he isn't near De Bruyne's level and they have this new guy Valverde that is younger and a good prospect. But I don't think that they as a club are like that anyway, they sold Ronaldo with the attitude that he can be replaced, they don't care, if lets say next season Kovacic becomes the best player in our league, Real Madrid wouldn't even flinch about it, De Bruyne was really at Chelsea for about 2 full seasons maybe less while Kovacic was double as much in Real Madrid so they will always point out that he simply didn't show enough during 3-4 seasons.

Real Madrid showed more patience with Morata, Kovacic till the point they realized they simply aren't good enough, for them, but we bought those two thinking that they will magically become better. Though at this point it's safe to say that Kovacic has been a good signing so he is going to pay off for us in the long run, he's not in his prime yet (no matter what people say he simply isn't he can and will be better) so while at the time when we signed Kovacic he was just looking to move on after not being capable of settling in Real Madrid, he has become a standard player that I dare to say fits in any combination for us.

The point I'm making is that we have changed our line of thinking in order to not make the same mistakes from the past, it has little to do with Kovacic he proved himself here IMO but in general it has been the opposite of the rule in recent times, Morata didn't work out for example so this way of getting players that weren't good enough somewhere else has more risks that usual signings. That may bring the question about Kepa though as he doesn't fit in this he was playing in La Liga, but I won't go into that I simply don't know what to think, he should have been better.

Again the point is, not giving the youth any chances and signing mediocre players instead doesn't work, our academy has been the best for a long time, even if half of the players I mentioned turn out to be good it's still a big statement and a win for the club and by the looks of it it's going in that direction.
The club used to attract players by money only, but we don't have to do that anymore, we are the best team in London and among the best clubs in the league now. Before, getting a player like Pedro that couldn't make it in Barcelona was a good signing, now we don't need to think in that way, we don't need to be just opportunistic anymore, we have won a lot and we can offer a lot, we are an attractive club, we want to play attractive football now and there are no reasons why a good player should choose signing for our rivals or wannabe clubs like Arsenal or Spurs instead of us.

So I'm saying that having patience with our youth is a good thing and if ManUtd had a good generation and Barcelona had a good generation why wouldn't this one be our time?
At the same time I'm also saying that I'm hoping that in the summer we will also sign a proper top player, not someone that simply wants to move somewhere because he can't make it in his current club, at this point we should simply just do it since we haven't spent big money in a while no?

For me Kovacic has been our best player this season and has stepped up from last season. He doesn’t score but his passing and interventions are beginning to be something we rely. As others have stated his story is not over yet and if managed correctly he will only get better. Particularly in the first half he was our only player who looked at a higher level against Bayern. In many ways he remains an unsung hero.

4 hours ago, Gol15 said:

There isn't any indication that selling Kovacic was a mistake, he isn't near De Bruyne's level and they have this new guy Valverde that is younger and a good prospect. But I don't think that they as a club are like that anyway, they sold Ronaldo with the attitude that he can be replaced, they don't care, if lets say next season Kovacic becomes the best player in our league, Real Madrid wouldn't even flinch about it, De Bruyne was really at Chelsea for about 2 full seasons maybe less while Kovacic was double as much in Real Madrid so they will always point out that he simply didn't show enough during 3-4 seasons.

Real Madrid showed more patience with Morata, Kovacic till the point they realized they simply aren't good enough, for them, but we bought those two thinking that they will magically become better. Though at this point it's safe to say that Kovacic has been a good signing so he is going to pay off for us in the long run, he's not in his prime yet (no matter what people say he simply isn't he can and will be better) so while at the time when we signed Kovacic he was just looking to move on after not being capable of settling in Real Madrid, he has become a standard player that I dare to say fits in any combination for us.

The point I'm making is that we have changed our line of thinking in order to not make the same mistakes from the past, it has little to do with Kovacic he proved himself here IMO but in general it has been the opposite of the rule in recent times, Morata didn't work out for example so this way of getting players that weren't good enough somewhere else has more risks that usual signings. That may bring the question about Kepa though as he doesn't fit in this he was playing in La Liga, but I won't go into that I simply don't know what to think, he should have been better.

Again the point is, not giving the youth any chances and signing mediocre players instead doesn't work, our academy has been the best for a long time, even if half of the players I mentioned turn out to be good it's still a big statement and a win for the club and by the looks of it it's going in that direction.
The club used to attract players by money only, but we don't have to do that anymore, we are the best team in London and among the best clubs in the league now. Before, getting a player like Pedro that couldn't make it in Barcelona was a good signing, now we don't need to think in that way, we don't need to be just opportunistic anymore, we have won a lot and we can offer a lot, we are an attractive club, we want to play attractive football now and there are no reasons why a good player should choose signing for our rivals or wannabe clubs like Arsenal or Spurs instead of us.

So I'm saying that having patience with our youth is a good thing and if ManUtd had a good generation and Barcelona had a good generation why wouldn't this one be our time?
At the same time I'm also saying that I'm hoping that in the summer we will also sign a proper top player, not someone that simply wants to move somewhere because he can't make it in his current club, at this point we should simply just do it since we haven't spent big money in a while no?

Dunno. Have heard that a lot of real fans didn’t want to sell him and felt vindicated in that view this season. Wouldn’t be surprised to see some of the big guns coming with bids this summer. 

20 minutes ago, Dean said:

Dunno. Have heard that a lot of real fans didn’t want to sell him and felt vindicated in that view this season. Wouldn’t be surprised to see some of the big guns coming with bids this summer. 

Real didn't want to sell Kovacic either, but it's part of their policy to let players leave if they want to. At least I don't remember a single player that wanted to leave and had to stay. They wanted to keep Christiano too but let him go despite being one of their key players.

Of course RM can only do that because 99% of players will jump at the opportunity to sign for them and they won't have a problem attracting top talent.

Are in agreement that Mateo is Chelsea Player of The Year?
Here is a video of some of Mateo's handiwork if you need convincing
LDN (@LDNFootbalI) Tweeted:
Chelsea’s 2019/20 Player of the Season, and also severely underrated last season, Mateo Kovačić.

He`s my first choice for player of the season, he has been outstanding at times and very good the majority of games. Considering most people weren't sure about signing him he really has stood up for Frank.

100%. My favourite player to watch with the ball at his feet since Hazard left.

Obviously Tammy carried us along with Mount up till the point the season stopped, without them we would be terrible and much lower on the table, I guess somewhere around Arsenal...So they have been a blessing this season, Tammy is my player of the season because of that.

Kovacic has no end product and Jorginho makes him look good half of the time.

For the love of god nobody engage with it! Let’s not open that f**king can of worms again 

Many Happy Returns to him as he's 26 years old today.

On 27/04/2020 at 19:22, Munkworth said:

For the love of god nobody engage with it! Let’s not open that f**king can of worms again 

You're all lucky I never seen it 😒

6 hours ago, Slojo said:

You're all lucky I never seen it 😒

Maybe there is a God...

37 minutes ago, Munkworth said:

Maybe there is a God...

You sure? 

@Gol15 

You mad bro? 

20 minutes ago, Slojo said:

You sure? 

@Gol15 

You mad bro? 

You bastard. 

Edited May 8, 20206 yr by Munkworth