6 hours ago, Boston Blue said:

You've completely missed the point and context of the conversation.  My comment that you keep replying to had absolutely nothing to do with when we can buy or register players.  

You’re pretty much one of those people who will not just put his hands up and say my mistake.

you said no point in speaking the ban if it will allow us to do business in winter and not summer ass all big business is fine in summer.

Your point for the third time now of saying the same thing is redundant, if we appeal and get a one window ban we can do our signings now in summer and then register in winter.

Now try and repackage that how you want you were wrong, getting reduced to one window isn’t pointless as you said here: 

12 hours ago, WalterWhiteCFC said:

The point you missed is that having the winter window be the window??? th?at we are allowed to do business in does not provide us ?with enough opportunity to warrant an appeal.??

 It does because we can “do business” NOW appeal or not the appeal allows is to REGISTER in the winter window not “do business” 

7 hours ago, mwblue10 said:

I'm fairly certain we had to register Pulisic before we could loan him back to Dortmund.  The type of transfer you are referring to would be like the Naby Keita to Liverpool transfer, where they agreed to the deal and then he just played one more year at Leipzig before moving, which wasn't a loan.

Yes you can sign a player and register him after an agreed period you could well be right in pulisics case however I’d think as he was already at Dortmund not moving to us then being loaned to a third club the loan may have been the term used but I don’t think we ever registered him, could bery well be wrong.

I also recall vaguely that when it came to costa there was some talk of selling in one window but him not moving until the next.

In all cases if our appeal resulted in a one window ban there are options to sign players in the summer window with an agreement of them moving in January which would drastically reduce the impact on our season I would hope.

It may even suit some clubs as they get the funds or part of them now to add to their own kitty and still get to use the player, who would pay the wages would be up for negotiation I would assume, depending on whether he was a key player or surplus’s to requirements.  

I rven beieuve we can sign players and have them train with us until jan which could be an option if we buy a recovering player, get him at a good price and use the time to get him back to fitness.

Many options if we can get the one window ban which is why it’s not pointless as others suggested rather it would be a very favourable outcome in context. 

14 minutes ago, WalterWhiteCFC said:

You’re pretty much one of those people who will not just put his hands up and say my mistake.

you said no point in speaking the ban if it will allow us to do business in winter and not summer ass all big business is fine in summer.

Your point for the third time now of saying the same thing is redundant, if we appeal and get a one window ban we can do our signings now in summer and then register in winter.

Now try and repackage that how you want you were wrong, getting reduced to one window isn’t pointless as you said here: 

 It does because we can “do business” NOW appeal or not the appeal allows is to REGISTER in the winter window not “do business” 

Not that I think I should explain it to someone who has a comprehension problem...…..

The  point was that if the appeals process took so long that we would find out that the ban was delayed late in the summer window, that would mean that (essentially) that the winter window would be the window where we'd be allowed to buy.  I was illustrating that the winter window would not help us since there is not a lot of significant business to be done in the winter window.  If this was to be the case, we'd be better off serving the ban starting in this summer window so we could buy next summer.  

We cannot buy players now.  We have a transfer ban.  If we decide to appeal (and there is no confirmation that we have appealed, or have not appealed) there is a chance, based on precedence, that the ban could be delayed while our appeal is heard.  

What I misunderstood, was our ability to buy and loan the player back to the club we bought from, a la Pulisic.  I based this on an article I read (I cannot remember where) that said it might be an advantage for us to be able to do that because a club may be willing to sell to us a young player over other clubs because they would get to keep that player for an additional season since we could not register them yet.  It appears that this isn't the case.  

Got it?  Read it over and over if you don't.  I've moved on.

We have now appealed to CAS 

i expect to get this ban delayed,so looks like a busy window

https://www.skysports.com/share/11736622

some of our decisions baffle me, if we were going to do this all along - why wait until now?

Lol, looks like my thread was incredibly poorly timed.

no mention of us asking for ban to be frozen though

30 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

https://www.skysports.com/share/11736622

some of our decisions baffle me, if we were going to do this all along - why wait until now?

Because we had to wait for the written reasons as to why FIFA turned  down our appeal. The public announcement on the 8th May in itself wasn’t the start date for the 21 day window indeed that window only starts in the day the written report is sent.

 

2 minutes ago, terraloon said:

Because we had to wait for the written reasons as to why FIFA turned  down our appeal. The public announcement on the 8th May in itself wasn’t the start date for the 21 day window indeed that window only starts in the day the written report is sent.

So, we’re assuming we’ve just received these then? Is that correct?

 

I just hadn’t seen any of the chelsea ‘ITK’ guys on twitter making any comments to indicate that we’d received the written reasons.

Just now, EdinburghBlue said:

So, we’re assuming we’ve just received these then? Is that correct?

 

I just hadn’t seen any of the chelsea ‘ITK’ guys on twitter making any comments to indicate that we’d received the written reasons.

As if ITK's really are super reliable as a source of info. Now that we've appealed, it's safe to say that the club have finally received the reasoning behind FIFA turning down our appeal

Still confused though... While we are in the middle of appealing, can we still sign players? Or are we still banned until a decision has been made.

27 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

https://www.skysports.com/share/11736622

some of our decisions baffle me, if we were going to do this all along - why wait until now?

I thought we had done this weeks ago. Litigation is tricky and sometimes it takes a while to get your papers together.

If you do decide to litigate it is best to have your case fully supported and sometimes over supported in order the other side have to take a step back and rethink their position or at least think about how they would want to proceed. Either way FIFA will want to put as much evidence as possible in front of the judge/arbitrator and this may require more time than they had expected. This being the case, and with Chelsea slightly delaying their appeal, FIFA may ask the Judge/arbitrator for more time to get their case together. If this happens Chelsea could get a temporary reprieve from the ban and be able to sign players this window. Happy days. On the other hand FIFA may say lets go now, in which case we may not get the result of the appeal until, as I understand it, just before the end of this window.

I have read that this type of tactic worked for Barcelona (I think) and that they got a chance to register players for an extra window before their ban. I have also read that FIFA are fully prepared for this type of move by Chelsea.

Lets see how this pans out.

3 minutes ago, Deino said:

As if ITK's really are super reliable as a source of info. Now that we've appealed, it's safe to say that the club have finally received the reasoning behind FIFA turning down our appeal

Of course, but by the same token & playing devils advocate - do you have any evidence that we didn’t have them already?

Seems odd to be negotiating a contract extension with Willian before finding out the result of the appeal.

If we're successful surely that's one of the positions we should be upgrading.  

2 minutes ago, Andy North said:

I thought we had done this weeks ago. Litigation is tricky and sometimes it takes a while to get your papers together.

If you do decide to litigate it is best to have your case fully supported and sometimes over supported in order the other side have to take a step back and rethink their position or at least think about how they would want to proceed. Either way FIFA will want to put as much evidence as possible in front of the judge/arbitrator and this may require more time than they had expected. This being the case, and with Chelsea slightly delaying their appeal, FIFA may ask the Judge/arbitrator for more time to get their case together. If this happens Chelsea could get a temporary reprieve from the ban and be able to sign players this window. Happy days. On the other hand FIFA may say lets go now, in which case we may not get the result of the appeal until, as I understand it, just before the end of this window.

I have read that this type of tactic worked for Barcelona (I think) and that they got a chance to register players for an extra window before their ban. I have also read that FIFA are fully prepared for this type of move by Chelsea.

Lets see how this pans out.

Thanks - that makes sense and is probably as good an explanation as I could have asked for. I guess we’ll just need to see how this pans out. 

 

The reason i ask is I was curious if we were going to take the hit on the ban and then the rumours of Sarri wanting to be hacked etc, if maybe the club have decided that they want him to stay that extra year and had submitted an appeal. All conjecture of course but your explanation would make sense.

2 minutes ago, 2211 said:

Seems odd to be negotiating a contract extension with Willian before finding out the result of the appeal.

If we're successful surely that's one of the positions we should be upgrading.  

Either way it’ll increase his value so the club will probably view it as a win-win.

11 hours ago, Boston Blue said:

Not that I think I should explain it to someone who has a comprehension problem...…..

The  point was that if the appeals process took so long that we would find out that the ban was delayed late in the summer window, that would mean that (essentially) that the winter window would be the window where we'd be allowed to buy.  I was illustrating that the winter window would not help us since there is not a lot of significant business to be done in the winter window.  If this was to be the case, we'd be better off serving the ban starting in this summer window so we could buy next summer.  

We cannot buy players now.  We have a transfer ban.  If we decide to appeal (and there is no confirmation that we have appealed, or have not appealed) there is a chance, based on precedence, that the ban could be delayed while our appeal is heard.  

What I misunderstood, was our ability to buy and loan the player back to the club we bought from, a la Pulisic.  I based this on an article I read (I cannot remember where) that said it might be an advantage for us to be able to do that because a club may be willing to sell to us a young player over other clubs because they would get to keep that player for an additional season since we could not register them yet.  It appears that this isn't the case.  

Got it?  Read it over and over if you don't.  I've moved on.

The dilemma you encounter if you buy a player , leave them at their old club and don’t register them is that you are open to a charge of third party ownership and influence and that in itself is potentially contrary to  one of the subsections of Article 19 and ironically FIFAs case against us contains two such charges.

Normally the  process is you buy a player and them register them. If you then loan them out they go on what is called a temporary registration that registration normally ends at the end of the loan period there are potentially two ways that player can stay at the club they are loaned if there is a transfer ban. 

In theory the longest time you can loan a player for is one season. We all know clubs agree to loan players for longer but all that happens before the end of June you just extend the temporary registration but there is also a little tweak in the rules that allows you to at any time (prior to 30/6) buy the loaned player outright.

What you can do is much like a Liverpool did is enter into an agreement with a club to buy a player that’s rare because there are pitfalls in English law in engaging in pre contract agreements of any sort because it ties you to the terms of that agreement irrespective of what develops post signing.

The only other thing you can do is buy players and keep them on the sidelines

12 minutes ago, ENygma said:

Still confused though... While we are in the middle of appealing, can we still sign players? Or are we still banned until a decision has been made.

The appeal in itself isn’t any guarantee that the ban will be suspended.

There would need to be a separate application to “ stay “the ban. If we have made an application to do just that I suspect that, based on past cases, the application to stay would only take a day or so to rule on.

Earlier in the thread Matt Law who is a journalist was quoted and he seems to think there is a threat of the ban being increased if we make a frivolous appeal but the fact that we said we would appeal and indeed it’s been confirmed that we have suggests to me that concern has been dismissed because it’s the appeal that would be deemed frivolous and not the potential stay of sanctions

11 hours ago, Boston Blue said:

Not that I think I should explain it to someone who has a comprehension problem...…..

The  point was that if the appeals process took so long that we would find out that the ban was delayed late in the summer window, that would mean that (essentially) that the winter window would be the window where we'd be allowed to buy.  I was illustrating that the winter window would not help us since there is not a lot of significant business to be done in the winter window.  If this was to be the case, we'd be better off serving the ban starting in this summer window so we could buy next summer.  

We cannot buy players now.  We have a transfer ban.  If we decide to appeal (and there is no confirmation that we have appealed, or have not appealed) there is a chance, based on precedence, that the ban could be delayed while our appeal is heard.  

What I misunderstood, was our ability to buy and loan the player back to the club we bought from, a la Pulisic.  I based this on an article I read (I cannot remember where) that said it might be an advantage for us to be able to do that because a club may be willing to sell to us a young player over other clubs because they would get to keep that player for an additional season since we could not register them yet.  It appears that this isn't the case.  

Got it?  Read it over and over if you don't.  I've moved on.

As much as it pains me to say it, Walter is right. We can buy players now but we cannot register them to play.

We can agree a fee and a transfer date for when we can register players again or we can buy them now and have them train at Cobham until we can register them. 

We cannot buy anyone and loan them back out because they have to be registered to play with their parent club (us) before they can be loaned. 

16 minutes ago, Andy North said:

I thought we had done this weeks ago. Litigation is tricky and sometimes it takes a while to get your papers together.

If you do decide to litigate it is best to have your case fully supported and sometimes over supported in order the other side have to take a step back and rethink their position or at least think about how they would want to proceed. Either way FIFA will want to put as much evidence as possible in front of the judge/arbitrator and this may require more time than they had expected. This being the case, and with Chelsea slightly delaying their appeal, FIFA may ask the Judge/arbitrator for more time to get their case together. If this happens Chelsea could get a temporary reprieve from the ban and be able to sign players this window. Happy days. On the other hand FIFA may say lets go now, in which case we may not get the result of the appeal until, as I understand it, just before the end of this window.

I have read that this type of tactic worked for Barcelona (I think) and that they got a chance to register players for an extra window before their ban. I have also read that FIFA are fully prepared for this type of move by Chelsea.

Lets see how this pans out.

CAS and their process is far from streamlined and there will probably be a lot of submissions and counter submissions before they will want to rule on the matter.

Strangely one of the first things that will have to be agree is which language the matter will be used.

 

22 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Of course, but by the same token & playing devils advocate - do you have any evidence that we didn’t have them already?

Sorry but the appeal in itself doesn’t mean we can sign players in this window. We have to get CAS to agree to suspending the ban

13 minutes ago, terraloon said:

CAS and their process is far from streamlined and there will probably be a lot of submissions and counter submissions before they will want to rule on the matter.

Strangely one of the first things that will have to be agree is which language the matter will be used.

 

I actually checked your earlier response saying the delay was because Chelsea had to wait for FIFA's written reasons for turning down the appeal and you may be correct. I haven't seen any reports of when Chelsea received FIFA's written reasons but suspect they would have been available shortly after the appeal was refused. I don't know when. Having said that CAS has now registered the new appeal nearly a month after FIFA turned down Chelsea's appeal. Things move slowly when the lawyers and arbitrators get involved. They love to slow things down so they can make as much money as possible.

Hopefully they slow it down some more and Chelsea get a stay of execution.

We've not formally asked CAS to postpone our transfer ban but would I be right in thinking that CAS could do that without being asked? 

2 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

We've not formally asked CAS to postpone our transfer ban but would I be right in thinking that CAS could do that without being asked? 

No there has to be a separate application at this point. 

1 minute ago, terraloon said:

No there has to be a separate application at this point. 

So we're taking the ban on the chin basically and the appeal is essentially to save face and a means of avoiding the admitting guilt? 

This is all very confusing.