18 minutes ago, cfr95 said:

I would argue against this point, I can't think of many games over the past few seasons we have won despite Mason, or big games we have done exceptionally well in without him.

I'm sure some exist, I can't think of them right now though.


Besides, I think perhaps there's a conflation taking place here. In my opinion a player can be a "winner" without being a "match winner". If that makes sense?

Hazard was a match winner. Whereas, Ballack was a winner. Drogba was arguably both.

(On the flip side, Harry Kane is a match winner, but he isn't a winner.)

 

I don't want this to devolve into an argument about the nitty-gritty nature of football platitudes, that's just how I read the initial message and your reply to it.
If your overarching point is that you don't think Mount is (or will be) good enough for this new Chelsea side that's being built, then fair enough, you might be right. I think he is, but then again I thought we were going to lose our last 3 games so what do I know?

Mount is a winner, he's won us games... He's won all the trophies except the league... Some people just don't like winners. 

33 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

The point is, the poster I was replying to was painting Mount as some sort of elite winner, so personally I find it interesting that the team's ability to collect points falls off when he plays, which is surely contrary to the influence you would expect ?

We haven't competed domestically for several seasons because we have had a side full of players, who while they are "good", are not at the level required to win titles. Mount is one of those. No shame in it, but we are in a different world now, and there are going to be casualties in the squad, some of whom are popular with the fans. Like Mount ... 

Name a player as young as Mason Mount who has won what he has who isn't at Chelsea? 

Just now, olderschoolcfc said:

Name a player as young as Mason Mount who has won what he has who isn't at Chelsea? 

What do you mean by this?

 

Just now, Sconnie Blue said:

What do you mean by this?

 

Nobody knows what he means, but it's provocative! It gets the people going!

16 minutes ago, olderschoolcfc said:

He's won all the trophies except the league... 

I mean by all means defend Mount, but you're not helping yourself (or anyone in the same side as you) by posting such blatant misinformation.

15 minutes ago, olderschoolcfc said:

Mount is a winner, he's won us games... He's won all the trophies except the league... Some people just don't like winners. 

This blatantly isn't true, so pointless to have any further dialogue with you. Have a good afternoon !

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/mason-mount/erfolge/spieler/346483

Who else has won this lot by the age of 24? Come on... you want ship of him fine, but clubs above us in the league are looking at him and he'll fetch a price of 70 million quid... there is a reason they're looking for a player like Mount and there's a reason why CFC want to tie him down to a new deal. (its because he's a very, very good player) 

 

10 minutes ago, olderschoolcfc said:

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/mason-mount/erfolge/spieler/346483

Who else has won this lot by the age of 24? Come on... you want ship of him fine, but clubs above us in the league are looking at him and he'll fetch a price of 70 million quid... there is a reason they're looking for a player like Mount and there's a reason why CFC want to tie him down to a new deal. (its because he's a very, very good player) 

 

Wheres the FA Cup and League Cup that you reliably informed us he won?

1 hour ago, Sexyfootball said:

Well OK , let's look at the starting XIs that have done the business in the last 3 games.

vs Leeds :  6 players out of 11 that are Boehly signings (Badiashile, Koulibaly, Fofana, Fernandez, Sterling, Felix)

vs Dortmund : 6 players out of the 11 that are Boehly signings (Cucurella, Koulibaly, Fofana, Fernandez, Sterling, Felix)

vs Leicester : again 6 players out of the 11 that are Boehly signings (Cucurella, Koulibaly, Fofana, Fernandez, Mudryk, Felix)

 

This isn't a case of players bought for tomorrow (as "talent"). This is over half the team from players signed by Boehly who are good enough to start NOW ahead of the RA legacy squad ... 

The direction we are headed is pretty clear, don't you think ?

Yes and where are we in the league with these signings

2 minutes ago, Robertofthegiz said:

Yes and where are we in the league with these signings

The direction is clear indeed but we don't have to like it one bit.

 

14 minutes ago, Robertofthegiz said:

Yes and where are we in the league with these signings

Lower than we could be with a better manager ?  

"It's a process" 

"Long term project"

etc etc 🙂 

59 minutes ago, Argo said:

Wheres the FA Cup and League Cup that you reliably informed us he won?

Sorry, Was a bit fuzzy this morning... My bad - Point stands though, who else at the age of 24 has won what Mason has. Please feel free to take some time, think of a suitable answer and do get back to us here. 😉

 

1 hour ago, olderschoolcfc said:

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/mason-mount/erfolge/spieler/346483

Who else has won this lot by the age of 24? Come on... you want ship of him fine, but clubs above us in the league are looking at him and he'll fetch a price of 70 million quid... there is a reason they're looking for a player like Mount and there's a reason why CFC want to tie him down to a new deal. (its because he's a very, very good player) 

 

He's also played a big role in costing us 2 domestic cup finals in that time too, missing sitters and missing penalties.

Mount is an alright player, but I'd definitely stop short of calling him a very very good player. I wouldn't be gutted if he stays but I also wouldn't be gutted if he leaves, I don't think he's good enough to be a starter for us let's put it that way.

he is a normal player to have as a squad role

no way he can be start all weeks and hope he provide a good performances to win a epl for ex 

that type of role is destinated to a world class or almost world class players 

remember for exame our 09/10 title run. remember what lamaprd archieve that season and how he performed? 

well this is the type of players and the type of quality we need to step forward in epl 

no way mount is capable of that

21 minutes ago, olderschoolcfc said:

Sorry, Was a bit fuzzy this morning... My bad - Point stands though, who else at the age of 24 has won what Mason has. Please feel free to take some time, think of a suitable answer and do get back to us here. 😉

 

Just in our squad alone Enzo, James, Kovacic, Hudson-Odoi.

Select players from other clubs Foden, Vini Jr, Coman, Nani.

1 hour ago, Argo said:

Just in our squad alone Enzo, James, Kovacic, Hudson-Odoi.

Select players from other clubs Foden, Vini Jr, Coman, Nani.

I know you're a fan Argo but come on, he was an unused sub in CL final and it's not looking likely that he'll be winning much in the future!

what is funny is the same people who are praising Kepa for 6 months of premiership level goal keeping (not still top draw in my opinion) are going after mount for a slump period of 6 months. Talking about his worth and wages when he cost us no transfer fees and is one of the lowest paid first team players but are ok with a one of our most expensive signing and his slight uptick in form. I find this quite baffling to be honest.

Whatever is strategy is he may end up regretting not signing what’s on the table

8 hours ago, olderschoolcfc said:

Sorry, Was a bit fuzzy this morning... My bad - Point stands though, who else at the age of 24 has won what Mason has. Please feel free to take some time, think of a suitable answer and do get back to us here. 😉

 

Speaking of records, you forgot Mount has lost a record breaking 6 finals out of 6 at Wembley, quite the feat.

Edited March 15, 20233 yr by Term_X

20 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

Mount has appeared in 128 premier league games, in which we have won 62, drawn 32, and lost 34. 

So we win less than half the PL games he appears in. 

If you extrapolate a 38 game season out of that, when Mount plays we are getting a 64 point season on average, which is rarely good enough for the top 4, let alone the title. 

If we have the goal of getting back on terms with the top sides and actually challenging properly for the title, then he's probably one of the players you'd have to improve on in the starting XI. Boehly has signed up Felix, Mudryk and Sterling (with Nkunku apparently on the way as well) to try and get better performances out of the front 3 where Mount has typically been playing. 

I like Mount, and we all take pleasure in seeing the academy guys turning out for the first team, but I think we have to be realistic about where we are headed, and what role he might play in that.

In terms of your question, Mount for sure is the most successful  of the 15/16 youth squad in terms of his senior career, but he is not competing against them in 2023 ... he's competing against the top talents in World football that Boehly has the money to buy, and keep on buying.  I just don't see Mount as a starter in Boehly's new CFC order ... 

He's clearly doing his bit in a worse team in a stronger league.

Edited March 15, 20233 yr by RIP Mourinho

16 hours ago, Argo said:

Just in our squad alone Enzo, James, Kovacic, Hudson-Odoi.

Select players from other clubs Foden, Vini Jr, Coman, Nani.

All world class players except CHO who played a bit part role in the trophies when Mount was integral. Good company to be keeping. 

50 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

He's clearly doing his bit in a worse team in a stronger league.

Very impressive stats.

53 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

He's clearly doing his bit in a worse team in a stronger league.

It's an interesting comparison, albeit Lampard's 223 include 148 games when he was at West Ham, in season's they finished 5th, 9th, 8th, 10th and 15th, whereas Mount's 128 games are mostly for a Chelsea team competing in the Top 4 (apart form this season of course), plus Mount has been played as a forward in a lot of them, rather than where Lampard played in central midfield.

 

7 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

It's an interesting comparison, albeit Lampard's 223 include 148 games when he was at West Ham, in season's they finished 5th, 9th, 8th, 10th and 15th, whereas Mount's 128 games are mostly for a Chelsea team competing in the Top 4 (apart form this season of course), plus Mount has been played as a forward in a lot of them, rather than where Lampard played in central midfield.

 

What about if you just compare the first 75 (223-148) games of Lamps for Chelsea with the first 75 games of Mount for Chelsea ?

9 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

It's an interesting comparison, albeit Lampard's 223 include 148 games when he was at West Ham, in season's they finished 5th, 9th, 8th, 10th and 15th, whereas Mount's 128 games are mostly for a Chelsea team competing in the Top 4 (apart form this season of course), plus Mount has been played as a forward in a lot of them, rather than where Lampard played in central midfield.

 

First season under Lamps we were under a transfer embargo and lost our best player so was incredible that we got top 4 and Mount was a large part of that. Second season was Lamps meltdown in November where we struggled massively for several months, Mount then helped win us the CL. Third season Mount got most goals and assists for the team. This year he struggled. Lampard early on in his career played very high too with late runs into the box leaving the defensive duties to Maka.