11 hours ago, El regreso said:

I don’t see the fuss we will have more academy products coming through especially if Potter stays. He wants to be the main man and that will never be the case especially under this new ownership he is not the player you build around but I think he wants to be. 
He’s also seen Reece move clear of him especially in terms of importance to the club and for me I would be bricking it if Reece was the one we are struggling with for a new contract. Mounts a good squad player but will be start in any of the top teams around Europe absolutely not. 
 

Recce walks into any top European team instantly!!

Never seen any evidence to show this, we'd be stupid to build the team around one player its too easy to nullify

39 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Never seen any evidence to show this, we'd be stupid to build the team around one player its too easy to nullify

At at basic level though Mount wants to be starting games. 

Do you see him getting that here? 

Do you see him getting that at Liverpool?

I don't see him being one of the first names on the team sheet here. But I do see that at a Liverpool. 

I love the guy, but if I wasn't a Chelsea fan I'd probably be suggesting he's right to move. 

Mount should have signed the deal when Roman was still in charge. Boehly is putting performance related incentives in these contracts which for me is excellent news. 

Think about someone like CHO. He is not doing anything for us nor to Leverkusen and he is on massive wages. We need a new way of handling contracts. 

Mount and his reps are looking at the time before Boehly and think they should be getting much more than is offered.

Anyway Potter just said in the presser he understands Mount as this is the first big deal. Chelsea isn't the same as it was year ago. He needs to feel this goes well. If we can't meet his demands he moves forward and we just have to live with that. I have absolutely no hard feelings towards Mount. 

Would not be too surprised if Mount ends up going to Brighton or even Bournemouth.

He is a South Coast lad and what's the betting he has a South Coast girlfriend that does not want to live in London and certainly not the North. 

21 minutes ago, strider6004 said:

Would not be too surprised if Mount ends up going to Brighton or even Bournemouth.

He is a South Coast lad and what's the betting he has a South Coast girlfriend that does not want to live in London and certainly not the North. 

He won us the CL and has started for Chelsea for 4 years as well as being an England international and wants £200k P/W. He's not going to Brighton or Bournemouth.

People are acting like he wasn't one of the first names on the teamsheet the past 4 years.

1 hour ago, bisright1 said:

At at basic level though Mount wants to be starting games. 

Do you see him getting that here? 

Do you see him getting that at Liverpool?

I don't see him being one of the first names on the team sheet here. But I do see that at a Liverpool. 

I love the guy, but if I wasn't a Chelsea fan I'd probably be suggesting he's right to move. 

Until now my default answer was that I hope he signs on a "reasonable" deal but (and this is probably going to be my most unpopular/controversial opinion since I said we need to replace Frank) I'm starting to think it's getting to best for all parties to part ways terroritry now.

If it's true he's becoming mentally exhausted with the minority of idiots abusing him (abusing not constructively criticising him as they often seem to get defeacto grouped together at times) then it maybe that he could do with a new environment.

For us I feel it's a big risk giving a player who's been badly off form for 18 months a big new deal and I fear given how overplayed he's been (no proper break since 2019) he may be heading to early burnout. Yes people will likely say to me look at Rashford but for him there's the likes of Rooney, Dele Alli, Torres and Oscar who lost their sh*t at a similar stage and not only never recovered but got even worse. 

My main concern with him isn't that he's dropping form per se, it's that he isn't even offering what he's suppose to be elite at anymore and I can with almost surety say he's not the type to do it on purpose (especially not with a contract to play for) which makes it all the more concerning.

He also as you said wants a starter role we may not be able to offer him especially if we stick to this system (which is not speculation, Lampard as good as confirmed he was pissed off whenever he didn't start and that was before he had a body of work at the highest level). So we will likely have to go permanently to a back 4 which will then restrict the two players we should be building around (James and Chilwell).

We also have a player in Gallagher which offers almost the same strengths and weaknesses who has the potential to be at a similar level which also has to be factored into things, his energy off the bench in the recent week has only further highlighted Mount's lack of such in recent times compared to his very best.

That's my current thoughts at this time, now off to take shelter.

2 minutes ago, Argo said:

Until now my default answer was that I hope he signs on a "reasonable" deal but (and this is probably going to be my most unpopular/controversial opinion since I said we need to replace Frank) I'm starting to think it's getting to best for all parties to part ways terroritry now.

If it's true he's becoming mentally exhausted with the minority of idiots abusing him (abusing not constructively criticising him as they often seem to get defeacto grouped together at times) then it maybe that he could do with a new environment.

For us I feel it's a big risk giving a player who's been badly off form for 18 months a big new deal and I fear given how overplayed he's been (no proper break since 2019) he may be heading to early burnout. Yes people will likely say to me look at Rashford but for him there's the likes of Rooney, Dele Alli, Torres and Oscar who lost their sh*t at a similar stage and not only never recovered but got even worse. 

My main concern with him isn't that he's dropping form per se, it's that he isn't even offering what he's suppose to be elite at anymore and I can with almost surety say he's not the type to do it on purpose (especially not with a contract to play for) which makes it all the more concerning.

He also as you said wants a starter role we may not be able to offer him especially if we stick to this system (which is not speculation, Lampard as good as confirmed he was pissed off whenever he didn't start and that was before he had a body of work at the highest level). So we will likely have to go permanently to a back 4 which will then restrict the two players we should be building around (James and Chilwell).

We also have a player in Gallagher which offers almost the same strengths and weaknesses who has the potential to be at a similar level which also has to be factored into things, his energy off the bench in the recent week has only further highlighted Mount's lack of such in recent times compared to his very best.

That's my current thoughts at this time, now off to take shelter.

I don't think this is an unreasonable opinion.

I don't fully agree with it, but it's well reasoned.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Argo said:

We also have a player in Gallagher which offers almost the same strengths and weaknesses

Let's not forget, Gallagher also brings the Hair Factor ™

Re: the online abuse Mount gets, it's a tough one. Obviously it's going to be upsetting and potentially impact your football, then again, if he was less of an online brand, he could just ignore it. Now he's completely within his rights to be active on social media, and I'm sure it greatly increases his worth outside of football, but if it's badly affecting the football, then why not just get off of it? If I was famous, there isn't a chance in hell I'd open myself up to a hoard of cretins on Twitter. 

As to if he stays or not -- again, it's tough. Is he worth more than 200,000 pw? Atm, no. That isn't to say other players being paid more are worth it either. But given we need to offload a lot of attackers already, I can see why the club are playing hardball over a new contract.

 

Ive said before in this thread its all about mason... TBH, I'd be gutted if he leaves as it would represent a break up of the world championship youth winning teams we produced. Just to remind you what a born winner he is, I'll throw some stats out. Trevor Chalobah and Tammy were also part of the team. 

At junior level Mount = born winner

http://thechels.info/wiki/2015-16_UEFA_Youth_League

 

At senior level, from google: "He has won the UEFA Europa League, FA Cup, FA Community Shield and EFL Cup, becoming one of only three players to score in all of the latter three finals." 

 

Mason Mount is a serial WINNER.... He's got big game temperament, he's got skills, he's dreadfully out of form, might not be the new Lampard, but he has a WINNERS mentality and he's one of our own. CHO is on more and that is a scandal given how ineffective he is for us and others, at least offer parity to him 

If you read this Mr chairman, sign him up on his terms because he's as valuable to us as Chiwell, James, Kante. CHO is on more and that is a scandal given how ineffective he is for us and others, at least offer parity.

If Mason reads this, ignore the detractors, naysayers are everywhere and can't be helped. Sign up please... We will absolutely miss you. 

 

Mount is looking like he's going to be a casualty of Boehly's ambition ... whether you class Mason as a central midfielder, central attacking midfield, inside forward, or winger, there are now better starting options ahead of him for just about any formation you can think of. 

I can see him going to Liverpool or Newcastle, or following Tammy and Tomori out to Serie A.

 

2 minutes ago, olderschoolcfc said:

Ive said before in this thread its all about mason... TBH, I'd be gutted if he leaves as it would represent a break up of the world championship youth winning teams we produced. Just to remind you what a born winner he is, I'll throw some stats out. Trevor Chalobah and Tammy were also part of the team. 

At junior level Mount = born winner

http://thechels.info/wiki/2015-16_UEFA_Youth_League

 

Not sure using that as an example is helping your argument much ... Mount didn't make the starting XI once for that team, albeit he is one of only 4 in that squad (with Tammy, Trev and Tomori), who have gone on to do well at the senior level.

Five appearances from the bench. Part of the all winning youth team = winner...

Who has played or is playing better than Mount since moving into the first team at CFC? Please list them... 🙂 

4 minutes ago, olderschoolcfc said:

Five appearances from the bench. Part of the all winning youth team = winner...

Who has played or is playing better than Mount since moving into the first team at CFC? Please list them... 🙂 

Mount has appeared in 128 premier league games, in which we have won 62, drawn 32, and lost 34. 

So we win less than half the PL games he appears in. 

If you extrapolate a 38 game season out of that, when Mount plays we are getting a 64 point season on average, which is rarely good enough for the top 4, let alone the title. 

If we have the goal of getting back on terms with the top sides and actually challenging properly for the title, then he's probably one of the players you'd have to improve on in the starting XI. Boehly has signed up Felix, Mudryk and Sterling (with Nkunku apparently on the way as well) to try and get better performances out of the front 3 where Mount has typically been playing. 

I like Mount, and we all take pleasure in seeing the academy guys turning out for the first team, but I think we have to be realistic about where we are headed, and what role he might play in that.

In terms of your question, Mount for sure is the most successful  of the 15/16 youth squad in terms of his senior career, but he is not competing against them in 2023 ... he's competing against the top talents in World football that Boehly has the money to buy, and keep on buying.  I just don't see Mount as a starter in Boehly's new CFC order ... 

35 minutes ago, olderschoolcfc said:

At senior level, from google: "He has won the UEFA Europa League, FA Cup, FA Community Shield and EFL Cup, becoming one of only three players to score in all of the latter three finals." 

 

 

And on that statement, it has been very widely reported that Mount has been on the losing side in every Wembley final he has played in. He hasn't won the FA Cup or the EFL Cup, but does have Runner-Up medals for both. Chelsea haven't won the Community Shield since 2009, so he hasn't won that either.

4 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

And on that statement, it has been very widely reported that Mount has been on the losing side in every Wembley final he has played in. He hasn't won the FA Cup or the EFL Cup, but does have Runner-Up medals for both. Chelsea haven't won the Community Shield since 2009, so he hasn't won that either.

It's actually Jesse Lingard who that quote applies to 🤣

I wonder who the third player is (I know Drogba is another).

25 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

he's competing against the top talents in World football that Boehly has the money to buy, and keep on buying.  I just don't see Mount as a starter in Boehly's new CFC order ... 

Boehly has only brought talent, so far he has not brought a world class player that’s been an upgrade on the squad left by RA. 
of you believe the likes of Mudryk and Madueke are going to elevate the club to new levels, you must be eating marshmallow pies with rocking horse people. 

2 minutes ago, Robertofthegiz said:

Boehly has only brought talent, so far he has not brought a world class player that’s been an upgrade on the squad left by RA. 
of you believe the likes of Mudryk and Madueke are going to elevate the club to new levels, you must be eating marshmallow pies with rocking horse people. 

Well OK , let's look at the starting XIs that have done the business in the last 3 games.

vs Leeds :  6 players out of 11 that are Boehly signings (Badiashile, Koulibaly, Fofana, Fernandez, Sterling, Felix)

vs Dortmund : 6 players out of the 11 that are Boehly signings (Cucurella, Koulibaly, Fofana, Fernandez, Sterling, Felix)

vs Leicester : again 6 players out of the 11 that are Boehly signings (Cucurella, Koulibaly, Fofana, Fernandez, Mudryk, Felix)

 

This isn't a case of players bought for tomorrow (as "talent"). This is over half the team from players signed by Boehly who are good enough to start NOW ahead of the RA legacy squad ... 

The direction we are headed is pretty clear, don't you think ?

15 minutes ago, Robertofthegiz said:

Boehly has only brought talent, so far he has not brought a world class player that’s been an upgrade on the squad left by RA.  

Enzo, Fofana and Badiashille say hi.

42 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Mount has appeared in 128 premier league games, in which we have won 62, drawn 32, and lost 34. 

So we win less than half the PL games he appears in. 

If you extrapolate a 38 game season out of that, when Mount plays we are getting a 64 point season on average, which is rarely good enough for the top 4, let alone the title.

This is a bit of a pointless way to evaluate a player isn't it?

What was Cahill's PL win % before we signed him? Or Lampard's for that matter.

We haven't had a side capable of challenging domestically for ~5 years now, we've been a cup team. I don't think you can point at our POTY for the past two seasons, the guy who's actually been one of the more consistent performers over the course of a 38 game season, and say he's the reason we haven't been able to compete.

7 minutes ago, cfr95 said:

This is a bit of a pointless way to evaluate a player isn't it?

What was Cahill's PL win % before we signed him? Or Lampard's for that matter.

We haven't had a side capable of challenging domestically for ~5 years now, we've been a cup team. I don't think you can point at our POTY for the past two seasons, the guy who's actually been one of the more consistent performers over the course of a 38 game season, and say he's the reason we haven't been able to compete.

He won POTY those last two seasons because he's a fan favourite, he wasn't our best player. Thiago Silva easily deserved it over him

4 minutes ago, Drogba1 said:

He won POTY those last two seasons because he's a fan favourite, he wasn't our best player. Thiago Silva easily deserved it over him

He deserved it in 20/21 (a few players could have also laid claim but he certainly didn't "rob" it) but yeah last season it should have been Silva by a landslide.

12 minutes ago, cfr95 said:

This is a bit of a pointless way to evaluate a player isn't it?

What was Cahill's PL win % before we signed him? Or Lampard's for that matter.

We haven't had a side capable of challenging domestically for ~5 years now, we've been a cup team. I don't think you can point at our POTY for the past two seasons, the guy who's actually been one of the more consistent performers over the course of a 38 game season, and say he's the reason we haven't been able to compete.

The point is, the poster I was replying to was painting Mount as some sort of elite winner, so personally I find it interesting that the team's ability to collect points falls off when he plays, which is surely contrary to the influence you would expect ?

We haven't competed domestically for several seasons because we have had a side full of players, who while they are "good", are not at the level required to win titles. Mount is one of those. No shame in it, but we are in a different world now, and there are going to be casualties in the squad, some of whom are popular with the fans. Like Mount ... 

2 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

the team's ability to collect points falls off when he plays,

I would argue against this point, I can't think of many games over the past few seasons we have won despite Mason, or big games we have done exceptionally well in without him.

I'm sure some exist, I can't think of them right now though.


Besides, I think perhaps there's a conflation taking place here. In my opinion a player can be a "winner" without being a "match winner". If that makes sense?

Hazard was a match winner. Whereas, Ballack was a winner. Drogba was arguably both.

(On the flip side, Harry Kane is a match winner, but he isn't a winner.)

 

I don't want this to devolve into an argument about the nitty-gritty nature of football platitudes, that's just how I read the initial message and your reply to it.
If your overarching point is that you don't think Mount is (or will be) good enough for this new Chelsea side that's being built, then fair enough, you might be right. I think he is, but then again I thought we were going to lose our last 3 games so what do I know?

1 hour ago, Sexyfootball said:

Mount has appeared in 128 premier league games, in which we have won 62, drawn 32, and lost 34. 

So we win less than half the PL games he appears in. 

If you extrapolate a 38 game season out of that, when Mount plays we are getting a 64 point season on average, which is rarely good enough for the top 4, let alone the title. 

If we have the goal of getting back on terms with the top sides and actually challenging properly for the title, then he's probably one of the players you'd have to improve on in the starting XI. Boehly has signed up Felix, Mudryk and Sterling (with Nkunku apparently on the way as well) to try and get better performances out of the front 3 where Mount has typically been playing. 

I like Mount, and we all take pleasure in seeing the academy guys turning out for the first team, but I think we have to be realistic about where we are headed, and what role he might play in that.

In terms of your question, Mount for sure is the most successful  of the 15/16 youth squad in terms of his senior career, but he is not competing against them in 2023 ... he's competing against the top talents in World football that Boehly has the money to buy, and keep on buying.  I just don't see Mount as a starter in Boehly's new CFC order ... 

Sorry, I stopped taking your post seriously after the word extrapolate. Does your extrapolation take into consideration Loss of form and or injuries? Felix isnt a CFC player yet, Sterling is a top player but still not convinced he's an answer to Chelseas goal scoring problems and Mudryk has yet to inspire. Early days for sure but Mason has delivered consistently for Chelsea. None of the names you have mentioned have so far. 

 

I guess you don't like him for some odd reason.